Hydra trail owners

[injebreck99]

Further to my recent problems with my new Hydra Trail trailer, mainly through lack of familiarity probably, it seems to me that the scooter is leaning too far towards the van IMO, could other owners tell me how upright their scooter or motorcycle is when loaded, a picture from either end would be good, mine was leaned over like it was on the side stand when loaded, the bed that the scooter stands on was tilted as well, doesn't seem right to me.?
I think I need to get some stronger ratchet straps, mine were 25mm cheapies , and secure the front wheel to the chock more securely to prevent the front wheel turning when travelling.
Any advice appreciated.

 

[Badknee]

I can't help you with the Hydra Trail but I have trailered some big bikes.
I always fasten the wheels down securely so they can't turn at all, then fastened straps around the headstock somehow (different bike different ways) but make sure to put a bit of load on the suspension.
At the rear I try to find a solid bit of frame/rack even if it means taking or lifting the seat to find something solid, also if the front wheel is in a rack or something pull the straps so they are forcing the whole bike forward, again putting a little load on the suspension as it stops it bouncing. I also used to put a small strap around the front brake lever to lock the wheel.

 

[TheTwoOfUs]

 

[Gazza333]

View attachment 163993 View attachment 163994

Now I like that set up

 

[pappajohn]

Measure your tow ball height.
Recommended height is 17" to top of ball from level ground.
Any lower will obviously make the trailer lean forwards.
If it's much lower you need a height adjustable adaptor plate between flange and ball.

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[injebreck99]

Measure your tow ball height.
Recommended height is 17" to top of ball from level ground.
Any lower will obviously make the trailer lean forwards.
If it's much lower you need a height adjustable adaptor plate between flange and ball.

This trailer doesn't use a towball, just a frame that slots into a socket, no adjustment possible as I see it.

 

[injebreck99]

View attachment 163993 View attachment 163994

Nice set up, your scooter must be more stable having 2 front wheels, my scooter was leaning towards the van more than yours does, I see that your loading platform is not level, I thought that it should be?, I may just have to get used to using mine.

 

[Badknee]

Nice set up, your scooter must be more stable having 2 front wheels, my scooter was leaning towards the van more than yours does, I see that your loading platform is not level, I thought that it should be?, I may just have to get used to using mine.

If yours is leaning in more as PPJ says the front needs lifting up on a plate to make it more level. If the front of your Moho is going up a ramp for instance the rear will dip quite a lot with the overhang and will tilt your bike into the back of your van.

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

Measure your tow ball height.
Recommended height is 17" to top of ball from level ground.
Any lower will obviously make the trailer lean forwards.
If it's much lower you need a height adjustable adaptor plate between flange and ball.

This trailer doesn't use a towball, just a frame that slots into a socket, no adjustment possible as I see it.

As the system used parrallowgram linkages the lean will match the vertical bracket on the towbar.
The picture looks like the van upright is leaning toward the van and this will replicate the rest of the rack causing the bike to lean forward also.
Personally I do not like the idea as the stresses are far more than the tow bar is expected to take.

 

[Minxy]

Measure your tow ball height.
Recommended height is 17" to top of ball from level ground.
Any lower will obviously make the trailer lean forwards.
If it's much lower you need a height adjustable adaptor plate between flange and ball.

Exactly my thought too ... it looks like the trailer is attached to the MH too low down - it should sit pretty level with or without the bike, so that would be my first check.

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[Minxy]

This trailer doesn't use a towball, just a frame that slots into a socket, no adjustment possible as I see it.

In which case it looks like you need some sort of extension!

If the 'female' socked in the rear of the MH can't be lifted/extended upwards (I assume because it would mean cutting into the bumper), then vertical upright with the 'male' part on that slots into the 'female' socket needs extending somehow.

Did the trailer people install the socket on your MH? If so, they should have realised it wasn't high enough so a visit back to them might be in order to rectify it.

The current set-up appears to be putting way too much downward pressure/weight on the rear of the MH, instead of the trailer itself taking it.

 

[Minxy]

Just another thought ... is it possible to move the loading platform more to the rear so it is more centrally placed on the wheels? This may then solve the problem and 'level out' the scooter.

 

[injebreck99]

In which case it looks like you need some sort of extension!

If the 'female' socked in the rear of the MH can't be lifted/extended upwards (I assume because it would mean cutting into the bumper), then vertical upright with the 'male' part on that slots into the 'female' socket needs extending somehow.

Did the trailer people install the socket on your MH? If so, they should have realised it wasn't high enough so a visit back to them might be in order to rectify it.

The current set-up appears to be putting way too much downward pressure/weight on the rear of the MH, instead of the trailer itself taking it.

The towbar suppliers also supplied the trailer, we loaded everything up before heading for home, they were happy with the setup apart from the front wheel not being secured enough,
We are off for a month's holiday in Canada from Wednesday, so I will sort it out after we return, Thanks Folks.

 

[Minxy]

If you have a set of bathroom scales you could try resting the loaded trailer's bar on that with the trailer at the same angle you have it on the MH (use some blocks to raise it to the correct height) and see what the downforce loading is, that way you'll see how much weight is being 'carried' by the MH connection and if it is excessive or not (remember to deduce the weight of the blocks!).

 

[tonyidle]

It looks absolutely OK to me. Don't confuse vertical movement of the van or trailer with the van tilting forward or backward. The action under those circumstances is totally different to that of a conventional trailer. Imagine the van stationary on level ground. If the whole van is lifted or lowered, or the trailer itself is lifted or lowered, the bike will remain level because of the parallelogram linkage. Now imagine the hitch 'post' tipped forwards because only the rear of the van is raised. The action of the //ogram will allow the bike to stay where it is even though the back of the van rises and the bike will tilt forward at the same angle as the hitch post. It will therefore stay the same distance from the van. The reverse will occur if the rear of the van is lower than the front (ferry ramp) but the bike will still stay the same distance from the van. In short the //ogram keeps the bikes position, relative to the hitch 'post', constant. And the hitch post is always in the same position relative to the rear wall of the van. Under all circumstances the weight on the towball will be minimal compared with conventional trailer noseweight and will only vary by a small amount.

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[Minxy]

It looks absolutely OK to me. Don't confuse vertical movement of the van or trailer with the van tilting forward or backward. The action under those circumstances is totally different to that of a conventional trailer. Imagine the van stationary on level ground. If the whole van is lifted or lowered, or the trailer itself is lifted or lowered, the bike will remain level because of the parallelogram linkage. Now imagine the hitch 'post' tipped forwards because only the rear of the van is raised. The action of the //ogram will allow the bike to stay where it is even though the back of the van rises and the bike will tilt forward at the same angle as the hitch post. It will therefore stay the same distance from the van. The reverse will occur if the rear of the van is lower than the front (ferry ramp) but the bike will still stay the same distance from the van. In short the //ogram keeps the bikes position, relative to the hitch 'post', constant. And the hitch post is always in the same position relative to the rear wall of the van. Under all circumstances the weight on the towball will be minimal compared with conventional trailer noseweight and will only vary by a small amount.

I actually understood that! I agree ref the distance from the vehicle but that's not the issue, it's the 'angle' that it's already sitting at that just doesn't look right, on the website it isn't at a 'funny' angle.

 

[jockaneezer]

With the van and trailer sitting on flat, level ground, I would expect the parallelogram linkage to be parallel to the road surface. If this isn't the case, as others have indicated, the mounting point on the tow bar needs adjusted one way or the other to achieve this to get the trailer bed level.
I like the thinking behind the Hydratrail unit but feel the design is let down by the lack of independent suspension.

 

[MikeD]

You can buy tow balls with an extended neck and if fitted should change the angle of the bike rack.

 

[TheTwoOfUs]

It looks absolutely OK to me. Don't confuse vertical movement of the van or trailer with the van tilting forward or backward. The action under those circumstances is totally different to that of a conventional trailer. Imagine the van stationary on level ground. If the whole van is lifted or lowered, or the trailer itself is lifted or lowered, the bike will remain level because of the parallelogram linkage. Now imagine the hitch 'post' tipped forwards because only the rear of the van is raised. The action of the //ogram will allow the bike to stay where it is even though the back of the van rises and the bike will tilt forward at the same angle as the hitch post. It will therefore stay the same distance from the van. The reverse will occur if the rear of the van is lower than the front (ferry ramp) but the bike will still stay the same distance from the van. In short the //ogram keeps the bikes position, relative to the hitch 'post', constant. And the hitch post is always in the same position relative to the rear wall of the van. Under all circumstances the weight on the towball will be minimal compared with conventional trailer noseweight and will only vary by a small amount.

That is exactly how it works. The height of the mounting bracket has no bearing on the level of the trailer. What does affect it is whether the mounting plate/bracket is vertical and whether the plate flexes. The only other thing that i've found that has any bearing is the clearances in the mating square section components. This will become apparent when you reverse and the wheels castor and rotate to a position further forward than the centre of the platform and the whole scooter/platform assembly will tilt backwards. This is quite disconcerting at first but you soon get used to it.
Moving the wheels in relation to the mounting platform will only vary the loading on the back of the motorhome.

 

[pappajohn]

This trailer doesn't use a towball, just a frame that slots into a socket, no adjustment possible as I see it.

Having never seen one I assumed, incorrectly, it simply clamped onto the ball.
In my opinion it would be better if it did.
Looking at the pictures I don't think I would trust the lightweight metal brackets with a larger bike on the trailer....unless It's an illusion and they are bigger than they appear.

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[pappajohn]

doesn't appear to have castoring wheels, they're inside the mudguard, so can't figure out how it pivots in the horizontal plane having a square section tube within a square section socket at the hitch point.

Think I need to see one 'in the flesh' to understand it.

 

[injebreck99]

Having never seen one I assumed, incorrectly, it simply clamped onto the ball.
In my opinion it would be better if it did.
Looking at the pictures I don't think I would trust the lightweight metal brackets with a larger bike on the trailer....unless It's an illusion and they are bigger than they appear.

I can assure you that they are not lightweight metal brackets, but very substantial square section tubing, more than man enough to take the weight,

 

[injebreck99]

doesn't appear to have castoring wheels, they're inside the mudguard, so can't figure out how it pivots in the horizontal plane having a square section tube within a square section socket at the hitch point.

Think I need to see one 'in the flesh' to understand it.

Both the whole wheel and mudguard units swivel 360 degrees, the frame stays square, no pivoting, and follows the van in forward or reverse.

 

[pappajohn]

Seems a very high torsional loading on a relatively (to the trailer size) small bracket.

 

[Minxy]

The trailer itself isn't a trailer as such in the usual sense, but is more akin to a slot-on bike rack that fixes to the rear of the MH via the square sockets with a 'jointed' bracket that allows up/down but no side to side movement whatsoever ... it just happens to have 2 swivelling wheels attached underneath which take some of the weight.

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[jockaneezer]

That is exactly how it works. The height of the mounting bracket has no bearing on the level of the trailer. What does affect it is whether the mounting plate/bracket is vertical and whether the plate flexes. The only other thing that i've found that has any bearing is the clearances in the mating square section components. This will become apparent when you reverse and the wheels castor and rotate to a position further forward than the centre of the platform and the whole scooter/platform assembly will tilt backwards. This is quite disconcerting at first but you soon get used to it.
Moving the wheels in relation to the mounting platform will only vary the loading on the back of the motorhome.

You're dead right Neil, I just sketched it out on the back of an envelope, probably the same as James Watt did when he invented his Parallel Motion So the trailer bed not being level is to do with the angle of the mounting plate, combined with any slop and flop in the linkages and sleeved box section components ?
Does the position of the load in relation to the wheels affect it much ?
I'm interested because I've been thinking about building something similar incorporating progressive hollow rubber springs as suspension in the castor units.

 

[TheTwoOfUs]

When the trailer is reversed the wheels castor to a position in front of the bike/scooter and the play in the unit causes it to tilt to the back. As I said, a bit disconcerting at first but when you realise it's not going to fall off you accept it.

 

[injebreck99]

When the trailer is reversed the wheels castor to a position in front of the bike/scooter and the play in the unit causes it to tilt to the back. As I said, a bit disconcerting at first but when you realise it's not going to fall off you accept it.

Yes, a bit scary until you realise what's going on.