Help required with BCA unit and disabling split charge function on Bailey motorhome

[wuzzlewood]

I am seeking some help from more experienced funsters.

I am no electrician and I am not looking for comments like “on my German van we would not have that issue” etc

I have the old smart alternator issues and my van predates Bailey fitting the “solution” so I am on my own so to speak. I bought a Sterling 1230 BBS and paid to have an auto electrician fit it. He was NOT a motorhome expert and never claimed to be. He simply followed to Sterling instructions to the letter!

I have a functioning B2B charger but I cannot disable the standard split charge “relay” or even find it!

I have asked BCA for help but I am not holding my breath for a response!

Has anyone done it on Bailey van?

Bailey Autograph 3 794i build date October 2021!

Bailey fixed the issue from early 2022 but refuse to admit that the issue pre dates this so don’t suggest go to Bailey, I have tried!

Thanks anyway.

Steve

 

[Itsmcb]

This tread running today talks about.

‘Bailey’ PS306-6A-BC & Victron Bluesmart Charger

I’ve taken the plunge and removed a fair bit of trim in the new to us MH. I have a PS306-6A-BC charger fitted. Seems to have dual outputs, one for charging (lead acid) battery and the other is a transformer running 12V appliances whilst on EHU. A third thin white cable provides mains sense...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[Pausim]

This tread running today talks about.

‘Bailey’ PS306-6A-BC & Victron Bluesmart Charger

I’ve taken the plunge and removed a fair bit of trim in the new to us MH. I have a PS306-6A-BC charger fitted. Seems to have dual outputs, one for charging (lead acid) battery and the other is a transformer running 12V appliances whilst on EHU. A third thin white cable provides mains sense...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

Yes at #2 The Artilleryman says his split charge relay is hidden in the drivers door pillar. Looks like there should be some useful stuff in that thread. Nothing is going to work properly with a split charge relay creating a loop. Also you need to check that your electrician has wired up the B2B using D+ activation not voltage sensing.

 

[wuzzlewood]

Thank you, the electrician has taken another 12v feed from the ignition. The Sterling unit has a setting to control via this 12v feed. All that side is working it is just the split charge I need to solve!

I missed all this tread as I have been in Germany for two months!

Too busy relaxing to keep reading threads on here!

 

[The Artilleryman]

Yes at #2 The Artilleryman says his split charge relay is hidden in the drivers door pillar. Looks like there should be some useful stuff in that thread. Nothing is going to work properly with a split charge relay creating a loop. Also you need to check that your electrician has wired up the B2B using D+ activation not voltage sensing.

I inadvertantly posted incorrect information.

On a Bailey Autograph to isolate split charge relay :- Remove midi fuse that is in the lead that comes from the converters socket (B pilar), this will either be Green & White/brown cables or Red & black, this will stop any charge from the alternator reaching the hab electrics.

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[Pausim]

Thank you, the electrician has taken another 12v feed from the ignition. The Sterling unit has a setting to control via this 12v feed. All that side is working it is just the split charge I need to solve!

I was just concerned that the electrician might have used the Sterling default wiring which uses voltage sensing which will not work with a smart alternator. I prefer D+ to ignition operation because the ignition activates the B2B and puts a load on the battery before the engine has started. Probably ok if you start the engine immediately.

 

[wuzzlewood]

I was just concerned that the electrician might have used the Sterling default wiring which uses voltage sensing which will not work with a smart alternator. I prefer D+ to ignition operation because the ignition activates the B2B and puts a load on the battery before the engine has started. Probably ok if you start the engine immediately.

No following a chat with Ben at Sterling we changed it to use 12v ignition feed. We had the reset a default in the Sterling setup but now it only works when ignition running.
All the Sterling side is sorted I just need to kill the crappy Bailey bit!

I have read your thread and the comments from Artillleryman above and will investigate further on Monday!

Thanks again!

 

[wuzzlewood]

I inadvertantly posted incorrect information.

On a Bailey Autograph to isolate split charge relay :- Remove midi fuse that is in the lead that comes from the converters socket (B pilar), this will either be Green & White/brown cables or Red & black, this will stop any charge from the alternator reaching the hab electrics.

Thank you. I have read your original post with interest!

Now to trace the spaghetti wiring back to the B pillar on Monday!

Thank you again!

 

[SomeoneElse]

I have a 2013 Bailey Approach 625. A two berth rear lounge motorhome. All the relays are in the BCA electrical unit at the rear under the lounge seat next to the cooker. I have found the D+ signal to it as well as the connections from the engine battery. To fit a Votronic triple, B2B, Mains and solar chargers, I have disconnected bailey's main charger and used the power lead for the Votronic, disconnected the wire from the engine battery, and tapped off a D+ signal to also go the Votronic unit. I then connected 25mm2 cables between Votronic unit and both of the batteries. (engine and leisure). The down side of this is that that th BCA connects the three way fridge to the leisure battery when the D+ is present but the B2B easily makes up for this drain.

 

[The Artilleryman]

Thank you. I have read your original post with interest!

Now to trace the spaghetti wiring back to the B pillar on Monday!

Thank you again!

All you need to do is sort out the wiring by the PDU. On our 2017 (M/Y) 68-2 there are 2 pairs of heavy cables, 1 goes between the hab battery and the PDU, the other is the feed from the alternator (Green & White/Brown on ours, but have also seen Red & Black). Both pairs also have a blade fuse connection, this is for the solar controller feed to the hab & cab batteries.
Do you know where the PDU (fuse box) is and the location of the battery box ?

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[wuzzlewood]

All you need to do is sort out the wiring by the PDU. On our 2017 (M/Y) 68-2 there are 2 pairs of heavy cables, 1 goes between the hab battery and the PDU, the other is the feed from the alternator (Green & White/Brown on ours, but have also seen Red & Black). Both pairs also have a blade fuse connection, this is for the solar controller feed to the hab & cab batteries.
Do you know where the PDU (fuse box) is and the location of the battery box ?

Yes, my PDU is behind the drivers seat in an under seat unit, the battery box is under the floor in the centre of the seating area so only a few feet a the crow goes but 100m in Bailey spaghetti wire!!.

Thank you for all your help!

I find the usual funsters replies tend to be off the point and generally anti Bailey and pro German!

 

[Pausim]

I find the usual funsters replies tend to be off the point and generally anti Bailey and pro German!

That sounds like an invitation! I haven’t noticed any in this thread so far. As it happens the issue with disabling split charge relays is just the same for German motorhomes.

 

[wuzzlewood]

All you need to do is sort out the wiring by the PDU. On our 2017 (M/Y) 68-2 there are 2 pairs of heavy cables, 1 goes between the hab battery and the PDU, the other is the feed from the alternator (Green & White/Brown on ours, but have also seen Red & Black). Both pairs also have a blade fuse connection, this is for the solar controller feed to the hab & cab batteries.
Do you know where the PDU (fuse box) is and the location of the battery box ?

I have now traced a thick red and black white cable via large plug changes to white and green!
The green is split into two fuses!
A 15 amp blade fuse and a 30 amp midi fuse!

Am I correct in thinking it is the 30 amp midi fuse I need to pull out?

Will this allow the fridge to work, I assume the fridge used the 15 amp side?

Thanks for your help!

 

[The Artilleryman]

On my 68-2 autograph 2 the blade fuse is the feed from the (Truma dual output) to the starter battery.

I've no idea where the battery feed to the fridge is, but with both those fuses the fridge works as it should ie in switch in battery position and engine running - checked with a clamp meter - it may come direct from the converters socket.

 

[wuzzlewood]

On my 68-2 autograph 2 the blade fuse is the feed from the (Truma dual output) to the starter battery.

I've no idea where the battery feed to the fridge is, but with both those fuses the fridge works as it should ie in switch in battery position and engine running - checked with a clamp meter - it may come direct from the converters socket.

Unfortunately I don’t have a clamp meter!

Van going into workshop in next week or so to have a recall done on fridge flu I will get the workshop to check!

My Truma controller is now disconnected but does not have a green wire on it!

Thanks again for your help!

Steve

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[PaulC70]

Unfortunately I don’t have a clamp meter!

Van going into workshop in next week or so to have a recall done on fridge flu I will get the workshop to check!

My Truma controller is now disconnected but does not have a green wire on it!

Thanks again for your help!

Steve

How did you ever get on with this Steve?

 

[wuzzlewood]

How did you ever get on with this Steve?

I did manage to trace the wires and found two blade fuses. I pulled them out and everything worked on the fridge and the split charge stopped!
A result, I never did get hold of a clamp meter!
I now have lithium battery working . Next step is to fit the Apuljack version of the BCA charger with lithium profile, followed by an additional lithium battery, then an inverter.

All coming together well but in affordable chunks!

 

[Lenny HB]

Next step is to fit the Apuljack version of the BCA charger with lithium profile,

They only change the charge voltage, for not much more money you can buy a proper Lithium charger.

 

[Two on Tour]

They only change the charge voltage, for not much more money you can buy a proper Lithium charger.

In fact cheaper, the 20A Victron IP22 mains charge is £156 delivered, whereas the Apuljack lithium version of the PS276 is £192.14 delivered and the PS301/306 version is £215.14 delivered.

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[BobJayne]

Even cheaper at off grid power solutions with your mhf discount code.

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[LithiumConvert]

I was just concerned that the electrician might have used the Sterling default wiring which uses voltage sensing which will not work with a smart alternator.

Depends on the smart alternator voltages.

If the alternator output on engine overun is high enough to kick the Sterling into life then it will work fine. I do not know the voltages on a Bailey, but on my 2022 Hymer Exsis, it is all good.

The Sterling has a programmable timer which can keep it running fairly continually.

 

[Pausim]

Depends on the smart alternator voltages.

If the alternator output on engine overun is high enough to kick the Sterling into life then it will work fine. I do not know the voltages on a Bailey, but on my 2022 Hymer Exsis, it is all good.

The Sterling has a programmable timer which can keep it running fairly continually.

I would have thought there would be a danger of the timer running after the engine has stopped and draining power from the engine battery.

 

[LithiumConvert]

I would have thought there would be a danger of the timer running after the engine has stopped and draining power from the engine battery.

Yes, that is true. The timer is mostly still running for a little while. But the starter battery has a good charge at that time.

Also, the timer starts when engine overun is detected on the approach to the parking space, so often there is a good chance the timer has not got long to run by the time the engine is switched off.

 

[andysam]

I myself have had this same scenario in my 2021 Elddis Accordo 120. I installed 2 x 100ah LiFePO4 and an Apuljack PSU - which worked as expected. In hindsight I shouldn't have bothered as we are never on mains away from home! In my case the original B pillar feed goes to a Schaudt B2B which instead of going straight to the batteries went to the PDU to a split charge relay which topped out at 14.41v maxing out @ 6a and would never go higher...no good for Li. Why Elddis did this I'll never know. They simply refused (declined) to answer any questions I put to them about the PDU and BCA also declined saying that they had an agreement with Elddis not to discuss with end users.

Now the 120's PDU is inside a wardrobe which needs to be dismantled to remove the PDU's cover. After doing it to replace the PSU I couldn't face doing that it again, but in theory you could simply unplug the feed from the PDU and feed it directly to the batts. I know this as there is separate power to the fridge as I disconnected the Schaudt and the fridge still worked on 12v. The Schaudt puts out 20-25a according to it's manual, however fed up with the nonsense, I installed a Victron 30a B2B in parallel, which gives me a total of 36a input which I monitor via a Victron shunt which I installed midway to monitor the battery "bank". The optimum charge for the batts is 40a, so I'm happy with 36a. Having said all of that it is a workaround solution to a problem that didn't need to exist and Elddis weren't the slightest bit interested. Worthy of note that if I had have gotten the Schaudt working correctly I was still going to install a 15a Victron B2B which would have given me a total of 35-40a input that that I wished for.

Hopefully that makes sense!

 

[Pausim]

Hopefully that makes sense!

Yes that makes sense and is a good solution. What doesn’t make sense is the attitude of Elddis and BCA, it makes me suspicious. Declining to answer and gagging the supplier is ridiculous and shows just how customer focused they are. My guess is that 6A is all that is left for the battery after powering the fridge and a few other functions.

You will get a sensible response about the Schaudt unit by emailing Udo.Lang@schaudt.gmbh (in English) but he may not know what Elddis are doing.

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[Two on Tour]

BCA also declined saying that they had an agreement with Elddis not to discuss with end users.

I'm surprised at that as I had two telephone conversations with BCA technical staff when I was having a problem with the D+ feed to my PDU and they then emailed me over the schematic diagram for the the PDU that I had requested. Maybe it depends on who you get answering the phone at BCA.

 

[mikr889]

I myself have had this same scenario in my 2021 Elddis Accordo 120. I installed 2 x 100ah LiFePO4 and an Apuljack PSU - which worked as expected. In hindsight I shouldn't have bothered as we are never on mains away from home! In my case the original B pillar feed goes to a Schaudt B2B which instead of going straight to the batteries went to the PDU to a split charge relay which topped out at 14.41v maxing out @ 6a and would never go higher...no good for Li. Why Elddis did this I'll never know. They simply refused (declined) to answer any questions I put to them about the PDU and BCA also declined saying that they had an agreement with Elddis not to discuss with end users.

Now the 120's PDU is inside a wardrobe which needs to be dismantled to remove the PDU's cover. After doing it to replace the PSU I couldn't face doing that it again, but in theory you could simply unplug the feed from the PDU and feed it directly to the batts. I know this as there is separate power to the fridge as I disconnected the Schaudt and the fridge still worked on 12v. The Schaudt puts out 20-25a according to it's manual, however fed up with the nonsense, I installed a Victron 30a B2B in parallel, which gives me a total of 36a input which I monitor via a Victron shunt which I installed midway to monitor the battery "bank". The optimum charge for the batts is 40a, so I'm happy with 36a. Having said all of that it is a workaround solution to a problem that didn't need to exist and Elddis weren't the slightest bit interested. Worthy of note that if I had have gotten the Schaudt working correctly I was still going to install a 15a Victron B2B which would have given me a total of 35-40a input that that I wished for.

Hopefully that makes sense!

I appear to have had a similar experience talking to Elddis and BCA today. Still have no idea what amperage the PDU or the Schaudt actually send to the battery. Based on the fact there is a 15 amp in line fuse I suspect not a lot.

 

[andysam]

I appear to have had a similar experience talking to Elddis and BCA today. Still have no idea what amperage the PDU or the Schaudt actually send to the battery. Based on the fact there is a 15 amp in line fuse I suspect not a lot.

Mine knocks out about 6A...utterly pointless to hobble it like that. I think it's laziness, sticking with what they know instead of innovating. It would actually save them time (money) to cable the Schaudt directly to the battery rather than the PDU! Them and BCA act like some sort of cartel/monopoly. It still triggers me now.