How a simple cambelt replacement led to an engine disaster some 10 months later.

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Being the owner of an old Hymer, in January 2023 I had the cambelt changed by a recognised garage in Bulwell, Notts. I'd been meaning to fo it for quite some time.

From booking the work in to having the work done, took several weeks. In that time the garage changed hands. And the new owner and his staff seemed very able. Indeed, they were expanding and had got the local large courier companies work--with plenty of cambelt work undertaken. They assured me that the Fiat "copy" cambelt was just as good as the Fiat original. And so had the original garage owners, having had no come back ever on a cambelt over decades. So I went ahead.

Come December 2023 I had covered only some 1000 since the cambelt was fitted. And it broke, causing serious damage to the upper half of the engine, all on Boxing Day, 100 miles from home.

There is of course no way of knowing if it was the belt or the installation being tightened incorrectly. Either way, I wish I'd had a Fiat belt. Then I wouldn't have this "What if?" In my head.

As I was being towed back to London the recovery driver told me of a great garage that his boss uses for all his recovery vehicles. They were efficient, professional and did a first class job. He suggested that yhe work shouldn't take much more than a week. The garage owner confirmed as much on the drivers phone speaker. So before reaching London and my regular garage, who would have taken perhaps 3 weeks, we detoured to the new garage just off the London Road, near junction 7 of the M11.

I won't go into details, but they had my motorhome for just over 3 months. They were hard to reach and hardly ever picked up the phone. But the work has been done, hopefully correctly, at an originally detailed cost of £5200, which they say they had reduced by £500 due to the delay I had experienced.

On visiting the site to collect my Hymer, several recovery vehicles were dropping off vehicles. The penny dropped, the recovery drivers are on commission to get unsuspecting types like me, to this "garage" where english is barely understood or spoken.
And I said this to the guy who took my money, and he didn't disagree.

And then there was the VAT invoice. The limited company name on the invoice was, and never has been, registered at companies house. I'm not completely daft, I always check things like this.
When I mentioned this to the garage "owner", my payment was reduced to £4500 after a bit of a rant by me.

There's a moral here somewhere, and I think it's simply don't trust anyone, sad as it is.
And the recovery driver seemed such a nice guy!
 
Sorry to hear your problems, I hope the repair lasts, you should have taken it back to the garage that did the cambelt has you should of had a claim with them as it didn't even last a year.
I always used to go for cheap nowdays with a Ducato I spend the extra at a Fiat Professional knowing I'll get a decent warranty.
 
that's awful. Presumably this wasn't AA or similar recovery company? but did they outsource it? If so might be worth letting them know what the scam is. Although, is it a scam? time will tell I suppose when you get up and running over a good few miles to test if the repair is good as we of course all have a choice. I hope it works out for you.
 
I only trust the mechanic I've used for the last 20 years and he only uses genuine parts. He always gives me a copy of the invoice for the parts he uses. I would definitely not accept a copy cambelt to be fitted as failure can be an engine destroyer.

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a sad experience for you.

however, what has being a registered limited company got to do with a VAT invoice ? a sole trader can be VAT registered.

OK they appear to be fiddling things but they may in fact be VAT registered. Given the turnover they would certainly exceed the threshold.
 
My local independent workshop was happy for me to supply genuine Volkswagen parts still in their original packaging when they did the last cam belt & water pump change for me. That way I retained the VW parts two year guarantee but a much better labour rate for the job.
I always use the same workshop for my MOTs where I ask the tester to let me know if he sees anything outside the requirements of the MOT that require attention to let me know. It rarely happens but if it does he calls me into the inspection bay to show me whet he has spotted.
 
Hi. Read your post ,sorry for your expensive problems.as a retired vehicle tec. It would be highly unlikely that the none genuine belt failed due to quality,most probably due to belt being too tight ( bad tec.) you should have claimed garage
 
Sorry to read this.
I agree with this sentence:
simply don't trust anyone
I'll have to do my first service of the new van in a few weeks, and it's going to be a new garage I haven't used before, and whose reputation is unknown to me, but I have not any choice as is the only Fiat Professional in my area.
🤞🤞

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I fitted a cambelt on my Vauxhall nova years ago, it squeeked when it was too tight, so I loosened it a bit 😊 only one I've ever fitted.
 
Common problem is overtight cambelts, that causes more failiure than loose ones .
loose ones fray quicker but can last years , tight ones snap or mess up the bearings that then seize and cause the belt to snap ,,, seen that on a mates Ducati 996 , i rebuilt the rear head for him the roller bearing on belt tensioner was solid ,put ne ones in on both cylinders , new belts etc , also needed 2 bent valves replacing etc luckily the piston was OK
 
Gates make the belts for FIAT and Ducati ,, I have done about 70 Ducati belt changes .. and 4 on cars
That's interesting . How many hours should we be charged for a cambelt replacement on a 2.3 Ducato bodied van and do you think it's neccessary to change te waterpump at the same intervals.

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That's interesting . How many hours should we be charged for a cambelt replacement on a 2.3 Ducato bodied van and do you think it's neccessary to change te waterpump at the same intervals.
6 hours, water pump Fiat say is good for the life of the engine. Same time for PVC or A Class most of the work is done from underneath on a ramp.
 
I did my own belt in Germany using the van ramp levelers and a jack to suport the engine. Took the mount out, hardest thing was the crankshaft pulley nut, but it came loose with a bar. Had all the tools borrowed from the garage including the cam lock and did it in just over two hrs, including water pump. I did had some help, but, a garage one man with all the tools, I cant see where it spends more than 2 hrs for this kind of job.
 
I must have changed hundreds over the years...never used genuine or no name..conti,gates etc never had a premature failure.Regardless of what manufacturers say always changed waterpump if cambelt driven,usually not a big job....Will manufacturer pay for engine rebuild if waterpump bearings fail or labour and replacement if seals fail ??? I doubt it particularly on an older or higher mileage vehicle.Just as they won't pay if a belt fails before the recommended change time.It's a recommendation /advice not a guarantee.
You could take them to court but do you want that risk ,with today's legal fees, especially over a £50 waterpump &1/2 hour labour ?
 
6 hours, water pump Fiat say is good for the life of the engine. Same time for PVC or A Class most of the work is done from underneath on a ramp.
So called Fiat Professional say 6 hours. Had mine done on the drive by ex Fiat tech using genuine Fiat Kit including water pump. Took about 3 hours. Apart from the hourly rate of a Fiat Professional garage it's almost fraud charging 6 hours labour
 
On a Ducati its 30 minutes, water cooled Duactis dont have a water pump they have an Impellor but that is not replaced unless it ever breaks , never seen that , on a Fiat van I should say maximum 3 hours to change cam belts and water pump

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Should have also said aux belt tensioner and if fitted idler bearings should be inspected with a critical eye and replaced if reqd.
Very inconvenient if either fails on the road and have been known to cause cambelt failure.
Also very annoying and worrying if they start squeaking
 
Charged 4hrs by local garage to fit timing belt kit.
I looked at removed parts and no discernable wear.
 
We had the same but it was the cambelt tensioner bolts that snapped so returned to garage that did the belt and he said if it was something we had done he would cover the cost and he did but did say as he wasn’t getting paid it might take a bit of time but only took about a month.
 
I've watched a very hassled local mechanic do my belt and pulley in less than 2 hours. With a floor jack. In through the wheel well. Sitting on the floor. I dropped the van with them and agreed to pick it up in 2 days. When I arrived, it was still parked where I left it. The boss and the mechanic shouted at one another for 5 mins before the mechanic just got on with it while I watched.
 
I've watched a very hassled local mechanic do my belt and pulley in less than 2 hours. With a floor jack. In through the wheel well. Sitting on the floor. I dropped the van with them and agreed to pick it up in 2 days. When I arrived, it was still parked where I left it. The boss and the mechanic shouted at one another for 5 mins before the mechanic just got on with it while I watched.
With the great varience in times it makes one wonder if correct procedures are carried out. Or maybe there are shortcuts that the experienced tech can make.

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So called Fiat Professional say 6 hours. Had mine done on the drive by ex Fiat tech using genuine Fiat Kit including water pump. Took about 3 hours. Apart from the hourly rate of a Fiat Professional garage it's almost fraud charging 6 hours labour
Adams Morey did mine it took them about 5½ hours.
 
Shame that most Fiat Ducatos had chain cam drives instead of belts, apart from the odd noisy tensioner, they were worry free and lasted many years before needing to be changed, if at all.
Cam belts can snap at any time on any engine, we just don't need the expense or the worry of changing them inside their recommended service interval, then also be concerned that its done properly by whoever.
One of the reasons why I have bought Chain Cam drive BMW cars for the last 40 years, if there was an option to pay extra on a new MH engine to have a chain drive, I for one would go for it, as I guess many others would.
LES
 
Shame that most Fiat Ducatos had chain cam drives instead of belts, apart from the odd noisy tensioner, they were worry free and lasted many years before needing to be changed, if at all.
Cam belts can snap at any time on any engine, we just don't need the expense or the worry of changing them inside their recommended service interval, then also be concerned that its done properly by whoever.
One of the reasons why I have bought Chain Cam drive BMW cars for the last 40 years, if there was an option to pay extra on a new MH engine to have a chain drive, I for one would go for it, as I guess many others would.
LES
Lots of BMWs suffer cam chain issues. N47 is renowned for it. Chains stretch, tensioners fail, guides wear. And then the cost is much higher than a new belt. Some chained engines are well engineered, but others, not so much. It's not a universal silver bullet.
 
Shame that most Fiat Ducatos had chain cam drives instead of belts, apart from the odd noisy tensioner, they were worry free and lasted many years before needing to be changed, if at all.
Cam belts can snap at any time on any engine, we just don't need the expense or the worry of changing them inside their recommended service interval, then also be concerned that its done properly by whoever.
One of the reasons why I have bought Chain Cam drive BMW cars for the last 40 years, if there was an option to pay extra on a new MH engine to have a chain drive, I for one would go for it, as I guess many others would.
LES
Having changed umpteen belts and various chains including the pig job 3 chains on the Alfa/Fiat alloytec V6 the jury is still out, although I'm happy with the chain on my 3.0l Ducato

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