Gearbox oil additives/friction modifiers

[ctc]

To be fair, that organisation's founding partnership was half Swiss , hence the name. After the outbreak of the Spanish Civil War they collectivised their factories which was the end of a proud engineering concern.

As usual, nationalisation buggers it up except for bureaucrats...

Tell that to Beaufighter pilots.

 

[IslandApe]

Tell that to Beaufighter pilots.

That cannon (assume you mean the 20mm) was actually developed in the early 30s before nationalisation.

I may be biased about nationalised industries as several relatives “worked” for British Leyland...

 

[jumar]

Interesting Topic, thanks for all who posted, giving me something to think about, I've got a reluctant 1st to 2nd with a cold engine on a Renault Master 3 litre......wonder if a wee drop of additive may help,,?

 

[Coolcats]

Synchro failures were at their worst when the norm was to use SAE 80+ gear oils. By comparison modern gear oils are like water. I have used Molyslip in every gearbox I've ever had including auto and o/d boxes and in PAS. It invariably results in an improvement in "feel" and a smoother unit.

Viscosity of water at 20c is 1.0016 so maybe its characteristics are unlike gearbox oil

 

[Coolcats]

Thanks both.
I am just using the logic that a cold more viscous oil at start up seems to be ok for the gearchange.
The thicker oil , i assume, changes the timing element of the change as in my description above.
If I change into 4th slowly and at modest revs(relatively) it's ok.

I know I am being pedantic but a liquid cannot be thick to thin it is measured by Viscosity at a given temperature, so you are right about observing its characteristics when cooler. But its not just oil that gets warm so do all the components....

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[Cheshirecat57]

Personally, I only use additives and friction modifiers that are specifically recommended by the manufacturer, in my case currently Peugeot.

 

[Jake Royd]

Interesting Topic, thanks for all who posted, giving me something to think about, I've got a reluctant 1st to 2nd with a cold engine on a Renault Master 3 litre......wonder if a wee drop of additive may help,,?

Could do. As I mentioned above there is a timing element to synchro function as the ring rotated through the slot. Rotates about 5°.
There is also a force or pressure component.
This is why, for me, a slight problem when hot may not be helped by lowering friction or using a less viscous oil.
I've decided on mine to change the oil, being careful about the quantity.
Might try a slightly higher viscosity synthetic but still a GL4.
A synchro is basically a form of wet clutch.

 

[EuroTrotters]

I could do with changing the gearbox oil on our 2000 fiat Ducato, not sure how ?

 

[Two on Tour]

Personally, I only use additives and friction modifiers that are specifically recommended by the manufacturer, in my case currently Peugeot.

I work on the basis that manufactures have a tie in to another manufactures products which is normally down to the discounts on price offered.
The oils and lubricants recommended by the vehicle manufacturer may be good and okay, but are they the best on offer, personally I doubt it and as such sometimes I look to other ways or products to improve on the OEM.

 

[jollyrodger]

I've used this for many years on various engines, g. box's right back to the mt75 Ford box with similar crunchy problems axle motorbike wet clutch
Not cheap but never had a problem
It does what it say on the can.

ACTIV8 Friction Reducer

www.activ8lubricants.com

And from the fiat Forum

Gearbox oil capacity | FIAT Punto (Mk2/2b)

Hi guys, 2 questions about gearbox oil. Just wana know if anyone knows what the gearbox oil capacity is on a mk2 8v? I have been told its 1.7 litres can anyone confirm as i know your not ment to overfill it. Also im unsure on how you fill it, in daves guide it says fill it on the side but i...

www.fiatforum.com

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[tonyidle]

Viscosity of water at 20c is 1.0016 so maybe its characteristics are unlike gearbox oil

And maybe I exaggerate a little.

 

[Coolcats]

And maybe I exaggerate a little.

me too

 

[ctc]

That cannon (assume you mean the 20mm) was actually developed in the early 30s before nationalisation.

I may be biased about nationalised industries as several relatives “worked” for British Leyland...

It was used by us in the 1940's, very reliable, well made and very unpopular among enemy pilots.

 

[Two on Tour]

I thought the Beaufighter's 4 x 20mm cannons were based on the Hispano-Suiza HS 404 which was then further developed by the British.

 

[IslandApe]

It was used by us in the 1940's, very reliable, well made and very unpopular among enemy pilots.

Agreed!

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[IslandApe]

Hispano-Suiza HS 404

I thought the Beaufighter's 4 x 20mm cannons were based on the Hispano-Suiza HS 404 which was then further developed by the British.

Again, Agreed! The gas operated auto cannon was developed before HS were nationalised. The UK made that gun under licence.

There's a load of interesting stuff about WW2 fighters and their armament. The US remained convinced that their .50 Brownings were the heaviest armed fighters but in terms of mass thrown per second and what that mass could achieve in terms of HE/Incendiary content, the HS 20mm was far superior. The 30mm cannon on the 262 being better still of course.

This is an interesting article on that:

WORLD WAR 2 FIGHTER GUN EFFECTIVENESS

 

[Jake Royd]

After 130k miles and a crunchy gearbox into 2nd and 3rd, I replaced transmission fluid with Red-Line.
Put in the required qty and gearchange is smooth now.

Well, an update, I read up the data on Red-Line which claimed it had the right characteristics for synchromesh and is not ‘too slippery’. Which checks with my gut feel that if the change is ok cold, then you need a more viscous product at high temperatures.
So I’ve ordered some from Opie oils.
Cost, about £60 for 3 quarts, which equates to about 2.9 Litres.

I will report on my findings when I’ve fitted it.

 

[bigwood]

Just to side track things a bit I worked on a vehicle that took OEP 600 in its gearbox. It was normal practice to stand the oil cans on the exhaust box the day before to make it easier to pore. It was like treacle cold.
No mater how thick it was we still had the occasional seal let go throwing oil all over the gearbox.
We put some in an oil can on bench to watch people trying to oil things with it.

 

[Jake Royd]

Well , I replaced the gearbox oil with Red-Line yesterday.
Only done a short test so far.
The synchromesh on 4th is still beatable but is does seem higher up the rev range and speed of shift (say changing out of 3rd at about 3000 rpm and shifting a bit more aggressively than my normal movement).
The shift quality does seem smoother with less feel of the lumps on the way from one gear to the other.
I know an oldish Ducati is never going to have a very good shift quality.

Measuring the oil I took out only seemed to be about 2.5 LTRs, so a bit low (waited 10 mins).

I put 2.85 LTRs in or so.
3 packs of Red-Line =2838ml

I will post the process l used later.

 

[JJ]

In the "good old days" a small quantity of saw dust in the gear box used to help second hand vehicle sales...

JJ

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[donkey]

In the "good old days" a small quantity of saw dust in the gear box used to help second hand vehicle sales...

JJ

I have just made a note " Do not buy a van from JJ"

Geoff

 

[JJ]

I have just made a note " Do not buy a van from JJ"

Geoff

But, but, but Mr Geoff...

I clearly posted "in the good old days", not now.

JJ

 

[donkey]

Too late for but, but ,but You have shown us all that you have knowledge of this practice, now is that from first hand knowledge?

As for the good old days, that could have been last week for all we know.

Buyer beware

Geoff

 

[donkey]

Having looked back at this post I notice the thread is titled

Gearbox oil additives/friction modifiers​

Can't argue with JJ there. Saw dust would certainly be classed as an additive and it would definitely be a friction modifier.

Geoff

 

[Dorset Diver]

Anyone remember double de-clutching?

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[Two on Tour]

Anyone remember double de-clutching?

We (it is in fact Yvette's) have a 1930 Austin Seven "C" cab van, so we are still double de-clutching.

 

[donkey]

I stand no chance without double de clutching on my 1965 International tractor.

Geoff

 

[Steve N Tracy]

Anyone remember double de-clutching?

Yes my first car a 1961 mini, every syncro was shot, so had to double de-clutch on every shift apart from reverse, still once learnt it was useful for driving cars back to the workshop, with shot clutch hydraulics or snapped cables.

 

[Garfields]

as several relatives “worked” for British Leyland...

No need to apologise

 

[Jake Royd]

Here is the brief of how I changed the gearbox oil.
1) Drain plug. On my 2008 X250 this, surprisingly is removed with a 8mm SQUARE male drive.
I had not expected this but fortunately had one pictured.
2) I drained 2.5Ltrs out. This was slightly warm from a run. I left it 10 mins. The drain plug has a thin copper washer.
3) I then removed the breather cap from the top surface of the gearbox. This just pops off by hand.
4) I made up a funnel with a length of hose attached to it. I made up a spigot to slip inside the stem left in the breather when the cap has been removed. A diameter of 14mm is just right.
5) Then poured in 3 Quart packs of Red-Line , these as I mentioned above are pretty much the recommended 2.9Ltrs.

No mess and no fuss , it's in there for life.
I had no leakage by the breather stem and after a short test run no oil pushed out of the breather.

No need to apologise

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