Hymer Smart Battery System with third Habitation Battery discharge rate

[07790]

Hi does any one have the Hymer Smart Battery System with third habitation batery? With the solar on and everything in the MH switch off the batteries are discharging at the rate of 20% in 9 days, is this normal. The MH has a factory fitted battery system and the MH is only 3 months old. According to the sales brochure this system is suppose to last for up to 10 days of normal usage.

From what I have read on the web lithium batteries do discharge but only at a rate of 0.5% to 5% per month, so you think I have a problem or is it just normal for this system.

 

[Pausim]

The Hymer Smart System is a combination of lithium and lead acid batteries. The lead acid part of the system will have a higher self discharge rate than the lithium part. Even so that 20% discharge seems high and perhaps there is some hidden battery drain going on somewhere, possibly the brain driving the smart system itself has a quiescent draw.

 

[LithiumConvert]

Hi does any one have the Hymer Smart Battery System

We have a 2022 Hymer Exsis which is factory wired for the smart system, but did not have the system fitted.

I took one look at it and with advice from these forums, I decided I did not need the middle man (the very heavy AGM lead acid leisure battery).

So, I took out the big, heavy AGM leisure battery and replaced it with much lighter but, more powerfull lithium batteries.

To do this I needed to change just 3 things :-

1. The Hymer fitted main 121545 starter to leisure B2B (under the floor behind the passenger seat)
   needed its setting changing from AGM to Lithium.
2. The EBL 30 needed its setting changing from AGM to GEL. (not perfect for lithium but OK)
3. The dealer fitted solar regulator also need changing from AGM to Lithium

Regular visitiors to this forum may have seen that I did not do this all in one go.
But, had I had all of the information I now have, I could have done it in one go.

The Hymer wiring for their smart system is still there just as it was. Unused. Untouched.

The Sterling Power lithium batteries behave just as I expected. (much better than AGM)

 

[Lenny HB]

It could be the Lithium is keeping the AGM topped up but solar even at this time of year I would expect the batteries to remain at 100%.
Sounds to me that your solar is not working.
On my van I have 3 x 78ah Gel batteries and 300 Watts of solar when the van is not in use they never drop belowc100%

 

[HugoBNB]

Hi does any one have the Hymer Smart Battery System with third habitation batery? With the solar on and everything in the MH switch off the batteries are discharging at the rate of 20% in 9 days, is this normal. The MH has a factory fitted battery system and the MH is only 3 months old. According to the sales brochure this system is suppose to last for up to 10 days of normal usage.

From what I have read on the web lithium batteries do discharge but only at a rate of 0.5% to 5% per month, so you think I have a problem or is it just normal for this system.

We have this system too. It is still very new (5-months) to us, but when our MH was first in storage, I was looking on the connect app and the battery system did seem to be dropping more than what I was expecting from cinversations with the dealer. So saying, it is stored under cover so there would be no solar top up. In the manual it indicated there was a switch on the EBL? that effectively shuts down the HAB systems. Rather than faff about, we simply use an EHU in storage and keep the heating at 6⁰ on gas to keep everything stable. If we were specifying a new van (this was already fitted) I think I would be guided by the learned folk on here more than a dealer.
I hope you get it sorted. Safe and happy travels.

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[Lenny HB]

In the manual it indicated there was a switch on the EBL?

Not worth the risk those switches are famous for failing best left alone.

 

[07790]

This what the dealer had to say .
"Your vehicle has a lot of bus systems that run in the background and use a lot of power. At this time of the year, the power that the solar system puts into the system is lower than the consumption."
So you pay 6k for a system that flatters it batteries in approximately 40 days if its not in use that surely can't be right.

 

[Lenny HB]

What size are your batteries and how much solar do you have?

 

[1967bowesj]

What size is the hybrid batteries?
In 40 days you have 960 hours drain, won’t take much of a drain to lower batteries in that time

 

[07790]

336 ah plus 1 x 95 ah lead acid battery. According to the manual the whole system goes to sleep after 48 hrs.

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[Lenny HB]

336 ah plus 1 x 95 ah lead acid battery. According to the manual the whole system goes to sleep after 48 hrs.

So from your figures you have a discharge of around 400 maH not unusual on a modern van.

So either your solar is not working or you have a much higher drain.

You don't say how much solar you have but even a 100 watt panel it's not raining constantly should just about cope with that drain.
With a system that size to have around 500 watts of solar would be sensible.

 

[07790]

The solar is 2 x 90 watt panels and were averaging around 3 amps for about 6 hours.

 

[Lenny HB]

The solar is 2 x 90 watt panels and were averaging around 3 amps for about 6 hours.

Does you control panel give a readout of current or do you have a seperate shunt that you can read it on, or the Lithium BMS?
If so disconnect the solar and see what the current draw is.

If not its worth getting a DC clamp meter the UNI-T UT210D is a good one.

 

[HugoBNB]

336 ah plus 1 x 95 ah lead acid battery. According to the manual the wholsystem goes to sleep after

Confused .com here too. Our MH came, according to the invoice with the most expensive smart battery option. Looking in the hatch under the floor there are two lithium and one AGM, with no room for anything else in there. From the appended table we must have either 245ah, or 349ah usible. Although the final column of the table makes no mention of the AGM.

 

[07790]

HugoBNB do you have the same amount of habitation battery discharge?

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[HugoBNB]

HugoBNB do you have the same amount of habitation battery discharge?

I am not certain 07790 But I think so. We only got this new in September 2023 and the tech on it was a massive hike up from what we had. It is kept garaged which renders our 150w solar panel useless. The first time it was stored I was looking via the connect app and noticed the battery levels dropping. By exactly how much I do not know, but enough to get me thinking, and to mention it to the dealer. Anyway, with the onset of winter, and to protect the MH from chilling out, we negotiated a 240v hook-up in the storage facility. This eliminated the problem, and means we can keep the gas heating set at 6⁰.
I messaged Hymer support as their blurb on keeping tge batteries in good condition baffled me. They said it was fine to keep the system on permanent EHU when in storage. I may get one of those meters that Lenny HB recommended earlier. If I do, I will post back the results.

 

[HugoBNB]

Table appended

 

[Bessy765]

Although a Burstner not Hymer we have a full Lithium set up 700 watts
Victron 12/2000/80 inverter charger and 200 amps of Lithium.. The van lives in our garage at the bottom of the garden as therefore gets no benefit from the solar. It drops about 7/8% of charge a day, hab power turned off but the monitoring of the electronics alarm and tracker uses quite a bit, I have 2 x 100 solars panels that were on the van when we bought it new am going to put them on the garage roof to top it up for most of the year, rather than disconnect anything

 

[Westbarn1]

Hi does any one have the Hymer Smart Battery System with third habitation batery? With the solar on and everything in the MH switch off the batteries are discharging at the rate of 20% in 9 days, is this normal. The MH has a factory fitted battery system and the MH is only 3 months old. According to the sales brochure this system is suppose to last for up to 10 days of normal usage.

From what I have read on the web lithium batteries do discharge but only at a rate of 0.5% to 5% per month, so you think I have a problem or is it just normal for this system.

We have a B600 with the 349amp Smart System with 2 x 90 factory fitted solar, just over a year old now (factory order, 1st owner) so same system as you, kept outside at home and the habitation batteries more or less will stay at 100%. What issue I have is the starter battery is not kept at full charge, (has tracker fitted) I have bought a battery master from Van Bitz, but not got round to fitting it yet ( not worked out where to best fit the wires) so as a temporary measure have fixed a solar panel to a nearby fence to keep the starter topped up separately (https://www.optimate.co.uk/battery-chargers/optimate-solar-duo-40w/)
This is my second Hymer with this same system, the previous one (690) also had no issues with the Smart system, which Is why I specified the same on my current one, and wanted the peace of mind that it would would be covered by the Hymer warranty.

 

[HugoBNB]

We have a B600 with the 349amp Smart System with 2 x 90 factory fitted solar, just over a year old now (factory order, 1st owner) so same system as you, kept outside at home and the habitation batteries more or less will stay at 100%. What issue I have is the starter battery is not kept at full charge, (has tracker fitted) I have bought a battery master from Van Bitz, but not got round to fitting it yet ( not worked out where to best fit the wires) so as a temporary measure have fixed a solar panel to a nearby fence to keep the starter topped up separately (https://www.optimate.co.uk/battery-chargers/optimate-solar-duo-40w/)
This is my second Hymer with this same system, the previous one (690) also had no issues with the Smart system, which Is why I specified the same on my current one, and wanted the peace of mind that it would would be covered by the Hymer warranty.

I thought the smart system already had a B2B. Victron V45, from my limited memory, and even more limited knowledge? Ours is a B-MCI 690 2023 model new in September, so I guess it has the up-to-date kit installed. An instruction manual for idiots would help me.
Safe and happy travels.

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[1967bowesj]

I thought the smart system already had a B2B. Victron V45, from my limited memory, and even more limited knowledge? Ours is a B-MCI 690 2023 model new in September, so I guess it has the up-to-date kit installed. An instruction manual for idiots would help me.
Safe and happy travels.

B2B charges the leisure battery bank when you driving, the van bitz battery master is a low amp trickle charger back to engine battery from leisure when parked.

 

[07790]

Thats very interesting as mine is charging the engine battery that went from 12.6 v to 12.9v yesterday.

The solar wasn't working when I took delivery of the new MH and it took weeks to find out that it had been wired wrong by the factory. I am just not convinced its charging the habitation batteries the lead acid battery in the set was at 13 v though. If I have read how it works correctly the lithium batteries keep that charged.

 

[HugoBNB]

B2B charges the leisure battery bank when you driving, the van bitz battery master is a low amp trickle charger back to engine battery from leisure when parked.

Thanks for that explanation. I don't think we need that as we store ours on EHU. We are never on sites for long enough to make the vehicle battery discharge an issue.

 

[HugoBNB]

On the same topic, could anyone please tell me from this picture if our SP controller is charging both the HAB and Vehicle batteries?
Thanks.

 

[bigtwin]

On the same topic, could anyone please tell me from this picture if our SP controller is charging both the HAB and Vehicle batteries?
Thanks.



View attachment 868951

Looks that way. If you measure the battery voltages (when the sun is shining) that should confirm it.

Ian

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[Colin H]

Hi does any one have the Hymer Smart Battery System with third habitation batery? With the solar on and everything in the MH switch off the batteries are discharging at the rate of 20% in 9 days, is this normal. The MH has a factory fitted battery system and the MH is only 3 months old. According to the sales brochure this system is suppose to last for up to 10 days of normal usage.

From what I have read on the web lithium batteries do discharge but only at a rate of 0.5% to 5% per month, so you think I have a problem or is it just normal for this system.

Did you ever get a resolution to your issue? I ask as maybe a similar problem. Just taken delivery of Hymer 580 with same battery system as yourself. Brought it home on Saturday to load up and then into outdoor storage ie solar available on Monday. Habitation battery showing 86% Monday and 71% Thursday. That seems like a lot of current drain with everything off. Solar according to panel supplying current appropriate to light conditions.

 

[HugoBNB]

We have been off grid since Wednesday lunchtime. Hab and cab batteries were fully charged when we arrived. Fridge on all the time, TV for a couple of hours at night. Even the heating on for 30 minutes each morning. Mrs B on the hair dryer once via the inverter. I have attached the stats from the Hymer app. It has not exactly been sunny for our 150w solar to help. All-in this does not read too badly to me.

 

[Guigsy]

I've got a Geist with a bus based electrical system. It is really power hungry, even with everything off. In the winter (so virtually no solar) it'd sit on the drive and pancake the 100Ah LA battery in less than 2 weeks. I've upgraded to a 280Ah lithium battery, which means I only have to plug it in a few times over the winter period instead of having it pretty much permanently tethered.

Thankfully in use on the road, the parasitic load is pretty much irrelevant. And through the summer, the solar keeps it topped up.

 

[PDrill]

I don't have anything to comment to the OP's post, but a few words about the Hymer Smart battery for general interest.

It indeed is/was a system with one AGM hab battery and XXX Ah of lithiums and the lithiums were used first and the AGM only when the lithiums are empty. Also charging (EHU/driving) deals with the AGM first and lithium after that's done. But a while ago (maybe last summer or so) they introduced Hymer Smart Battery 2.0 which didn't have the AGM any more, only lithium. We got out Fiat based Grand Canyon a month ago and I and the dealer thought it would have the 2.0 with only lithiums (160Ah in my case) and that more than slightly pissed me as the original order was for 95 AGM + 150 lit totalling about 200Ah of usable capacity, and this new setup would've had about 25% less usable capacity, but for some unknown reason I got 95+160 so pretty happy with that. MB based Grand Canyons (PVC) and most likely all the 'big white stuff' have had this 2.0 for a while now.

 

[Colin H]

Did you ever get a resolution to your issue? I ask as maybe a similar problem. Just taken delivery of Hymer 580 with same battery system as yourself. Brought it home on Saturday to load up and then into outdoor storage ie solar available on Monday. Habitation battery showing 86% Monday and 71% Thursday. That seems like a lot of current drain with everything off. Solar according to panel supplying current appropriate to light conditions.

A bit of simple tinkering and I think I’ve sorted it. It’s the inverter! I thought that ensuring the 12v and mains being turned off at the master panel being selected off would isolate everything, wrong. Quick Look at remote inverter control in another cupboard showed LED on and hence mains sockets being live. Turned this off and hey presto the Solar then started to top up the batteries. So the active current being drawn by the inverter even though no mains was being’drawn’ was perhaps 2-3 amps?

So now one more item to add to storage checklist, inverter off.