KFC parking fine (1 Viewer)

[weekenders]

Can UKPC send a parking fine if kfc is not open, but drive into their car park for 9 mins 35 secs

 

[scotjimland]

Probably yes.. it's private land.. presumably they have an ANPR camera ..

but it's not a 'fine' .. it's a parking notice charge .. an invoice

 

[ceejayt]

They have to give you something like 20 minutes grace period

 

[Brains]

Portugal EASYToll Fine - even though registered

We were in Portugal in March, and registered with the Portugal EASYToll system via the kiosk in the A22 layby. During our stay of approx a week, we were correctly charged for the e-tolls direct to the credit card. We've now received a fine in the post from a UK based fine collection...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[weekenders]

They have to give you something like 20 minutes grace period

So they can’t send you a parking notice/fine for 9 mins & 35 sec’s??

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[GJH]

They have to give you something like 20 minutes grace period

I think that's an urban myth. Councils allow a 10 minute period for people to leave after the expiry of the time they have paid for and, according to this article, private car park operators who are members of an accredited trade association have a similar practice.
However, the OP gives the impression that no payment was made so that would not apply.

So long as the conditions stated on the car park notice(s) were not breached then UKPC are probably within their rights.

 

[L' Hobo]

It used to be that one could not be fined for 'parking' unless you left the vehicle.

 

[suavecarve]

There is a new law coming out shortly )October I think but i had to go off during training yesterday) whereby each and every PCN which may involve a grace period (for example obstruction and double yellows wont count) will have to be administered after a 10 minute watching period.
It is not in place yet, however many companies use it and the ticket will not be validated as it has to go through DVLA prior to it being sent off to the "customer" and no 10 minute watching period means no sendy outy.
The timing on 9 minutes 35 seconds indicates likelihood of ANPR catching you on the way in and way out so dependant upon how big the car park is, actual parking (whilst you were checking the map to see if you were going in the right direction for instance, or wondering what that bumping noise was on your tyre) is likely to be less than your 9 and a half minutes)

There will be numerous different thoughts on not giving them any information, complaining, refuse to correspond etc. Under the circumstances you have set out, I would be very tempted to write one of the most sarcastic letters known to man, pointing out the time spent, the time of day when it was not open, the lighting (if its an issue) the weather report (if it was raining) and almost demand to go to the ombudsman as they are not out of pocket for the space. Include any good previous parking (eg never received a ticket previously) and then offer some advice for the ombudsman to take on board suggesting that ANPR cameras should have a 12 minute grace period instead of 10 and perhaps overnight should be as much as an hour to allow tired drivers a power nap as it cost them nothing. They will not likely want to go to the ombudsman with the tale you have told.

But each decision on these tickets is very personal to the aggrieved

 

[dash300]

I think there is usually drive in drive out leeway time built in for those who drive into the carpark but do not actually park because there is no space etc.

 

[gus-lopez]

It used to be that one could not be fined for 'parking' unless you left the vehicle.

Yes a barrister fought them in court as he stopped to sleep, never left the vehicle ,
therefore had no idea of the T&C's. To the Op it is a " parking charge notice" .
It must be received within 14 days of the alleged 'offence'. If over it is not legally issued.

Did you leave the vehicle? If not don't not even contact them.
If you are forced to never admit who was driving.
Go on Which site & they have a specific forum for PCN's . far more knowledgeable than those who wrote the rules. Ask the same question on there.

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[weekenders]

Yes a barrister fought them in court as he stopped to sleep, never left the vehicle ,
therefore had no idea of the T&C's. To the Op it is a " parking charge notice" .
It must be received within 14 days of the alleged 'offence'. If over it is not legally issued.

Did you leave the vehicle? If not don't not even contact them.
If you are forced to never admit who was driving.
Go on Which site & they have a specific forum for PCN's . far more knowledgeable than those who wrote the rules. Ask the same question on there.

Thanks for the info. Hubby never left the vehicle, car is in my name (wife), will have a look on PCN forums

 

[Gromett]

Yes a barrister fought them in court as he stopped to sleep, never left the vehicle ,
therefore had no idea of the T&C's. To the Op it is a " parking charge notice" .
It must be received within 14 days of the alleged 'offence'. If over it is not legally issued.

Did you leave the vehicle? If not don't not even contact them.
If you are forced to never admit who was driving.
Go on Which site & they have a specific forum for PCN's . far more knowledgeable than those who wrote the rules. Ask the same question on there.

I thought this was interesting enough to look into it. Turns out he didn't win on the merits. He won basically because Parking eye didn't turn up to court. Judges frown on companies taking members of the public to small claims court and then not turning up themselves to pursue the case.

The OP would be wise not to rely on this as a means of escaping the fine though.

Parking firm took on top lawyer over £85 fine - and lost!

ParkingEye sued Nicholas Bowen QC after he refused to pay a parking ticket for exceeding the free two-hour limit while he took a nap at Membury service station on the M4 at night.

www.dailymail.co.uk

ParkingEye meets its match as it takes on a top barrister over an £85 fine

QC Nicholas Bowen has fought high-profile cases, but when it came to this one it was personal

www.theguardian.com

 

[lorger]

Have a look on here.

FightBack Forums -> Private Parking Tickets & Clamping

forums.pepipoo.com

 

[BusyBuilder]

Wife got caught, 4 hours in carpark, it was 4 hours for years then they reduced it to 3 hours and she didn't read the notice. Anyway they sent out fine, but we were in USA, they sent another says she's going to court. Unfortunately we are now in France, so no idea what's happening. We get back in end Oct, then we're off again......

 

[enark]

They can send you what they like, and you can just ignore it….

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[GJH]

I thought this was interesting enough to look into it. Turns out he didn't win on the merits. He won basically because Parking eye didn't turn up to court. Judges frown on companies taking members of the public to small claims court and then not turning up themselves to pursue the case.

The OP would be wise not to rely on this as a means of escaping the fine though.

Parking firm took on top lawyer over £85 fine - and lost!

ParkingEye sued Nicholas Bowen QC after he refused to pay a parking ticket for exceeding the free two-hour limit while he took a nap at Membury service station on the M4 at night.

www.dailymail.co.uk

ParkingEye meets its match as it takes on a top barrister over an £85 fine

QC Nicholas Bowen has fought high-profile cases, but when it came to this one it was personal

www.theguardian.com

This case has cropped up in a thread some time ago. From memory Parking Eye didn't pursue it because they realised that the signage was at fault.
It's worth bearing in mind, though, that in the 6 years since they have rectified that.

 

[Ava the Adria]

Its worth engaging with them as per suavecarve's comments above.

They should follow codes of practice - BPA have a pretty much standard 10 minute grace period any adjudicator will expect them to comply with (See para 13)

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/AOS_Code_of_Practice_January_2020_v8(2).pdf

 

[gus-lopez]

Its worth engaging with them as per suavecarve's comments above.

They should follow codes of practice - BPA have a pretty much standard 10 minute grace period any adjudicator will expect them to comply with (See para 13)

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/AOS_Code_of_Practice_January_2020_v8(2).pdf

Only problem with using them is they are the people who are imposing the fines. They have vested interests.
The "BPA president John McArdle" is a consultant specialising in parking enforcement for both public & private individuals.No conflict there then?

 

[Gromett]

This case has cropped up in a thread some time ago. From memory Parking Eye didn't pursue it because they realised that the signage was at fault.
It's worth bearing in mind, though, that in the 6 years since they have rectified that.

That is not what they said at the time. They said they did turn up but were told the fee hadn't been paid so left again.
Anyway that is beside the point I was making.

gus-lopez appeared to be claiming he won the case and it may therefore be ok to sleep in the vehicle and providing you don't get out you would have a valid argument against any legal claim.
I was simply pointing out that he didn't actually win his case on the merits, he won by default. This means that his arguments should not be given much value as they have not been tested in court yet.

The reason for Parking Eye not turning up is moot with respect to the point I was trying to make.

 

[GJH]

That is not what they said at the time. They said they did turn up but were told the fee hadn't been paid so left again.
Anyway that is beside the point I was making.

gus-lopez appeared to be claiming he won the case and it may therefore be ok to sleep in the vehicle and providing you don't get out you would have a valid argument against any legal claim.
I was simply pointing out that he didn't actually win his case on the merits, he won by default. This means that his arguments should not be given much value as they have not been tested in court yet.

The reason for Parking Eye not turning up is moot with respect to the point I was trying to make.

My memory obviously at fault this time but, as you say, a moot point.

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[Northernraider]

Can UKPC send a parking fine if kfc is not open, but drive into their car park for 9 mins 35 secs

They can

But not sure if England is different but in Scotland you bin it as its unenforceable without private court action. Only the council and police fines are enforceable.

I parked in a pub carpark last year for 12 minutes , never left the car or switched off the engine . I was just picking someone up. They sent me a fine and then 3 follow up letters making threats , all were filed in the bucket. That was a year past may and I've heard nothing since.

 

[enark]

They can

But not sure if England is different but in Scotland you bin it as its unenforceable without private court action. Only the council and police fines are enforceable.

I parked in a pub carpark last year for 12 minutes , never left the car or switched off the engine . I was just picking someone up. They sent me a fine and then 3 follow up letters making threats , all were filed in the bucket. That was a year past may and I've heard nothing since.

They may sell the case to someone else, then you get a load more letters, all of which again make great fire lighting material….

I’ve got a couple going back five years, they still sometimes send a couple more letters, waste of their ink….

 

[Bessy765]

I would reply stating although KFC was closed you came to look at the menu to decide what your next purchase would be so technically a customer.

 

[TwistNShout]

Some firms will pursue this sort of claim now, or sell them on to a firm that will so ignoring might cause them to take you to court. If the KFC was definitely closed at the time, I would take the approach of a polite letter stating that you drove in, thinking it was open intending to eat. As the KFC was closed you took a few minutes to look on the internet to see if another branch was open nearby and then drove off, all without leaving your vehicle. I would also state that, as you were there less than ten minutes and did not leave the vehicle you do not believe that any parking fee is due. Also worth checking if you need to buy a ticket or enter your registration into a machine inside the KFC, if they were closed and the machine is inside you couldn't enter your registration.

I once had a PCN from a club in a similar manner, they were closed and the registration machine was at the bar. I successfully argued that, as they were closed, I couldn't enter my registration or pay and therefore the notice was invalid.