Leisure battery charging - EHU or external battery charger to condition?

[a900ss]

I have a Hymer A Class, 2010 with an EBL 101 electric unit that charges the leisure batteries when on EHU.

I don’t think the batteries are in tip top condition recently (might be the cold weather) and I wondered if charging the batteries using an external Ctek smart charger has any benefit over using the built-in charger from the EBL101 to condition them or if just plugging into EHU and using the in built charger will deliver the same results.

Thanks.

 

[autorouter]

It depends on what type of batteries you have. I think conditioning is only for flooded lead-acid batteries, not Gel or AGM types. Basically it stirs up the liquid acid electrolyte by fast charging to generate a few bubbles to mix up the possibly stratified liquid. It also equalises all the cell voltages.

I've never noticed it doing much good myself, but then my batteries may not have had that problem.

My 2006 Hymer came with an EBL 101, and the charger worked OK for years. However I had it repaired a couple of times (water spilled on it etc) and eventually gave up on it and installed a Victron BlueSmart IP65 15A charger (similar to a CTEK) for the leisure battery. I have a 5A CTEK charger topping up the starter battery too. They are both permanently installed now, and work fine. But I never enable the conditioning option.

 

[jumar]

It depends on what type of batteries you have. I think conditioning is only for flooded lead-acid batteries, not Gel or AGM types. Basically it stirs up the liquid acid electrolyte by fast charging to generate a few bubbles to mix up the possibly stratified liquid. It also equalises all the cell voltages.

I've never noticed it doing much good myself, but then my batteries may not have had that problem.

My 2006 Hymer came with an EBL 101, and the charger worked OK for years. However I had it repaired a couple of times (water spilled on it etc) and eventually gave up on it and installed a Victron BlueSmart IP65 15A charger (similar to a CTEK) for the leisure battery. I have a 5A CTEK charger topping up the starter battery too. They are both permanently installed now, and work fine. But I never enable the conditioning option.

So your Victron charges your leisure batteries whilst on hook up or just for that extra battery boost...
I assume the ELB 101 is still operational but the charging function is disabled, is this how you use it?

 

[a900ss]

Sorry, I should have said. 2 x Numax LV25MF 100ah each. I think they are sealed lead acid. Not gel or AGM.

My EBL101 charger works fine but I’m not too sure how sophisticated a charger it really is.

 

[autorouter]

So your Victron charges your leisure batteries whilst on hook up or just for that extra battery boost...
I assume the ELB 101 is still operational but the charging function is disabled, is this how you use it?

The Victron 15A charger is permanently connected, so it charges the battery whenever 230V mains is available. The EBL still does all the other functions, like 12V distribution and fusing, and also the split charge relay to charge the 100Ah leisure battery from the alternator when the engine is running.

Admittedly I have another lithium battery bank, equivalent to 600Ah, with a Victron Multiplus inverter/charger that runs all the motorhome mains stuff. There is a 70A B2B charging it from the engine alternator. It can power the Victron 15A charger too, so it turns out that 230V mains is almost always available. If the lithium power runs out, I still have the 100Ah leisure battery powering the habitation stuff through the EBL 101, exactly as the original setup.

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[Jabstatt]

I am a big fan of Ctek and have several of their products. I have successfully reconditioned various types of leadacit batteries, even one which, as leisure battery in the MH was completely dead.

I would disconnect the battery from ass external influences, usually the negative is simpler, and do a few recondition cycles.

Always worked for me.

Tony

 

[a900ss]

Do the batteries need to be disconnected? I was hoping to just connect my CTEK and switch the power on. Always worked in cars for me like that.

I’m always worried the EBL will fail to switch on whenever I turn it off!!!!

 

[Jabstatt]

Try it.

Just trying to remove all possible interfering factors.

Tony

 

[autorouter]

One reason I don't like reconditioning is it applies over 16V to the batteries. Habitation circuits are OK with the usual charging voltages, up to about 14.8V, but over 16V might be a bit too much for some of them. If you make sure you never switch any hab circuits on while reconditioning, that should be OK, but easy to forget I suppose, especially the lights that come on when you open the wardrobe door.

I agree about switching the EBL main switch off. In the ten years I've had this motorhome I think I've switched it off less than five times.

 

[jumar]

The Victron 15A charger is permanently connected, so it charges the battery whenever 230V mains is available. The EBL still does all the other functions, like 12V distribution and fusing, and also the split charge relay to charge the 100Ah leisure battery from the alternator when the engine is running.

Admittedly I have another lithium battery bank, equivalent to 600Ah, with a Victron Multiplus inverter/charger that runs all the motorhome mains stuff. There is a 70A B2B charging it from the engine alternator. It can power the Victron 15A charger too, so it turns out that 230V mains is almost always available. If the lithium power runs out, I still have the 100Ah leisure battery powering the habitation stuff through the EBL 101, exactly as the original setup.

Interesting...therefore if by chance my 400ah of lithium needed a 220v charge..and say I arrived at an aire with electricity available I could charge my batteries via the Victron..
Assuming by just plugging it in to one of the 220v van sockets and connecting via both the red and black Busbars....also assuming I need to disable something in the EBL..like pull a fuse...I currently do not use my EBL as it's not Lithium enabled...

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[AdrianChen]

Sorry, I should have said. 2 x Numax LV25MF 100ah each. I think they are sealed lead acid. Not gel or AGM.

My EBL101 charger works fine but I’m not too sure how sophisticated a charger it really is.

How old are the batteries?

Reconditioning might revive stratified, or perhaps lightly sulphated plates, but age with the effects of ever stronger electrolyte and heavy sulphation as the water evaporates will diminish the capacity permanently, so even if they appear a bit better - you won't be seeing the capacity printed on the sticker.

In which case the EBL charger/ctek will ultimately give the same results....

 

[a900ss]

How old are the batteries?

Reconditioning might revive stratified, or perhaps lightly sulphated plates, but age with the effects of ever stronger electrolyte and heavy sulphation as the water evaporates will diminish the capacity permanently, so even if they appear a bit better - you won't be seeing the capacity printed on the sticker.

In which case the EBL charger/ctek will ultimately give the same results....

I don’t know to be honest.

They aren’t ‘bad’. 2 x 100ah gave me 3 nights (circa 30 hours) running the truma (gas powered of course) and 72 hours of fridge (again, powered by gas). I wasn’t actually in the van over the three days, it was on my mother’s drive over Christmas, we just slept in it.

The batteries were just under 50% after all that which I was a little disappointed with. My old campervan could go ‘off grid’ for much longer with similar batteries (200ah with usable 100ah)

I think when I replace them I’ll go to Gels which I guess a Hymer of that era would have originally come with.

 

[AdrianChen]

I don’t know to be honest.

They aren’t ‘bad’. 2 x 100ah gave me 3 nights (circa 30 hours) running the truma (gas powered of course) and 72 hours of fridge (again, powered by gas). I wasn’t actually in the van over the three days, it was on my mother’s drive over Christmas, we just slept in it.

The batteries were just under 50% after all that which I was a little disappointed with. My old campervan could go ‘off grid’ for much longer with similar batteries (200ah with usable 100ah)

I think when I replace them I’ll go to Gels which I guess a Hymer of that era would have originally come with.

I guess the chargers will need to be reset to gel, unless they weren't changed which wouldn't be great for a flooded lead acid.....

Would be worth giving them a capacity check though

 

[Cush]

Interesting...therefore if by chance my 400ah of lithium needed a 220v charge..and say I arrived at an aire with electricity available I could charge my batteries via the Victron..
Assuming by just plugging it in to one of the 220v van sockets and connecting via both the red and black Busbars....also assuming I need to disable something in the EBL..like pull a fuse...I currently do not use my EBL as it's not Lithium enabled...

I charge mine using Victron charger plugged in to a 230v outlet in the van when in ehu. I simply turn the onboard charger off or send its charge to the van battery. Don’t think the 13.7 volts will do a lithium any harm, just not put much in to it.

 

[peterc10]

I think when I replace them I’ll go to Gels which I guess a Hymer of that era would have originally come with.

It would probably be better investing in LiFePo2 batteries given their prices are reducing quickly. Will give you 80% more usable power and half the weight of similar Gels.

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[AdrianChen]

I charge mine using Victron charger plugged in to a 230v outlet in the van when in ehu. I simply turn the onboard charger off or send its charge to the van battery. Don’t think the 13.7 volts will do a lithium any harm, just not put much in to it.

It'll get them pretty high I think, given time - If it's the only source of charge, it may not be enough for cell balancing - not a problem if you have solar/b2b getting them up to 14.X from time to time.

 

[a900ss]

It would probably be better investing in LiFePo2 batteries given their prices are reducing quickly. Will give you 80% more usable power and half the weight of similar Gels.

But to do that I’d also need to add a B2B charger and a separate charger for when on EHU as the EBL101 isn’t lithium friendly I believe.

(The EBL101 is set for lead acid but it can also be set for Gels should I buy those)

 

[jumar]

But to do that I’d also need to add a B2B charger and a separate charger for when on EHU as the EBL101 isn’t lithium friendly I believe.

(The EBL101 is set for lead acid but it can also be set for Gels should I buy those)

If you spend most of your motorhoming time on locations with hook up and very little time off grid....Lithium isn't for you...you could buy Gel or LA....however if you intend expanding your off grid time....you could, like many have and go Lithium...