Issues with Renogy 2000w Inverter

[BILL 875]

Hi, I have installed a renogy 2000w inverter and it works ok so i gave it a quick test with a basic plug in socket tester all the sockets are ok when on 240v but when running on the battery it shows live neutral reverse on the two sockets connected to the inverter so unpluged the plugs from the back of the inverter and tested there and that is also showing the same L N Reverse, does this matter or could the inverter be faulty. TIA Bill

 

[Odd-no-more]

Probably not, from my limited knowledge inverters run differently, they have a floating earth and often the power is on both L and N when I tested my inverter with an electrician's test set, it only showed 115v when I tested with a multimeter it shows 230v.
I'm sure someone with more knowledge will be along soon to explain it better.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Probably not, from my limited knowledge inverters run differently, they have a floating earth and often the power is on both L and N when I tested my inverter with an electrician's test set, it only showed 115v when I tested with a multimeter it shows 230v.
I'm sure someone with more knowledge will be along soon to explain it better.

Modified sine wave inverters usually show a low voltage on multimeter

 

[Richard n Ann]

Hi, I have installed a renogy 2000w inverter and it works ok so i gave it a quick test with a basic plug in socket tester all the sockets are ok when on 240v but when running on the battery it shows live neutral reverse on the two sockets connected to the inverter so unpluged the plugs from the back of the inverter and tested there and that is also showing the same L N Reverse, does this matter or could the inverter be faulty. TIA Bill

It's OK as mentioned, they have a floating earth so there isn't a live & neutral and the gadget therefore doesn't know which is which

 

[BILL 875]

OK thanks for the reply i will just use the inverter as is then, unless someone comes along and says the opposite Regards Bill

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[Odd-no-more]

Modified sine wave inverters usually show a low voltage on multimeter

The Renogy is a pure sine wave inverter

 

[BILL 875]

Yes it is

 

[Pausim]

It is what lots of inverters do, it is how they work. If your 2 sockets fed by the inverter have uk style switches do not rely on the switches, they are only single pole. Sockets without switches are much safer and usual on continental motorhomes.

 

[BILL 875]

Hi, thats sods law the sockets are swtiched thought i was doing the right thing there, a little knowlidge is a dangerous thing . Bill

 

[Richard n Ann]

Hi, thats sods law the sockets are swtiched thought i was doing the right thing there, a little knowlidge is a dangerous thing . Bill

The thing is though you can't get a shock off one wire from the inverter, you need to touch both at the same time so still safe...
Do you think mother nanny would let us buy something dangerous?

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[Pausim]

Hi, thats sods law the sockets are swtiched thought i was doing the right thing there, a little knowlidge is a dangerous thing . Bill

They are only dangerous if you think turning the switch off means you can stick your fingers in a device. Just pull the plug out.

 

[funflair]

Interesting read on page 3.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0..._343a45e8-6e0d-49f8-b949-978ea43af453.pdf?731

 

[autorouter]

Socket testers are for testing standard domestic sockets, where the neutral is connected to the earth, either at the meter or back at the substation. There should only be a very few volts, if any, between the neutral and earth.

An inverter has the 'neutral' and 'live' wires isolated from the earth, like an isolating transformer. The voltage between neutral and earth can be a random value, certainly more than a few volts, so the socket tester flags it as 'live'. In fact, if you attached a live/neutral reverse adapter, the socket tester would still show 'live/neutral reverse'

It is quite safe to use an inverter like this, it's like an isolating transformer. It's not an inferior solution, these are used for safety in bathroom low power shaver sockets in preference to an earth wire. Isolating transformers are also used for safety on building sites and in wet hazardous areas. It is too expensive to use big power isolating transformers in every house for every socket, so a standard protective earth wire is the next best thing.

 

[autorouter]

Hi, thats sods law the sockets are swtiched thought i was doing the right thing there, a little knowlidge is a dangerous thing

You can buy sockets that have 2-pole switches, you just have to look at the small print on the label to see if they are 2-pole or not. It's not something that's displayed prominently because it's not a big problem on fixed house installations that are tested after every modification.

 

[Odd-no-more]

You can buy sockets that have 2-pole switches, you just have to look at the small print on the label to see if they are 2-pole or not. It's not something that's displayed prominently because it's not a big problem on fixed house installations that are tested after every modification.

Modern switched sockets have a double pole switch.

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[autorouter]

Modern switched sockets have a double pole switch.

Yes, they all have, except the ones that don't.

LAP 13A 1-Gang SP Switched Plug Socket White - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. LAP range combines great engineering with an elegant, slimline design. Supplied with fixing screw and covers. Single pole. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

At least Screwfix tell you what they are. B&Q don't give you that info on the website.

 

[berni109]

Having read the post funflair linked to I now have lots of information but still a lack of understanding.
I am thinking of getting a renogy 2000w model and the info was saying (my understanding) that I need a double pole RCD in the wire after the inverter that feeds the sockets already in the van. This will also work when the inverter is in passthrough mode ( if that's what its called) when on hookup.
So RCD on hookup post(hopefully) - then double pole(again hopefully) RCD in motorhome consumer unit - then inverter - then another separate double pole RCD before attaching the vans 240v sockets.
Is that right???????

 

[Odd-no-more]

Yes, they all have, except the ones that don't.

LAP 13A 1-Gang SP Switched Plug Socket White - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. LAP range combines great engineering with an elegant, slimline design. Supplied with fixing screw and covers. Single pole. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

At least Screwfix tell you what they are. B&Q don't give you that info on the website.

Yes, they all have, except the ones that don't.

LAP 13A 1-Gang SP Switched Plug Socket White - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. LAP range combines great engineering with an elegant, slimline design. Supplied with fixing screw and covers. Single pole. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

At least Screwfix tell you what they are. B&Q don't give you that info on the website.

When I did my part P training I was told all UK sockets had to have double pole switches, this may have changed since, it was many years ago. I have never actually tested one, I will now.

 

[Odd-no-more]

Having read the post funflair linked to I now have lots of information but still a lack of understanding.
I am thinking of getting a renogy 2000w model and the info was saying (my understanding) that I need a double pole RCD in the wire after the inverter that feeds the sockets already in the van. This will also work when the inverter is in passthrough mode ( if that's what its called) when on hookup.
So RCD on hookup post(hopefully) - then double pole(again hopefully) RCD in motorhome consumer unit - then inverter - then another separate double pole RCD before attaching the vans 240v sockets.
Is that right???????

I looked into this before I fitted my inverter and as I understand it, due to the floating earth an RCD after the inverter will not work as the current is in both poles. An RCD before the inverter is good, your van will have one, this will still work in passthrough mode.

 

[autorouter]

So RCD on hookup post(hopefully) - then double pole(again hopefully) RCD in motorhome consumer unit - then inverter - then another separate double pole RCD before attaching the vans 240v sockets.
Is that right???????

Yes. I'm afraid so. The hookup post RCD is to protect against someone running a lawnmower over your cable, etc. The inlet RCD is to protect all your loads - inverter loads and non-inverter loads. The inverter RCD is to protect the loads on the inverter output.

Some items like the battery charger, heater and water heater elements, and maybe the fridge element, you probably don't want to run from your inverter, so they are wired separately as non-inverter loads. When the EHU is disconnected, they lose power.

Edit: as The Ex-Gasman says, some inverters don't really need an RCD. My Victron Multiplus needs one, but that is a special type that combines the hookup and inverter mains outputs together. I have double-pole RCBOs on all the circuits instead of separate RCDs and MCBs.

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[berni109]

autorouter thanks for the explanation.
The renogy inverter I am thinking of has 2 X 13amp UK sockets as outlets so I guess that is designed to run any appliances.
If one of those appliances developed a fault then there is the potential for electric shock without a double pole RCD between the inverter socket and the appliance. Is that it???

 

[Richard n Ann]

Socket testers are for testing standard domestic sockets, where the neutral is connected to the earth, either at the meter or back at the substation. There should only be a very few volts, if any, between the neutral and earth.

An inverter has the 'neutral' and 'live' wires isolated from the earth, like an isolating transformer. The voltage between neutral and earth can be a random value, certainly more than a few volts, so the socket tester flags it as 'live'. In fact, if you attached a live/neutral reverse adapter, the socket tester would still show 'live/neutral reverse'

It is quite safe to use an inverter like this, it's like an isolating transformer. It's not an inferior solution, these are used for safety in bathroom low power shaver sockets in preference to an earth wire. Isolating transformers are also used for safety on building sites and in wet hazardous areas. It is too expensive to use big power isolating transformers in every house for every socket, so a standard protective earth wire is the next best thing.

But you'd never need an isolating transformer if it wasn't for the earth bonding at the substations.. So why do we bother?