Generator to supply multiplus II, 12v, 3000, 120.

[PeteMallorca]

Hi, I'm installing a multiplus II, 12v, 3000, 120. Some times I will be using a Champion 2200 duel fuel, to charge the 3 × 200Ah Lifepo4 batteries (in parallel).

The generator shows:
Starting Watts: 2500/2500 Propane.
Max Watts: 2200/2200 Propane.
Rated Watts: 1900/1710 Propane.
AC Load: 1 x 240v 13 Amp.
Frequency: 50Hz.

I have a Digital Multi Control, to select maximum load from AC. If I set that to 10A or 11A, what would the charge rate be, from the Multiplus?

 

[tacr2man]

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this might be of help the limiting factor will be gennie output load

 

[Raul]

The 10A will be to much, the multiplus will draw 2300w and will bog down the genny. Reduce your amps in to 6-7A and will be fine. At 7A will be 1610w about 120a at 13.4 ish. Thats you multiplus maxed out. Keep the multiplus at about 75-80% for better efficiency less heat and better life.
My choice will be to set the multiplus charging amps to 90A dc, or limit via GX control at 6A from genny.

 

[bigtwin]

Roughly speaking, maximum output from your charger is 120A; at 13V this is 1560W.

This is well within your generator capacity.

Edit: Raul, where does my calculation fall down? Inefficiencies?

Edit 2: Ahh, I see that you’ve assumed the vehicle (charger?) will demand 10A which at 230V would indeed be 2300W and would be too much for the generator. However, if it’s only the charger that's running this would draw 1560/230 = <7A (as you suggest). We are in agreement.

Ian

 

[PeteMallorca]

The 10A will be to much, the multiplus will draw 2300w and will bog down the genny. Reduce your amps in to 6-7A and will be fine. At 7A will be 1610w about 120a at 13.4 ish. Thats you multiplus maxed out. Keep the multiplus at about 75-80% for better efficiency less heat and better life.
My choice will be to set the multiplus charging amps to 90A dc, or limit via GX control at 6A from genny.

Thanks Raul. There is a preset on the Digital Multi Control, for a simple on - off switch, for generator use. I can preset that to 6A and then just switch it on, when on the generator.

I'll find the settings to reduce the charge rate also, if this will help the Multiplus in te long run.

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[Raul]

Roughly speaking, maximum output from your charger is 120A; at 13V this is 1560W.

This is well within your generator capacity.

Edit: Raul, where does my calculation fall down? Inefficiencies?

Edit 2: Ahh, I see that you’ve assumed the vehicle (charger?) will demand 10A which at 230V would indeed be 2300W and would be too much for the generator. However, if it’s only the charger that's running this would draw 1560/230 = <7A (as you suggest). We are in agreement.

Ian

You forget that the multiplus can pass power to the loads as well, even if it charges with 120A. From experience i know thet genny well as I got one. Maxed out is 7A limit, and 6A it will allow for any load surge that may have on pass trough, to allow power assist.
The genny bogs down on surge, before the multiplus has a chance to compensate. Hence my 6A recommendation.
Also there are inefficiencies, at 12v add 10-15% loss.

 

[Raul]

Is it the inverter generator you got? If so flick the switch on auto after starting and it stabilises, it will save fuel.

 

[PeteMallorca]

Is it the inverter generator you got? If so flick the switch on auto after starting and it stabilises, it will save fuel.

It's the 92001i-E-DF-EU. I've only ever used it with petrol and on Eco mode. It's only been used to help with charging, with a Blue Smart IP22 30A Charger. Plus the odd air fryer or instant pot use.

 

[Raul]

I have the slightly bigger brother 2300w peak, the square model that can be run in parallel, but, 1800w it’s max it can do sustained load. I usually run it asa a back up when we have grim weather. Not been used in the last 2 years as we got more solar and lithium for the house now.

 

[PeteMallorca]

I have the slightly bigger brother 2300w peak, the square model that can be run in parallel, but, 1800w it’s max it can do sustained load. I usually run it asa a back up when we have grim weather. Not been used in the last 2 years as we got more solar and lithium for the house now.

I'm hoping not to need it except during long spells without sun. But living in the van, I have to do everything in stages. If I can get the lithium connected to the Multiplus and at least get AC into the multiplus, I can keep the batteries topped up with the generator, until the new panels can be fitted. Bit by bit

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[bigtwin]

You forget that the multiplus can pass power to the loads as well, even if it charges with 120A.

I didnt. I agree that the scenario you describe would be more demanding but I was answering what I understood the question to be:

Some times I will be using a Champion 2200 duel fuel, to charge the 3 × 200Ah Lifepo4 batteries (in parallel).

Also there are inefficiencies, at 12v add 10-15% loss.

Which is why I said:

Roughly speaking,

Ian

 

[Bessy765]

At this moment I am running a Honda E10i on lpg, 2 x 100 amp Transporter lithium Batteries through a Victron Multiplus 12/2000/80 inverter charger. The incoming 240 volt is set a 2 amps. So just above idling speed,

 

[Bessy765]

For comparison two readings 1 hour apart. Our van is in our garage so no help from Solar. Just giving the genny a run before changing the oil etc.

 

[Raul]

How did you manage to limit the power in, at 2A AC? Minimum that inverter can go to 4.4-4.5amps. What firmware does it have?
Maybe it is limited on charging amps DC or thats all the batteries can absorb.

 

[bigtwin]

How did you manage to limit the power in, at 2A AC? Minimum that inverter can go to 4.4-4.5amps.

I wondered that too.

Ian

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[Bessy765]

The Victron is set to charger only. The multiplus gives you the option of charger only or inverter and charger together. The Honda E10i is not powerful enough to deliver enough amps to run when the inverter is on as you state it requires 4.5 amps. But it will run for around 8 hours set to supply 2 amps on a tank of fuel 2.5. Litres. I can run mine from my LPG tank as long as the petrol tank is empty, or petrol If using it elsewhere than with the van.

 

[Bessy765]

Obviously 2 amps at 240 volts which gives around 25 amp d.c.

 

[Raul]

The Victron is set to charger only. The multiplus gives you the option of charger only or inverter and charger together. The Honda E10i is not powerful enough to deliver enough amps to run when the inverter is on as you state it requires 4.5 amps. But it will run for around 8 hours set to supply 2 amps on a tank of fuel 2.5. Litres. I can run mine from my LPG tank as long as the petrol tank is empty, or petrol If using it elsewhere than with the van.

I have tried this with my multiplus, same model, and in charger only mode, it works. Thank you for bringing this up, I didn't know the charger can limit so low. .I have learned something new, and never seen this in victron documentation either.

If i try the same with invert on, it will revert to 4.5A, but with charger only mode, it does limit to 2A AC.

 

[Bessy765]

It also is handy to limit the charging rate for the more amps the genny puts in the louder it is, there is no such thing as a quiet genny, it’s also less strain on a small genny.

 

[bigtwin]

I have tried this with my multiplus, same model, and in charger only mode, it works. Thank you for bringing this up, I didn't know the charger can limit so low. .I have learned something new, and never seen this in victron documentation either.
View attachment 857748

If i try the same with invert on, it will revert to 4.5A, but with charger only mode, it does limit to 2A AC.

I have a MasterVolt so will have to check this out too.

Ian

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[Bessy765]

Or like mine if in the van just use the switch on the front of the box. We monitor ours remotely as we have to charge it up every so often as it uses power to monitor everything and is kept in our garage. Remember to leave the switch on if controlling it remotely else it wont come on. We use a sim from RWG lasts 2 years with 5GB per month.

 

[Raul]

You could also use a smart plug, i use few tapo P100 for the car when away, also for other gadgets that need intermittent power.

I have unlimited internet on the van, and I never use the inverter switch, only when set up the system. All the control is done via touch screen in the van, or phone on lan or vrm. Yes for remote operation the switch has to be in the ON position all the time.