Help with CBE PC210 please

[Steve Kirby]

I am in the process of converting my Citroen Relay into a campervan. I have got to tackle the electrics next and rather then bodge something together i have ordered the CBE PC210 control panel kit. I have looked through the instruction books today and am a little confused to how it all wires together and how exactly all the various components connect up to it. The books seem to assume you already know a lot of what goes where. Does anyone have experience installing this kit and if so can they assist with any info / wiring diagram etc?
Thanks

 

[Pausim]

Sorry I can’t help you much. I have seen the DS300 part all wired up and the ad for the kit says it comes with the wiring harnesses. I imagine that most of the plugs can only go in single positions. The connections to the engine battery and leisure battery are on the DS300 box and will probably need wiring specific to your vehicle. If it were me I would probably lay all the components out on the floor and do a trial construction to get some idea of what needs to go where.

Welcome to the site, I hope you find some useful information on here.

 

[autorouter]

Apart from anything else, the instruction manual translations are not very good, with some words in the wrong language. Some are easy to guess (relais = relay) but some less so (masse = earth/chassis). Are you using a 3-way fridge, and is it manual selection or Automatic Energy Selection (AES)? Or maybe a compressor fridge? Are you clear about what the D+ is, and what the simulated D+ is used for? Or any other questions about the instructions?

 

[Steve Kirby]

Apart from anything else, the instruction manual translations are not very good, with some words in the wrong language. Some are easy to guess (relais = relay) but some less so (masse = earth/chassis). Are you using a 3-way fridge, and is it manual selection or Automatic Energy Selection (AES)? Or maybe a compressor fridge? Are you clear about what the D+ is, and what the simulated D+ is used for? Or any other questions about the instructions?

To be honest im not that sure on much of it. Its a manual selection 3 way fridge. It has the selection knob on the front ( 12v, mains or gas). Im not sure on the D+, simulated or otherwise. If i had to guess i would probably say its a live 12v wire when the ignition is on, but am probably completely wrong ! Im also not 100% sure on wiring up the 240v RCD box. I assume that just powers the 240v equipment directly (sockets, fridge, light etc) using the included junction box and doesnt connect in any way to the 12v distribution box?
I would really appreciate if you or someone could upload a diagram of the components with a clearer description of what goes where.
Many thanks

 

[autorouter]

I haven't got a diagram of the PC210/DS300, but maybe others can get hold of one. The basic motorhome electrics has a 12V distribution box that connects to the leisure battery, and has fuses for all the 12V circuits: lights, pump, heater control board, fridge control board etc. The idea is that you can park in the middle of a field with no hookup, and still have a working fridge, gas heating, hot water and a shower if you want, all powered by 12V and gas. The only contribution the hookup makes is to power a battery charger, and any mains sockets.

The other thing is power for charging and fridge from the alternator while driving. This is important, and you need to know the difference between ignition and D+. When you turn the key, the dash lights come on - that's the ignition. When you start the engine, the alternator light goes off - that's the D+. There are several relays that turn on, triggered by the D+. The split charge relay connects the leisure battery to the starter battery, so that the alternator can charge both while the engine is running. The fridge relay turns on the 12V fridge element while the engine is running. Another relay cuts power to the awning light while the engine is running, to make sure it never comes on while driving.

The D+ is a very weak signal, intended only to switch off the alternator light on the dashboard. If you attach lots of relays to it, there is a possibility of overloading it. To avoid that, usually it switches one single relay, which then can send power to any number of other relays. The output of the single relay is called a simulated D+.

There is a relay like this built into the DS300 box, so a genuine D+ from the alternator goes in, but a simulated D+ comes out. It will trigger the inbuilt split charge relay, fridge relay and awning light relay, and maybe some others too.

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[Steve Kirby]

I haven't got a diagram of the PC210/DS300, but maybe others can get hold of one. The basic motorhome electrics has a 12V distribution box that connects to the leisure battery, and has fuses for all the 12V circuits: lights, pump, heater control board, fridge control board etc. The idea is that you can park in the middle of a field with no hookup, and still have a working fridge, gas heating, hot water and a shower if you want, all powered by 12V and gas. The only contribution the hookup makes is to power a battery charger, and any mains sockets.

The other thing is power for charging and fridge from the alternator while driving. This is important, and you need to know the difference between ignition and D+. When you turn the key, the dash lights come on - that's the ignition. When you start the engine, the alternator light goes off - that's the D+. There are several relays that turn on, triggered by the D+. The split charge relay connects the leisure battery to the starter battery, so that the alternator can charge both while the engine is running. The fridge relay turns on the 12V fridge element while the engine is running. Another relay cuts power to the awning light while the engine is running, to make sure it never comes on while driving.

The D+ is a very weak signal, intended only to switch off the alternator light on the dashboard. If you attach lots of relays to it, there is a possibility of overloading it. To avoid that, usually it switches one single relay, which then can send power to any number of other relays. The output of the single relay is called a simulated D+.

There is a relay like this built into the DS300 box, so a genuine D+ from the alternator goes in, but a simulated D+ comes out. It will trigger the inbuilt split charge relay, fridge relay and awning light relay, and maybe some others too.

So am i right in assuming that the D+ wire is only live when the engine is running, opposed to a normal 12v ignition wire, like the one for switching on the radio etc, which is live when the ignition is on AND when the engine is running ?
If that is right, where is the most likely place to possibly tap into the D+ output, apart from at the alternator?
Many thanks for your continued patience and help

 

[AdrianChen]

Not sure if this helps

 

[autorouter]

If that is right, where is the most likely place to possibly tap into the D+ output, apart from at the alternator?

First possibility is a converter's socket, which has a few useful connections including the D+. Shown here for example:

Converter's socket - MisterG

The Peugeot Boxer, Citroen Relay and Fiat Ducato can be equipped with an option for a “Conversion Interface” or Converter’s socket. Fiat: “Electrical Interface Supply Socket (For Conversions)” option 081 Peugeot: “Electrical connections interface box / Includes reinforced alternator” option JI01...

misterg.org.uk

 

[Steve Kirby]

Thanks for the help everyone. I am getting it connected slowly but am still confused about the d+ connection. . Looking at the DS300 manual it looks like i can just use a +12v ignition wire if i connect it using 'Option A'. Can anyone confirm if this is correct please? Also still not 100% sure how to connect my 3way fridge, its not AES, just has a 3way selector on the front?

 

[Pausim]

Thanks for the help everyone. I am getting it connected slowly but am still confused about the d+ connection. . Looking at the DS300 manual it looks like i can just use a +12v ignition wire if i connect it using 'Option A'. Can anyone confirm if this is correct please? Also still not 100% sure how to connect my 3way fridge, its not AES, just has a 3way selector on the front?

I prefer D+ to ignition activation. D+ makes the circuits live only when the engine is actually running. An ignition feed goes live as soon as you turn the key which means that additional loads can fall on the battery before it has done its main job of starting the engine.

If the fridge is not AES then the DS300 seems to need a jumper wire at 11) which will exclude the AES function so that the fridge is permanently connected to B2, which is the leisure battery.

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[Steve Kirby]

Thanks. Im going to have a go at wiring the fridge today. Can anyone confirm the following- The 12v+ wire goes to pin 2 or 3 of block 17, the 12v- wire goes to anywhere in block 19 (masse or earth). And finally, because its a 3way manual switching fridge, i have to bridge the connections at number 11 ?
Thanks again everyone.

 

[autorouter]

Thanks for the help everyone. I am getting it connected slowly but am still confused about the d+ connection. . Looking at the DS300 manual it looks like i can just use a +12v ignition wire if i connect it using 'Option A'. Can anyone confirm if this is correct please? Also still not 100% sure how to connect my 3way fridge, its not AES, just has a 3way selector on the front?

Yep, I'm confused as well. Looking at the DS300 'D+' in detail, it's not what I thought. There is a voltage level detector that switches on a relay when the starter battery is over 13.5V, and switches it off when it drops to 12.5V. In other words, it's a voltage sensitive relay. The 'Simulated D+' output is this voltage-switched supply.

In simple systems it works well, because the voltage is only ever over 13.5V when the alternator is charging. In more complex systems it causes problems. If you decide to charge your starter battery from solar, for example. I prefer a genuine D+ 'engine running' signal to a guess based on the battery voltage.

My copy of the DS300 manual (may be an old one) doesn't have anything on 'Option A', what does it say about it? Sometimes manual writers get a bit careless when talking about D+ and ignition, and mix them up.

The usual way to wire a fridge is to take a wire from the starter battery, with a fuse, maybe 20A, near the starter battery. Feed that to a relay triggered by the D+. Then to the fridge, where the selector switch can turn it on or off. The idea is that it's easy to forget to turn off the fridge when you stop driving. You can easily end up with a flat starter battery after stopping overnight. So a relay automates the switchoff and saves the battery. Ideally it's triggered from the D+, but ignition works fine too if the D+ is a problem.