gross weight

[Chris63]

Good afternoon Funsters,
This is a continuation of trying to find correct tyre pressures. I was alarmed by your messages regarding the weight of my van and its' safety particularly the weight on the back axle. I contacted Autotrail to nail it and received this reply. Could one you Funsters unscramble this please. I hope I don't have to travel in my my undies to save weight!!!
Best wishes
Totthedog

 

[dunnah01]

You can weigh up to 4005kgs but there's no mention of permitted axle weights which you need to stay within. Ignore MIRO it's not used for very much. Unladen weight would have been more useful to let you know what speed you can travel at.

 

[Phill D]

You need to find the chassis plate that shows 4005kgs

That is the only way of knowing what exactly the max weights are per axle. Although that still fixes your overall weight at 4005

 

[Lenny HB]

Apart from the MAM (Gross weight) the rest of the info is pretty useless he has told you what is included in the MIRO but not told you what the MIRO is.

 

[funflair]

Apart from the MAM (Gross weight) the rest of the info is pretty useless he has told you what is included in the MIRO but not told you what the MIRO is.

There is another thread started by Chris63 and he mentions a trip to the weighbridge, quite possibly in going away trim but not sure how many people in but weighing in at 4060kg so a bit of spring cleaning and decluttering may be required.

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[Lenny HB]

There is another thread started by Chris63 and he mentions a trip to the weighbridge, quite possibly in going away trim but not sure how many people in but weighing in at 4060kg so a bit of spring cleaning and decluttering may be required.

Think I've seen that one even replied on it.

 

[suavecarve]

You need to find the chassis plate that shows 4005kgs

That is the only way of knowing what exactly the max weights are per axle. Although that still fixes your overall weight at 4005

As per the above post, pop out to your engine or to one of your front doors and you will find a plate, possibly with another stick on plate near to it or next to it.

Take photos of those and put them up on here and you will than have them translated into what axles etc can take weight wise

Chris63

It will give you a lot more information than what they gave you

 

[tonka]

You can also ignore the MIRO off Autotrail. I bought a new Apache 700 in 2012, the MIRO included 100ltr of fresh water. Later models of the same van had a MIRO that only stated 20lts ! There is no standard they can make the figure to suit themselves.
Your gross / MAM, front and rear axles are all on the weight plate.

 

[Pausim]

From the other thread we believe that that he has a MAM of 4005kg, a rear axle weight limit of 2400kg and a front axle weight limit of 2100kg. We also have his weigh bridge weights of rear 2400kg and front of 1660kg. This leaves him 55kg over MAM and bang on the rear axle weight with nothing to spare.

 

[DDJC]

MIRO is a sales tool to sell motorhomes. It is there to try and convince you that you, your passengers, your kit and any adaptations you make, will be below the plated weight, and therefore legal. It is mostly nonsense and best forgotten about. It is no defence whatsoever when a traffic guy or police check says "Sorry sir, but you are 80 kilos over."

However, because most motorhomes can be up-plated by the extremely technical operation of 'getting your wallet out', it is a safe bet that you will be safe, even if overweight. Fairly sure that when I leave the Hypermarket just before I cross the channel, I am over by about thirty kilos of the good stuff. I lose absolutely no sleep about it, but there are some on here who will rightly tell you that you could have insurance issues.

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[Chris63]

Thanks Funsters
I don’t carry any junk in the back , maybe distribute to the front if possible
I never travel with a full water tank either
I’ve contacted Autotrail again
I’ll let you know what they say
Totthedog

 

[Pausim]

Thanks Funsters
I don’t carry any junk in the back , maybe distribute to the front if possible
I never travel with a full water tank either
I’ve contacted Autotrail again
I’ll let you know what they say
Totthedog

Not sure you will get much more information from Autotrail. You know your GVW (gross vehicle weight) which Autotrail have confirmed. You also know the front and rear axle weight limits. Your actual weights from the weigh bridge show that you are overloading the GVW. You either need to reduce what you carry or look into uprating. Moving stuff to the front may give you a little more capacity on the rear axle but you still have to get the total down below your GVW of 4005kg.

 

[Phill D]

the only valuable thing Autotrail can tell you is what is the location of the vehicle weight plate.

 

[Tigger-Tim]

I’ve contacted Autotrail again
I’ll let you know what they say

To ask them what? You seem to have the information.

 

[Soycd]

As Lenny said earlier, if you don't know the MIRO you can't calculate how much stuff you can put in. It's also worth noting that not all companies use the same criteria for MIRO. The info they have given you as a bit vague. The driver weight is correct, as well as the diesel amount. The water and gas are not defined in your case. I'd be asking how much gas/water does the MIRO include and what is the MIRO. You could do your own version of MIRO, as get it weighed with 90% diesel, 20% water and a full gas bottle. At least that way you would know the 'true' MIRO.

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[Pausim]

As Lenny said earlier, if you don't know the MIRO you can't calculate how much stuff you can put in. It's also worth noting that not all companies use the same criteria for MIRO. The info they have given you as a bit vague. The driver weight is correct, as well as the diesel amount. The water and gas are not defined in your case. I'd be asking how much gas/water does the MIRO include and what is the MIRO. You could do your own version of MIRO, as get it weighed with 90% diesel, 20% water and a full gas bottle. At least that way you would know the 'true' MIRO.

Published MIRO and payload figures are nothing more than indicative figures and can not be relied on (more fiction than fact). For a start manufacturers are allowed a 5% tolerance on their advertised weights. A vehicle with an advertised unladen weight of 3000kg will often weigh an extra 150kg making the MIRO 150kg heavier and the payload 150kg less than the figures thrown around by the manufacturer. Then all the factory fitted, dealer and customer extras also have to come out of the payload.

The DVSA and Police are not going to care what figures the manufacturer has published. They will weigh the vehicle and if it exceeds the plated weights you are in trouble. At best they will not allow you to drive on until you have reduced the weight to the legal limits shown on the plate. Anything more than 5% over is likely to lead to a fine.

The OP has done the sensible thing and visited a weigh bridge. He already knows that his actual weight is 4060kg and exceeds the GVW of 4005kg, which means he is breaking the law. There is nothing Autotrail can tell him that will change this.

 

[Tigger-Tim]

I completely agree, Pausim. Plus, the vehicle may have been fitted with extras over its life, so making the MIRO even less relevant.

The only figures that matter are those from the weighbridge vs the maximum allowed.

 

[Lenny HB]

Agree MIRO is irrelevant only a rough guide when buying a vehicle.

 

[Tude]

Good afternoon Funsters,
This is a continuation of trying to find correct tyre pressures. I was alarmed by your messages regarding the weight of my van and its' safety particularly the weight on the back axle. I contacted Autotrail to nail it and received this reply. Could one you Funsters unscramble this please. I hope I don't have to travel in my my undies to save weight!!!
Best wishes
TotthedogView attachment 783764View attachment 783764

I would think every van would have no weight problems sticking to this formula. You have clothes food etc etc chairs tables beer wine 2 nd person what a crap answer he gave you. I have a Delaware just weighing it I’ve 100kgs left with everything in and passenger.most vans are tight on payload

 

[Headrush]

We uprated our suspension to up-plate to 3850 kg because I knew we were running overweight with a gross of 3500 kg.
We recently went on a weighbridge fully loaded for the trip, gas bottles, full of water and food drinks etc. We were still 3880 kg!
So we were probably at least 300kg over before the upgrade. At least now I can get it legal by letting some water out.

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[Soycd]

Published MIRO and payload figures are nothing more than indicative figures and can not be relied on (more fiction than fact). For a start manufacturers are allowed a 5% tolerance on their advertised weights. A vehicle with an advertised unladen weight of 3000kg will often weigh an extra 150kg making the MIRO 150kg heavier and the payload 150kg less than the figures thrown around by the manufacturer. Then all the factory fitted, dealer and customer extras also have to come out of the payload.

The DVSA and Police are not going to care what figures the manufacturer has published. They will weigh the vehicle and if it exceeds the plated weights you are in trouble. At best they will not allow you to drive on until you have reduced the weight to the legal limits shown on the plate. Anything more than 5% over is likely to lead to a fine.

The OP has done the sensible thing and visited a weigh bridge. He already knows that his actual weight is 4060kg and exceeds the GVW of 4005kg, which means he is breaking the law. There is nothing Autotrail can tell him that will change this.

As I said, best to your own version of MIRO, strip out everything and weigh the vehicle. Mine came out below the manufacturers (Challenger) MIRO at 2920 and also has an awning fitted. I've not come across many manufacturers that quote an MIRO that is more than the actual weight. My wife is currently filling the van with cloths so will interesting to see what the result is when we go the weighbridge later today on the way to the tunnel.

 

[TonyEmm]

You can weigh up to 4005kgs but there's no mention of permitted axle weights which you need to stay within. Ignore MIRO it's not used for very much. Unladen weight would have been more useful to let you know what speed you can travel at.

Except that neither Dvla or Dvsa have a database of motorhome/camper unladen weights, so they don’t know your speed limit anyway!

 

[Soycd]

As I said, best to your own version of MIRO, strip out everything and weigh the vehicle. Mine came out below the manufacturers (Challenger) MIRO at 2920 and also has an awning fitted. I've not come across many manufacturers that quote an MIRO that is more than the actual weight. My wife is currently filling the van with cloths so will interesting to see what the result is when we go the weighbridge later today on the way to the tunnel.

Weighed in at exactly 3200 that’s with full tank of diesel, half water, full gas bottle and 2 bikes, I though it would be more

 

[corconx]

Chris63 one thing I’ve not read on either of these two threads (why the second?) Is what EXTRAS have been fitted to your vehicle over and above the original spec?

People forget, especially new buyers of second hand vehicles that they all weigh

Solar Panel
TV
Satellite or/and aerial
GPS
Dashcam
Extra battery (often only supplied with one leisure)
Battery Monitor
Inverter
SOG

Plus more others will think of. Too late for my brain

Have you any of these - especially on roof at rear?

Carol

 

[DDJC]

Chris63 one thing I’ve not read on either of these two threads (why the second?) Is what EXTRAS have been fitted to your vehicle over and above the original spec?

People forget, especially new buyers of second hand vehicles that they all weigh

Solar Panel
TV
Satellite or/and aerial
GPS
Dashcam
Extra battery (often only supplied with one leisure)
Battery Monitor
Inverter
SOG

Plus more others will think of. Too late for my brain

Have you any of these - especially on roof at rear?

Carol

To that list you can add spare wheel, memory foam mattresses (double the weight), automatic gear box, bike rack, Aircon, oven, electric beds, etc

There is only one way to be sure and that is to get your bus on a weighbridge. If you are buying, get a certified weight statement before you buy. MIRO is just pointless, a salesman's tool to convince you to buy. They don't care whether the bus you want is right for you.

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[Pausim]

To that list you can add spare wheel, memory foam mattresses (double the weight), automatic gear box, bike rack, Aircon, oven, electric beds, etc

There is only one way to be sure and that is to get your bus on a weighbridge. If you are buying, get a certified weight statement before you buy. MIRO is just pointless, a salesman's tool to convince you to buy. They don't care whether the bus you want is right for you.

When my new motorhome arrived at the dealers premises I had them take it straight to a weigh bridge and provide me with the real weight. Predictably it was already 130kg heavier than the published figure. Carthago provide weights for all the factory fitted extras so there were no surprises there.

If people insist on referring to manufacturers MIRO and Payload figures they should start by adding 5% to the MIRO and deducting the same number of kg from the payload. Then they need to deduct the weight of all the extras.

Looking at Carthago’s latest publication as an example here are a few of the heavier weight options that might need to be allowed for:
Standard package (they don’t make it without these “extras”) 36kg
Media package 21kg
180hp engine 55kg
Awning 35kg +
Towbar 60kg
Extra battery 25kg
Solar panels 2x100W 20kg
Insulating mat for front windows 10kg.

All these extras have to be deducted from the payload. The list above adds up to 262kg which could be more than half the payload gone before the motorhome has left the factory. The answer brings us back full circle to get your motorhome weighed, it is the only figure that really matters when it comes to safety and legality.