How to know if downplating is possible before purchase?!

[JadeCM]

Hi all,

I am looking to buy my first motorhome and have my heart set on a Rapido, in particular tan 891M.
I initially started off with something much smaller, however I will be living in this full time and after viewing various hymers and rapidos, I think the extra space will be needed.
I’ll happily do my license, but I want the van to be drivable on a car license, mainly so I can share the drives when out with my friends and family!
My issue is I need to know the motorhome can be downplated before I buy it. Have spoken to SVTech, they’ve said if an empty van has a weighbridge ticket of 3100kg or less, that it’s definitely doable.
I saw a perfect van for me yesterday and enquired to the dealer if it could be weighed (I’d cover all costs) but they said no
Has anyone had experience of getting a weighbridge ticket prior to purchase, or got any other ideas how I can get round this?

Anyone know the rough weight of an empty 2013 Rapido 891M or 2008 987M haha?!

Thanks
Jade.

 

[Guigsy]

Hi all,

I am looking to buy my first motorhome and have my heart set on a Rapido, in particular tan 891M.
I initially started off with something much smaller, however I will be living in this full time and after viewing various hymers and rapidos, I think the extra space will be needed.
I’ll happily do my license, but I want the van to be drivable on a car license, mainly so I can share the drives when out with my friends and family!
My issue is I need to know the motorhome can be downplated before I buy it. Have spoken to SVTech, they’ve said if an empty van has a weighbridge ticket of 3100kg or less, that it’s definitely doable.
I saw a perfect van for me yesterday and enquired to the dealer if it could be weighed (I’d cover all costs) but they said no
Has anyone had experience of getting a weighbridge ticket prior to purchase, or got any other ideas how I can get round this?

Anyone know the rough weight of an empty 2013 Rapido 891M or 2008 987M haha?!

Thanks
Jade.

It might technically be possible. But as soon as you put your stuff back it in, it'll become overweight, no? Full timing on 400kg won't be easy. Add passengers and I suspect you'll be well over.

 

[Riverbankannie]

Unfortunately all MHs vary not only on the model, but what options were originally chosen for that model. The only way is to get the actual van weighed.

 

[dunnah01]

As a rough guide the 992M is 3700kg 'unladen' weight - I think this is the French Poide a Vide which is about 100kg more than UK Unladen weight but still means you'd probably struggle to use a 3500kg van

Rapdio 992MH 2010 | Rapido Motorhomes 2010

 

[Fdhadi]

I think the 891M left the factory plated at 3.5t but only had 370kg payload before any extras were fitted.
Basically, useless unless up-rated.

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[Badknee]

Sorry but I think 3500 in a coachbuilt is just not possible. We’ve just spent five months in Spain in our pvc and went over the weighbridge @3754kg (we’re plated @4250kgs). Payload, payload, payload and plenty of it

 

[Brains]

Out of interest Simon Select

If a prospective buyer came to you, and you had done all the checks and they are ready to hand over the money but they buyer wants the current weight, in writing (or a weighbridge certificate) and the buyer is happy to pay a fee for either a statement or a certificate would you give them one ?
Or would you prefer to lose the sale ?

 

[Brains]

Surprisingly the Rapido 891M is sold in some places such as here areas as a 3500kg vehicle which for a 7.5m van is amazing.
So good in fact, that it's almost unbelievable.

(Our Hymer van, built on the same base vehicle is nearly a meter shorter and actually weighs 3.7t loaded).

I'm sure the 891M really is under 3500kg on the forecourt, however without an idea of what the current weight is, you can not calculate the payload, people, fuel, gas, some water, clothing, pots and pans, food, 'other stuff' etc.

I think the only way to full time under 3500kg will be to get a caravan, which if you are intending on staying in one place for multiple days (or even weeks) at a time, a caravan may be what you need.

 

[Emmit]

On your behalf I've done some trawling.
I found, amongst other stuff, a Rapido 891M
with a MTPLM of 3880kgs, (same as yours.)
It had a Merc. chassis and was in Trondheim, Norway.

The same advert said it had a payload of 750kgs.
However, take the 750kgs from 3880kgs and you get 3130kgs

Take that away that from 3500kgs, the weight you wish it to go
to and you have a payload of 270kgs

I appreciate that the above figure includes a tank of fuel and a
75kgs driver, (I lost 25kgs of the payload immediately) but it
doesn't include a big gas tank, clothing food, waste water,
a passenger, a dog and everything else that goes into it. Sorry but
you're on a loser.

Edit. the figures I have given MAY NOT! have included such stuff on yours
as, for instance, Awning, (35kgs) Bike rack, (10kgs) extra battery (22kgs)
Extra Solar panel (10kgs).

You may be down at 200kgs. No wonder the dealer didn't want you to know the result of a weigh in.

 

[Emmit]

Surprisingly the Rapido 891M is sold in some places such as here areas as a 3500kg vehicle which for a 7.5m van is amazing.
So good in fact, that it's almost unbelievable.

(Our Hymer van, built on the same base vehicle is nearly a meter shorter and actually weighs 3.7t loaded).

I'm sure the 891M really is under 3500kg on the forecourt, however without an idea of what the current weight is, you can not calculate the payload, people, fuel, gas, some water, clothing, pots and pans, food, 'other stuff' etc.

I think the only way to full time under 3500kg will be to get a caravan, which if you are intending on staying in one place for multiple days (or even weeks) at a time, a caravan may be what you need.

I think, that's because the 891M comes with two engine sizes. (plus the Merc 2.2)
(Its a bit like the Burstner Aviano of different years.)

I had one, (Burstner) and John W was two pitches away at Pershore.
Even a good look would find it difficult to differentiate andunderstand
why his, out of the factory, had a MTPLM of 3500kgs and ours, had
a MPTLM of 4000kgs.
When we bought ours it had been downplated to 3500kgs.
All I can say is that the previous owners must have frequented naturist sites.
I later found out that they had not used their van in the 'normal' sense, (what is normal?)

They used theirs as occommodation when being full time stewards on sites.

John's had a 2.3lts engine, Ours had a 3Lts.

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[Nanniemate]

Family and friends driving it. Living in it full time maybe check the cost of insurance as well as the weight.

I think those figures may be really scarey.

Good luck keep us updated please and pics when you make your choice we like pics

 

[gus-lopez]

and enquired to the dealer if it could be weighed (I’d cover all costs) but they said no

I would have insisted on knowing why not?

 

[Simon Select]

Out of interest Simon Select

If a prospective buyer came to you, and you had done all the checks and they are ready to hand over the money but they buyer wants the current weight, in writing (or a weighbridge certificate) and the buyer is happy to pay a fee for either a statement or a certificate would you give them one ?
Or would you prefer to lose the sale ?

If a customer asked for it we would provide one!

 

[Emmit]

I would have insisted on knowing why not?

I think we know why not. The dealer smells blood and it isn't his.

 

[Puddleduck]

If the dealer refused to weigh the van I am guessing he knows it is either over or nearly over the weight limit.

I saw a beautiful van at a dealers a few years ago and asked about weight. They took it to a weighbridge for me and found it was already over the maximum weight as on the forecourt. The dealer was very honest and said he would have to have it up-plated before he could sell it and thanked me for bringing it to his attention. I often wonder what happened to that van........ I loved it but Martin didn't.

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[JadeCM]

Family and friends driving it. Living in it full time maybe check the cost of insurance as well as the weight.

I think those figures may be really scarey.

Good luck keep us updated please and pics when you make your choice we like pics

Thanks for the heads up, but I have checked insurance etc. I won’t be insuring anyone but myself full time (unless a named driver of a family will bring the premium down as I’m still quite young). £850 for the year I can cope with.
Friends or family who are coming on an adventure will be covering their own insurance if they want to be able to drive, with a temporary cover policy.
I’m doing incredible amounts of research on everything to do with vans and van life- this is a huge lifestyle change and so I want everything covered
Super exciting times.

 

[Lenny HB]

A 6.5m A Class is about the max size you could run at 3500kg and then it would probably need to be one of the cheaper budget vans that Rapido at 7.5m no chance.
If it is only you in the van you for full timing you probably need at least 700 to 800kg of payload and for two of you another 200 - 300 kg.

Thanks for the heads up, but I have checked insurance etc. I won’t be insuring anyone but myself full time (unless a named driver of a family will bring the premium down as I’m still quite young). £850 for the year I can cope with.

Are you sure that is proper full time insurance? I would expect it to be around £2000.

 

[97243]

This is something we have found out the hard way. Our 6.65m Esterel plated at 3500kg tips the scales at 3700kg when only moderately loaded.

I have posted about this elsewhere, but my C1 entitlement has been lost on exchanging a UK licence for a French one, so we can't up-plate.

That said, it seems that most A classes in France appear to run at 3500kg and must be well overweight, but nobody appears to care.

We could just ignore the situation and carry on as everyone else or sell the van.

We have looked at alternative MH's, but we would need to settle for something much smaller to be remotely close to being legal. Having enjoyed the A class for what it is, I feel that trading down would be a compromise too far.

 

[97243]

Thanks for the heads up, but I have checked insurance etc. I won’t be insuring anyone but myself full time (unless a named driver of a family will bring the premium down as I’m still quite young). £850 for the year I can cope with.
Friends or family who are coming on an adventure will be covering their own insurance if they want to be able to drive, with a temporary cover policy.
I’m doing incredible amounts of research on everything to do with vans and van life- this is a huge lifestyle change and so I want everything covered
Super exciting times.

A 6.5m A Class is about the max size you could run at 3500kg and then it would probably need to be one of the cheaper budget vans that Rapido at 7.5m no chance.
If it is only you in the van you for full timing you probably need at least 700 to 800kg of payload and for two of you another 200 - 300 kg.


Are you sure that is proper full time insurance? I would expect it to be around £2000.

Additionally, would someone else driving on their own insurance have fully comprehensive cover, or just third party ? If so, it's an expensive risk to take.

 

[JadeCM]

Wow thanks for all the comments and help guys. Think I need to make a decision on whether I want to live in luxury or get something a bit smaller but more suitable for the road trips and tagalongs ;-)

I went to see a 2007 Rapido 986M yesterday that had already been downplated. It had a lovely couple who were living in it full time, just ending an 8 month tour of Europe. They said with all their belongings in there and an extra gas bottle, they still came in at 3500kg (just!)
So this model will defo do the job for me. I just got sidetracked by the fact the 2013 ones look so much more modern! There is an equivalent model to the 986M that’s newer, however I am yet to find one! Looks like I’ll have to exercise some good patience and wait for something to come up.

Thanks very much for the help, I really appreciate it.
Jade

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[JadeCM]

Additionally, would someone else driving on their own insurance have fully comprehensive cover, or just third party ? If so, it's an expensive risk to take.

No they wouldn’t be on their own insurance. It would be a temporary cover policy- fully comp. I definitely won’t be risking my home haha.
The only people I would remotely trust to drive would be my dad (hgv driver) or someone equally as experienced.

 

[Nanniemate]

Thanks for the heads up, but I have checked insurance etc. I won’t be insuring anyone but myself full time (unless a named driver of a family will bring the premium down as I’m still quite young). £850 for the year I can cope with.
Friends or family who are coming on an adventure will be covering their own insurance if they want to be able to drive, with a temporary cover policy.
I’m doing incredible amounts of research on everything to do with vans and van life- this is a huge lifestyle change and so I want everything covered
Super exciting times.

I agree with Lenny HB that sounds exceptionally good value. How much contents is on it . Remember anything that is not attached to the van is not covered usually its about £300 included. If your full time you will not have home contents cover for any personal items away from the house - assuming you don't have a house . The insurance won't cover a basic laptop if something was to happen

In my younger days I would have said what the hell let's go for it .but as we get older we get more cautious. Don't be put off by us old codgers but please do keep us updated it's great to see young people having adventures

 

[Emmit]

Found on the net.

If the one you're looking at is newer, you can bet it will be heavier. This one is 2002

Rapido Le Randonneur 986m sizes​

The information shows the sizes / dimensions for the motor caravan in a range of measurements to make the information as helpful as possible.

Spec	Metres	Centremetres	Feet	Inches
Length	6.6m	660 cm	21.648 ft	259.842 "
Width	2.29m	229 cm	7.5112 ft	90.1573 "
Height	2.82m	282 cm	9.2496 ft	111.0234 "

Rapido Le Randonneur 986m weights​

Weight	Kgs	CWT (hundred weight)
Unlaiden weight	3160 kgs	62.201852545 cwt
Payload	340 kgs ???	6.69260438775 cwt
Laiden weight	3500 kgs	68.8944569327 cwt

 

[JadeCM]

Found on the net.

If the one you're looking at is newer, you can bet it will be heavier. This one is 2002

Rapido Le Randonneur 986m sizes​

The information shows the sizes / dimensions for the motor caravan in a range of measurements to make the information as helpful as possible.

​

Spec	Metres	Centremetres	Feet	Inches
Length	6.6m	660 cm	21.648 ft	259.842 "
Width	2.29m	229 cm	7.5112 ft	90.1573 "
Height	2.82m	282 cm	9.2496 ft	111.0234 "

Rapido Le Randonneur 986m weights​

​

Weight	Kgs	CWT (hundred weight)
Unlaiden weight	3160 kgs	62.201852545 cwt
Payload	340 kgs ???	6.69260438775 cwt
Laiden weight	3500 kgs	68.8944569327 cwt

Thanks for the info, the model I would be looking at that is newer is the 2013 983M if I can actually find one.
The unladen weight on that one is 3105kg, so yes it’s tight- but doable, SVTech are happy with that and seeing the couple living in theirs yesterday within the limit I know this is possible.

I am not going to be travelling around constantly, it will be stationary on campsites for long periods of time around east Anglia ( it’s where I work so need to be commutable- I have a company car that I will continue to drive around everyday as normal) and then obviously the weekends are for the adventures. So the van won’t be loaded up to it’s eyeballs all the time, infact I can easily make sure the tanks are empty if I’m only moving from one campsite to the next an hour away

I just need to track one down. I want to get the best possible layout and most modern model I possibly can for my budget.

It may be that I just admit defeat and resign myself to the fact I will get my license and be the only driver aside from my dad the odd occasion.

 

[nicholsong]

Hi all,

I am looking to buy my first motorhome and have my heart set on a Rapido, in particular tan 891M.
I initially started off with something much smaller, however I will be living in this full time and after viewing various hymers and rapidos, I think the extra space will be needed.
I’ll happily do my license, but I want the van to be drivable on a car license, mainly so I can share the drives when out with my friends and family!
My issue is I need to know the motorhome can be downplated before I buy it. Have spoken to SVTech, they’ve said if an empty van has a weighbridge ticket of 3100kg or less, that it’s definitely doable.
I saw a perfect van for me yesterday and enquired to the dealer if it could be weighed (I’d cover all costs) but they said no
Has anyone had experience of getting a weighbridge ticket prior to purchase, or got any other ideas how I can get round this?

Anyone know the rough weight of an empty 2013 Rapido 891M or 2008 987M haha?!

Thanks
Jade.

No they wouldn’t be on their own insurance. It would be a temporary cover policy- fully comp. I definitely won’t be risking my home haha.
The only people I would remotely trust to drive would be my dad (hgv driver) or someone equally as experienced.

Jade the two parts of your posts that I have highlighted seem to be incompatible.

If you would only trust your dad or somebody with HGV experience to drive, then why would you want to keep down to 3500kg to share the driving with family and friends on their car licence?

You say you are willing to do the C1 licence. If you do then you can go for a heavier van and till let dad, and similar, drive it. You will then have no payload worries and can choose a comfortable van for full-timing.

The van is for your life - do not buy one for 'family and friends' !

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[Lenny HB]

The unladen weight on that one is 3105kg, so yes it’s tight- but doable, SVTech are happy with that and seeing the couple living in theirs yesterday within the limit I know this is possible.

There is a difference between unladen weight and MIRO payload is normally quoted against MIRO which is normally around 150kg heavier than unladen weight.
MIRO normally includes a driver at 75kg, only 20 Lt of water a single 11 kg gas aluminium gas bottle. 20 Lt of water is naff all, most people have 2 steel gas bottles and 13 kg ones in the UK, just the gas bottle you have lost about 23 kg. As said if it has an awning another 35 to 40 kg lost, a spare wheel 25 to 30 kg.. That is why you need 700kg over MIRO or 850 kg over unladen weight.

 

[JadeCM]

Jade the two parts of your posts that I have highlighted seem to be incompatible.

If you would only trust your dad or somebody with HGV experience to drive, then why would you want to keep down to 3500kg to share the driving with family and friends on their car licence?

You say you are willing to do the C1 licence. If you do then you can go for a heavier van and till let dad, and similar, drive it. You will then have no payload worries and can choose a comfortable van for full-timing.

The van is for your life - do not buy one for 'family and friends' !

I completely understand why you would think this- you’re totally correct.

However, there is method to my madness- there are very few people I would trust, but there are a couple that I would!! They have driven motor homes, large diggers and machinery etc and towed all manner of things that are permissible on a car license. They are just a little too young to have automatically the C license. I would trust them to drive it more than myself haha. Infact when it comes to picking up my new purchase I’d very much like someone there who could take the reins if required, this will be very new to me. And importantly they live locally- which is super important as I live 5hours away from my family(dad).

I like the peace of mind knowing if I needed help in a pinch that I’m not stuck here being the only one who can move my home that’s all.

It may be that I get a big one and just suck it up. I’m weighing up all my options right now

Thanks
Jade.

 

[JadeCM]

There is a difference between unladen weight and MIRO payload is normally quoted against MIROI which is normally around 150kg heavier than unladen weight.
MIRO normally includes a driver at 75kg, only 20 Lt of water a single 11 kg gas aluminium gas bottle. 20 Lt of water is naff all, most people have 2 steel gas bottles and 13 kg ones in the UK, just the gas bottle you have lost about 23 kg. As said if it has an awning another 35 to 40 kg lost, a spare wheel 25 to 30 kg.. That is why you need 700kg over MIRO or 850 kg over unladen weight.

Thanks,
The unladen weight I quoted there is from the Rapido brochure and states it includes the person, water etc. so it is the MIRO value you’re talking about.

 

[Emmit]

Thanks for the info, the model I would be looking at that is newer is the 2013 983M if I can actually find one.
The unladen weight on that one is 3105kg, so yes it’s tight- but doable, SVTech are happy with that and seeing the couple living in theirs yesterday within the limit I know this is possible.

I am not going to be travelling around constantly, it will be stationary on campsites for long periods of time around east Anglia ( it’s where I work so need to be commutable- I have a company car that I will continue to drive around everyday as normal) and then obviously the weekends are for the adventures. So the van won’t be loaded up to it’s eyeballs all the time, infact I can easily make sure the tanks are empty if I’m only moving from one campsite to the next an hour away

I just need to track one down. I want to get the best possible layout and most modern model I possibly can for my budget.

It may be that I just admit defeat and resign myself to the fact I will get my license and be the only driver aside from my dad the odd occasion.

In the above post you said,

"Thanks for the info, the model I would be looking at that is newer is the 2013 983M if I can actually find one.
The unladen weight on that one is 3105kg,"

I have highlighted something that rings an alarm bell.

I appreciate that I am seemingly a 'Gloom and Doom' merchant.
All I am doing is attempting to prevent you making a faux pas that,
over the years, me and other Funsters have read has occurred to
peeps in exactly your position.

I know I'm nit picking but you used the phrase 'Unladen weight'
The 'Unladen Weigh't of van is the weight of the van as it rolled off
the assembly line as a standard build without any of the so called
'Bells and Whistles' ie a 2nd battery, a solar panel, an awning. It
could be anything.

It doesn't include the driver (or 75kgs) It doesn't include the 90%
of a full fuel tank. It doesn't include any water in that tank.
It doesn't include the gas bottle.

The last paragraph is included in the Mass in Running Order or
MIRO. That and the Unladen Weight can be therefore seen as two totally
different things.

The only thing that relates (as far as I know) with regard to Unladen Weight
is that, if a motorhome weighs less than 3.05 tonnes unladen weight, 9and who
knows what that is as soon as anything is screwed, bolted, put on or in the
van,) then it does not have limitations as to speed limits when in use.

Edit.
As usual Lenny HB beat me to it.

 

[JadeCM]

Hey, thanks for the explanation. Makes sense.
I’m just going on what the brochure states, providing I am understanding it correctly- it may be that I’m not! This is all new to me afterall.