Help with new A-Class insurance please

[DuxDeluxe]

After having read about that system, we are actually planning to travel there when we get our van just to get that system

You won't regret it. Best alarm system there is and the nicest most professional people as well

 

[BishBosh]

Well, just to update Minxy Girl with my quotes this morning. We have been quoted for the full value of the MH at around £80k (not what we paid) most new vehicles are usually covered new for old in the first two years and our motorhome is included in this. No need for gap....
No requirement for tracker etc but is recommended. Including euro cover we have £640 from safeguard and £540 from NFU. I have some ncb to add so might bring the premium down some more.
NFu insure some of my company so I’m going with them as they also do 10 months interest free instalments
Breakdown cover is included in both for the UK but probably not needed due to Fiat cover on a new van.
Hope that helps.

 

[pandas]

Just to add..........
As stated above, watch the windscreen cover.
For some reason Carthago’s seem to have a magnetic attraction to stones.
We’ve had three new screens in just over four years. I know of other owners who have also found that their Carthago’s seemed to have more that their fair share of windscreen chips.
A genuine Bertone screen can cost up to £3k, more if the fitters damage the side trims.

Richard

Safeguard now want windscreen excess of £100 up from £10 last year. No limit though so still worth it in my view.

 

[pandas]

No matter if the insurance company requires it or not it would anyhow give me a piece of mind to have a tracker (for my motorhome not yours!)

 

[Wagoneer]

I've never used Fiat Assist but a member of Carthago Owners UK had big problems.

Their new van broke down just outside Paris with an engine problem. Fiat Assist involved Carthago in the negotiations (for some reason). A squabble developed which slowed resolution of the problem. They ended up camped in the garage compound for 4 weeks.

They wished they'd taken out a separate breakdown policy to give themselves more voice in getting the problem sorted quickly. This may have been an unfortunate one-off trauma but Fiat do have a track record of making life difficult for their customers where claims are involved. Just saying !!!

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[Themselves]

Did they refit a new module whilst you were travelling to Denmark n Sweden or when you returned to the UK ?

Kath

This shows how important it is to check things. Didn’t realise it wasn’t working until a month later. I had a sudden thought that the alert call had not come through. Logged on and only then noticed it wasn’t working.

 

[PJGWiltshire]

The Chichester branch of NFU is good with Motorhomes my mate recently insured his Carthago E- Line with them . What may effect your decision is NFU will only cover Croatia 3rd party.
For us NFU were a few hundred quid more than Comfort so may work out cheaper to fit a tracker.

Also with NFU through Chichester with the Chic c Line did not require tracker although I had one as I took it if my previous van. Belts and braces forked out to Eddies retirement fund and has the Growler fitted. My tracker annual fee is £120. Caravan and Motorhome also do not require tracker. NFU have some small print re Morocco and Croatia the green card is third party only

 

[MichaelT]

We had same issue with Comfort, got a Vodafone Cat 5 VTS tracker was Cobra I think before, with the driver token and remote engine cut off, £600 install inc first year subscription. There is an app (my connected car) that yo can see where the van is, it shows where you have been, speed etc. Special mode for ferries, garage etc. Did stop working when in France, they sent engineer out who changed it all OK since, I think it was an old unit fitted that needed a software update that sort or stalled.

 

[Jagtazman]

If someone broken into and stole our vehicle I wouldn’t want it back.

I would it would still have all my personal goods in it some which may be hard to replace.
Why anyone would spend £75k+ on a MH and not install a tracker is beyond me.
Personal perference I suppose.
BTW I would go for the top of the range S5 tracker rather than Cat5, worth the extra imho
Most insurers will prefer S5 in any event

 

[Jagtazman]

We have given up telling Comfort. EVERY Category Five & Category Six tracking system was delisted by Thatcham Dec 2019

If installed before then? Fine, now it simply isn’t approved anymore and should not be installed on a 2019 vehicle. You will need Thatcham VTS


Ours have anti jamming technology, although jamming isn’t the issue many think it is, hence the insurance industries reliance on them

having gone through a tortuous insurance claim last year, and that many tracked vehicles are recovered in hours, all intact including the personal effects and contents, I would.

S5 tracker is the way forward.
As an insurance broker I can confirm majority of insurers are insisting on S5 trackers now on all high profile/high performance cars.

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[Minxy]

Does anyone have a Smarttrack tracker?

Car Trackers | Immobilisers & Alarms | Safe & Sound Vehicle Systems

Find our range of insurance-approved vehicle trackers, immobilisers and alarms. Find the perfect car or fleet tracker pus car/van alarms.

www.sasmobile.co.uk

 

[bigtree]

Something you didn’t think about when you spent that much money on a van was that it comes at a price, did you not think that insurance companies would just give you cover for two bob ? ?

 

[Abacist]

I have just renewed my Metatrak at £64.95 per annum which is the system where it tells you where your van is but is not a tracking system as generally accepted in that there is nobody to report your van's theft to and then track and advise the police. Metatrak also provides the engine block and unblock facility at the press of a few buttons on your phone, either at the van or remotely.

I have Trackstar as my tracker where there is a team to track your vehicle and keep the police informed leading to its prompt recovery. Not been asked for a renewal on that so maybe I paid for it up front or for three years or something.

Both obtained from VanBitz along with the Growler alarm system.

 

[Minxy]

We have given up telling Comfort. EVERY Category Five & Category Six tracking system was delisted by Thatcham Dec 2019

If installed before then? Fine, now it simply isn’t approved anymore and should not be installed on a 2019 vehicle. You will need Thatcham VTS

I assume you mean December 2018 and it is just because of the name change (same systems though)?:

Thatcham Category S7 - This is the new name for Thatcham Category 6 devices as of January 2019. ​

Thatcham Tracker Categories 5, S5, 6, 7 & S7 Trackers | Car & GPS Trackers

Thatcham Trackers are known as the best insurance approved trackers nationwide. Just check out this article about S7 trackers and other trackers.

www.sasmobile.co.uk

The systems (albeit with the new name) are still shown as being approved by Thatcham so why are you saying they aren't? From what I've read there are Asset Location Systems (ALS) and Vehicle Tracking Systems (VTS), the latter being what you are talking about I think.

What I can't understand though is why when I go on the Thatcham site and look you up in the list of manufacturers it only gives details of the certification of one of your systems. Am I missing something/doing something wrong?

Thatcham Security Certifications - Thatcham Research

Thatcham Security Certification is a robust verification programme for the assessment and recognition of automotive security products. The certification concentrates...

www.thatcham.org

 

[Minxy]

Something you didn’t think about when you spent that much money on a van was that it comes at a price, did you not think that insurance companies would just give you cover for two bob ? ?

That's a low blow! ? Yes we did think about it and put funds aside for it but having never had a MH of this value we didn't know that a tracker was a requirement and it seems for some companies it is, others not, same with alarms, hence my query, I never said we didn't have money to pay for it now did I!

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[Minxy]

I have just renewed my Metatrak at £64.95 per annum which is the system where it tells you where your van is but is not a tracking system as generally accepted in that there is nobody to report your van's theft to and then track and advise the police. Metatrak also provides the engine block and unblock facility at the press of a few buttons on your phone, either at the van or remotely.

I have Trackstar as my tracker where there is a team to track your vehicle and keep the police informed leading to its prompt recovery. Not been asked for a renewal on that so maybe I paid for it up front or for three years or something.

Both obtained from VanBitz along with the Growler alarm system.

Why do you need both systems?

 

[Abacist]

The Metatrak is the day to day control of the alarm system and it tells you if the alarm has gone off whilst you are not at the van. You also use it to block and unblock the engine start facility - you turn the key in the ignition and literally nothing happens from the engine - dead as a dodo! It does loads of other things as well like keep journey records, records your GPS position on a map etc. which you can check whilst away from the van.

The Trackstar is only ever used really to report the van stolen to the tracking company who then track it and liaise with the police for its recovery.

 

[Mr Chrysalis]

I’d be giving it the full Vanbitz Growler treatment regardless of insurer requirements, I think a tracker is then circa £199 if added to the install.

In fact we just did, but ended up being up sold from regular tracker to the non-starter system.

Easily led by tech toys, me! ?

I may be wrong, but I don’t think that either the MetaTrak Non-Starter or the Growler satisfy Insurance Companies who require a Tracker. Don’t get me wrong, I have both, but I also kept my subscription to Trackstar going after I got the non-starter installed, as that does satisfy the insurance requirements.

 

[gus-lopez]

Why anyone would spend £75k+ on a MH and not install a tracker is beyond me.

Why would anyone want anything back that some chav has been in? My house would go if it was burgled. I install a tracker so if it was stolen I could trace it & await there return.

 

[Abacist]

I insure with NFU a 5 year old N + B which cost over £80k. I insure 8k miles per annum with 3 drivers and the premium is £376 after NCB and after the Vanbitz alarm and tracker systems were fitted. I reckon that's a good deal. They did not insist on the alarm or tracker etc but then gave a good discount when I told them about it.

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[Mr Chrysalis]

I have just renewed my Metatrak at £64.95 per annum which is the system where it tells you where your van is but is not a tracking system as generally accepted in that there is nobody to report your van's theft to and then track and advise the police. Metatrak also provides the engine block and unblock facility at the press of a few buttons on your phone, either at the van or remotely.

I have Trackstar as my tracker where there is a team to track your vehicle and keep the police informed leading to its prompt recovery. Not been asked for a renewal on that so maybe I paid for it up front or for three years or something.

Both obtained from VanBitz along with the Growler alarm system.

You can email Trackstar and they will reply with your renewal date. Mine was 3 years

 

[Minxy]

I'm getting more and more confused with all of this! Perhaps I should just not buy the Carthago and put all my stuff back in the Campscout ...

 

[Nixdorfer]

Confused.. Ours isn't an A class but when I rang NFU to insure our MH they didn't really want to do it, but added it onto my traders policy as a stopgap after some persuasion only with no contents cover. They told me its not really their thing and I'd be much better ringing round and getting proper motorhome cover from somewhere else.

They seem to vary a lot from branch to branch then

 

[Stanbrook]

Caravan Guard approved motorhome tracking devices
Underneath this table are some tips on what to look for when buying a tracking device. These devices are acceptable for motorhomes insured for up to £85,000 in value. For higher value motorhomes please contact Caravan Guard for information.
Search 53 tracking devices :

Selected countries

24hr monitored / not proactive

Name	EU	Pro	Cert
Autowatch (Track & Trace 1)			Thatcham S7
Autowatch (Track & Trace 5)			Thatcham S5
CobraTrak (S5) Request more info			Thatcham S5
Hal-Locate (Hal 1000 - must be ProActive) Request more info			Previously Thatcham CAT 6
Meta Trak(S5 V2)			Thatcham S5
Meta Trak(S7)			Thatcham S7
Phantom (Pro III / Sentinel / iTrack / iTrack OBD)			Previously Thatcham CAT 6
Scorpion (ScorpionTrack HD S7)			Thatcham S7
Scorpion (S5-VTS)			Thatcham S5
SmarTrack (Protector Plus / Protector Pro / Protector Pro Global / Trident) Request more info			Thatcham S7
SmarTrack (5 / 5DRS) Request more info			Thatcham S5
Sargent (Swift Command Tracker / Sargent Tracking (Auto-Trail Connect))			Thatcham S7
Teletrac Navman (Trackstar S5)			Thatcham S5
Teletrac Navman (Trackstar S7)			Thatcham S7
TRACKER (S5 Plus)			Thatcham S5
TRACKER (Locate / Monitor / Plus / Vantage)			Thatcham S7
Van Bitz (Shadow VTS)			Thatcham S5
Vodafone (Protect & Connect S5 / Protect & Connect S5 Plus)			Thatcham S5
Vodafone (Protect & Connect S7)			Thatcham S7
Older devices (Thatcham delisted or discontinued but still acceptable)
Autotxt (RVCS6)			Previously Thatcham CAT 6
British Tracking Systems (Predator)			Previously Thatcham CAT 5
CobraTrak (Plus / Plus Web / ADR / First / First Mobile / Q / Q Attivo)			Previously Thatcham CAT 6
CobraTrak (5 / 5 Web / NavTrak ADR 5)			Previously Thatcham CAT 5
Global Telematics Ltd (Group 999 CAT 5)			Previously Thatcham CAT 5
Metasystems (TVM CAT 5)			Previously Thatcham CAT 5
Masternaut (MCU2)			Previously Thatcham CAT 5
Meta Trak(5)			Previously Thatcham CAT 5
Meta Trak(6 / 6 V2 / VTS / TVM110 / Defcom Trak)			Previously Thatcham CAT 6
Neo-Trac (One)			Previously Thatcham CAT 5
Phantom (Pro II/Pro Active)			Previously Sold Secure
RedWeb Technologies Ltd (RX10)			Previously Thatcham CAT 5
Road Angel (Trac-It)			Previously Thatcham CAT 6
Scorpion (ScorpionTrack CAT 6 - ST50 / Scorpion Track HD CAT 6 - ST60 / Scorpion Track Fleet 'Secure' CAT 6 - ST70)			Previously Thatcham CAT 6
Scorpion (ScorpionTrack CAT 5 - ST55)			Previously Thatcham CAT 5
Scorpion (Pursue / 5)			Previously Thatcham CAT 5
SmarTrack (Alert24 / Toad Track TT1000)			Previously Thatcham CAT 6
SmarTrack (Alert24 Keyguard)			Previously Thatcham CAT 6
SmarTrack (CAT 5 / CAR 5 DRST / CAT 5 PRO DRS)			Previously Thatcham CAT 5
Trackstar (Trafficmaster)(TM100 / TM400 / TM450 / TM460)			Previously Thatcham CAT TQA
Teletrac Navman (Trackstar CAT 5)			Previously Thatcham CAT 5
Teletrac Navman (Trackstar Leisure / Trackstar CAT 6 / Trackstar Advance)			Previously Thatcham CAT 6
Toad (Toad Track 1000)			Previously Thatcham CAT 6
TRACKER (CAT 5 Plus)			Previously Thatcham CAT 5
TRACKER (Response)			Previously Thatcham CAT 6
TRACKER (Retrieve - battery powered) *Only accepted on certain models see below.			Previously Thatcham CAT 7
Trak (Global Solutions Ltd) (Swiftrak)			Previously Thatcham CAT 6
Trafficmaster (Trackstar 5)			Previously Thatcham CAT 6
Trafficmaster (Protector 2 / Trackstar TM470)			Previously Thatcham CAT 6
Vari-Trac (One)			Previously Thatcham CAT 5
Vodafone (Protect & Connect 5)			Previously Thatcham CAT 5
Vodafone (Protect & Connect 6)			Previously Thatcham CAT 6

If your tracking device doesn't appear on this list but you know it is Thatcham Category (CAT) S5, S7, CAT 5 or CAT 6 approved it is likely we will approve the device. Please call us to check this on 01422 396 769. If you are an existing customer and we have previously approved a device not on the approved list above, your motorhome insurance cover will remain in place providing your device remains operational.
*Tracker Retrieve only acceptable when fitted to:

• 2013 – 2016 models of Swift, Autocruise, Bessacarr and Escape Motorhomes.
• 2015 – 2019 models of Elddis Marquis Majestic range and Elddis Tyne Valley Signature range.
• 2018 - 2019 models of the Elddis Preston Supreme range.
• 2019 models of the Elddis Brownhills Evolution range.
• 2019 Glossop Chatsworth.

For fitment to other motorhomes please contact us.

Unaccepted tracking devices
Tracking Devices that are not accepted for motorhomes (for new customers) include:

• Any self track devices
• Any pay as you go track units
• Any self fitted device
• Glopos
• iMob
• Locator
• Mtrack
• Metis Trackers
• Navman

• Orchid
• Outsmart The Thief Defender
• Phantom Target/Non Pro Active
• Sky Tag Tracker
• SureTrack
• TrackBak
• Tracker Echo
• Tracker Horizon
• Trackstar Plus

Top tips when choosing a motorhome tracking device

• European cover
  Make sure the tracking device you choose can operate in the countries you plan to visit. There are different types of European cover offered by tracking devices. Some devices will simply be able to tell you the location of your motorhome when it is stolen abroad, whereas other devices offer full European monitoring and recovery with locally accredited monitoring centres to co-ordinate police response on your behalf in European countries.
• Proactive tracking devices
  Such devices can alert you and your tracking device company as soon as thieves disturb or move your motorhome, allowing for the quickest possible recovery.
• 24 hour monitoring centre
  Leave the monitoring and recovering to the professionals. We do not accept self monitored devices.
• Certifications
  Tracking devices that have been certified as Thatcham Category S5, S7, CAT 5 or CAT 6 approved – click here for details about security certifications.
• Low battery alert
  If your motorhome is not used for long periods, battery power to your tracking device could soon run out, rendering your tracking device useless. Some devices will alert you if battery power runs low.

Please note: The above comparison is for information only and is correct to the best of our knowledge. We do not accept any responsibility for any inaccuracies. We do not endorse or take responsibility for any product or service offered by the companies mentioned above.
Caravan Guard recognised tracking device certifications
Thatcham Category 6 approval (discontinued)
These tracking systems are monitored and due to their proactive nature can identify unauthorised movement of a motorhome. These devices allow a motorhome to be tracked by the monitoring service to precise street map level.
Thatcham Category 5 (discontinued)
These Tracking systems are designed specifically for powered vehicles such as motorhomes (not caravans) and are effective against the current trend of thieves breaking into houses to steal vehicle keys. Owners are supplied a separate driver identification tag or card which is intended to be kept separate from your motorhome keys. If your motorhome is moved using keys but the driver's identification tag is not present in the motorhome, the tracking device monitoring centre immediately identifies your motorhome as likely to be stolen. CAT 5 devices allow police to immobilise a stationary vehicle under controlled conditions. Such systems tend to be a more expensive to install and monitoring fees can cost more than a CAT 6 or 7 device.
S5 Category
Classed as vehicle tracking systems. It’s expected most devices that were Category 5 will migrate to S5 approval subject to Thatcham research centre testing. However, the S5 category removes the need for CAT 5 devices to have various functions such as remote engine immobilisation. Devices will still need to have a driver identification tag feature. We expect some previous Category 6 approved devices will add a driver identification tags and resubmit themselves for S5 approval.
S7 Category
Classed as asset location systems. This category largely combines previous Thatcham category 6 and 7 device standards into one. Subject to Thatcham testing many CAT 6 and 7 devices will become S7 approved.
Thatcham TQA (Thatcham Quality Assured) approval
Thatcham Quality Assured (TQA) tracking and location devices are tested to prove that the device meets minimum insurance requirements. The TQA accreditation was replaced by the CAT 6 and CAT 7 accreditations. There are certain devices (such as Trackstar TM100) that we continue to accept as they did carry TQA approval but which have since been superseded by newer devices that adhere to the latest standards..
Please note, we may still not accept a device that has one or more of these certifications. Please refer to the accepted device list above for more information.

Very confusing

 

[eddie]

I assume you mean December 2018 and it is just because of the name change (same systems though)?:

Yes I meant Dec 2018 but no,it wasn't just a name change. Driver I.D. are now incorporated, which the weren't on Cat Six and engine immobilisation is no longer mandatory, which it was on Cat Five

The systems (albeit with the new name) are still shown as being approved by Thatcham so why are you saying they aren't?

OK, imagine if we fitted a Thatcham approved alarm in 2000 on a 2000 registered motorhome. That system remains "Thatcham approved" forever, so in 2019 when asked "Does it have a Thatcham approved alarm system" The owner of the 2000 motorhome could say "Yes I have a Thatcham approved alarm system.

But, if we fitted that same alarm system in 2019 to a 2019 registered motorhome it wouldn't be Thatcham approved. In our stores we have Category Six and Category Five Tracking systems which we will keep for warranty, the same as we have spares for alarm systems going back to the Nineties, but, If we fitted a Thatcham Category Six tracking system, which was delisted in 2018 to a 2019 motorhome, in 2019, it wouldn't be Thatcham approved.

The chances are that no one at this stage would pick it up, as to be honest the Insurers have been woefully slow in updating their systems, but, in the event of the loss of an expensive motorhome (lets be honest there are Swifts now costing £150K) the underwriters will check everything, and that is when the problem will begin.

What I can't understand though is why when I go on the Thatcham site and look you up in the list of manufacturers it only gives details of the certification of one of your systems. Am I missing something/doing something wrong?

No, the web sites are updated from time to time and we had already been told that we have somehow been omitted, by one of the insurers that we work closely with. The guy that does our accreditation is working on it and we should be re-instated in a few days.

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[MichaelT]

I insure with NFU a 5 year old N + B which cost over £80k. I insure 8k miles per annum with 3 drivers and the premium is £376 after NCB and after the Vanbitz alarm and tracker systems were fitted. I reckon that's a good deal. They did not insist on the alarm or tracker etc but then gave a good discount when I told them about it.

I think the difference here is age of the van. For a new van the insurer is on the hook for new for old up to 2/3 years so they are going to have to pay out more than you paid for the van in say end of year 2 as the cost to replace the same van is likely to have gone up whereas with an older van their liability decreases each year?

 

[MichaelT]

The Metatrak is the day to day control of the alarm system and it tells you if the alarm has gone off whilst you are not at the van. You also use it to block and unblock the engine start facility - you turn the key in the ignition and literally nothing happens from the engine - dead as a dodo! It does loads of other things as well like keep journey records, records your GPS position on a map etc. which you can check whilst away from the van.

The Trackstar is only ever used really to report the van stolen to the tracking company who then track it and liaise with the police for its recovery.

Problem here is key theft, if your keys are stolen the thief can just drive it away and you cannot stop the engine. With our Vodafone (and other) if they steal keys bu do not have the driver token it will alert the tracking company who can then liaise with the police to track the van and on their authority stop the engine remotely. I am guessing they have to get police authority so as not to cause damage to the van or an accident if the van is moving?

 

[MichaelT]

Confused.. Ours isn't an A class but when I rang NFU to insure our MH they didn't really want to do it, but added it onto my traders policy as a stopgap after some persuasion only with no contents cover. They told me its not really their thing and I'd be much better ringing round and getting proper motorhome cover from somewhere else.

They seem to vary a lot from branch to branch then

Yes I have twice tried to insure a van with them, on our first coachbuilt they quoted something like £800, then when we got the a class this year was told unless we had another policy with them they could not insure it. Such a strange business model and not very customer friendly IMHO.

 

[Abacist]

Problem here is key theft, if your keys are stolen the thief can just drive it away and you cannot stop the engine. With our Vodafone (and other) if they steal keys bu do not have the driver token it will alert the tracking company who can then liaise with the police to track the van and on their authority stop the engine remotely. I am guessing they have to get police authority so as not to cause damage to the van or an accident if the van is moving?

Not with mine! I have the additional VanBitz Metatrak engine immobiliser which I always use when not actually with the van. I get an immediate phone text if the alarm goes off. I can check the GPS to be sure the van has not moved. Someone can break in if they can stand the noise and can’t be seen by those around our van. That’s a risk I have to take but I have minimised the risks as best I can.

 

[MichaelT]

Not with mine! I have the additional VanBitz Metatrak engine immobiliser which I always use when not actually with the van. I get an immediate phone text if the alarm goes off. I can check the GPS to be sure the van has not moved. Someone can break in if they can stand the noise and can’t be seen by those around our van. That’s a risk I have to take but I have minimised the risks as best I can.

I dont know how the alarm etc. works but assuming the thief steals your keys that has the alarm fob on it would by pass the system and the alarm will not activate??? Then they can just start the engine and drive off? With the Vodafone 5S you also need the driver ID card so even if this does happen the tracker would know it is being stolen and activate.

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