Gas Bottles. This is the question, should one install a refillable system, or not?

[Minxy]

I am about to take delivery of my first motorhome, in which I hope to spend extended time touring in Europe. I think I. Have convinced myself that a refillable gas bottle system is the way to go. I have the following queries. Are the refillable bottles/ fittings interchangeable? Can you have a large refillable bottle i.e 11/13 kg and a standard calor bottle? Which system is best? gas it is cheaper than gaslow, and Alugas is lighter in weight. Thoughts advice please. The list of things I think I need/want is growing by the hour! Any other advice gratefully received. TIA

Our twin 11kg Gaslow system works perfectly for us, in our previous Globecar PVC we didn't use much gas as we had an 'electric only' fridge, but now have a conventional 3-way one (love it!), so our gas usage is higher. When we were away for over 2 months in France/Spain (Dec 2019-Feb 2020) we kept it topped up and used around 95 litres in total which is possibly more than some but as we wild camped or used aires we never used electric for cooking (only ate out once) and had the heating on a fair bit too, plus we were 'static' for a lot of the time so the fridge was on gas for days on end.

If you want to have a worry free time then a twin refillable system will be the best as you won't have to look for places to refill a single bottle so often, and whilst you can supplement it with a Calor/non-user-refillable bottle, you could end up just carting it around and never using it, then if you do you've got to somehow keep track of how much is left in it so you know you have it as a back-up for the future, not to mention the hassle of lugging it out and putting another in.

One thing we don't have is an auto-changeover so that we know when one bottle is empty and we can switch it over to the new one - if we think the original one is getting low we'll pre-empt the need to switch over and do it a day or so earlier to avoid having it go off in the middle of the night!

You can mix Gaslow and Gasit fittings, for example I use a Gasit small square filler with my Gaslow system, and sometimes it can be cheaper sourcing the parts separately than buying a 'kit'.

 

[Peppadog]

Anyone able to give a ball park cost for adding a refillable setup?

Yes. A year ago I bought a twin 11kg Gaslow system, including all fittings and European connectors from Autogas 2000 Ltd in Thirsk (I think). They sent it next day. I think it was about £520 all in.
Speak to them on the phone. They will tell you what you need for your van and what they don't know about gas installations aint worth knowing. They have been in business since the 90's

 

[Lenny HB]

Always had re-fillables in the Motorhomes, it was bad enough lugging small 6 kg bottles about in our tugging days.

We have 2 x 14 kg (approx 56 Lt total) Alugas bottles that's gives us enough gas for 4 to 5 weeks providing its not too cold, normally fill up when one bottle is empty.
Also you can swap re-fillables to the next van, ours are on their 2nd van..

Alugas bottles are ½ the weight of steels ones, also with the Alugs bottles at 10 years when they need testing and referbishing you can get it done at the Alugas factory and its cheap. Gaslow & Gas-it won't do it.

 

[Northernraider]

I wouldn't even consider normal calor bottles these days.

Twin 11kg gas it refillables in mine which without heating does around 2 months

Never had a problem finding gas

When i bought the kit for my frankia from gas it the total cost including delivery was £380 that was all pipework 2 bottles and external filler.

The system in my hymer is the more expensive 4 valve bottles with emergency shut off and fitted guages

I wouldn't fit auto changeover as manual means you know when one is finished and how long you have to fill it before the other is empty.

Price has varied from €0.35 L to €0.85 L .... depending where i am but always far cheaper than calor.

 

[DandG5515]

Just get use out of your motorhome first, need to work out usage, are you gas heated? Are you going to go on sites with electric hook up? (Can use electric heating, even portable) I run 3 different gas systems for my van and work. Refillable have a tank life of 10 years. Refillable gas is roughly half price, so a £400 system you need to £800 of calors to break even. The last system I bought was a single 11kg gasit from sail and trail.

just enjoy your motorhome first. Good luck

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[two]

We've been refused filling of our Gaslow twice, this was when we had an internal filler, having an external filler means we have only once been asked whether it was for 'propulsion' or 'cooking' as that particular garage was extremely picky so when we answered honestly we weren't allowed to fill it. This is one of the reasons why for the last two Globe cars and our current Carthago that I fitted external fillers, I don't think that's possible with Safefill.

Where I go to refill, I answer "cooking" because I then get it at lower tax rate than if for "propulsion"!
There isn't a fitting to enable a SafeFill cylinder to be filled from an external fill-point but I'm sure one could be made up if you really wanted to. It's just not necessary.

 

[Minxy]

Always had re-fillables in the Motorhomes, it was bad enough lugging small 6 kg bottles about in our tugging days.

We have 2 x 14 kg (approx 56 Lt total) Alugas bottles that's gives us enough gas for 4 to 5 weeks providing its not too cold, normally fill up when one bottle is empty.
Also you can swap re-fillables to the next van, ours are on their 2nd van..

Alugas bottles are ½ the weight of steels ones, also with the Alugs bottles at 10 years when they need testing and referbishing you can get it done at the Alugas factory and its cheap. Gaslow & Gas-it won't do it.

My original bottle is now in it's 6th MH, when we had a Chausson the gas locker would only take a single bottle so having a refillable already was a big plus point as it was vital for us to be able to top it up whilst we were abroad.

Out of interest how much do Alugas charge for refurbishing?

 

[Minxy]

Where I go to refill, I answer "cooking" because I then get it at lower tax rate than if for "propulsion"!
There isn't a fitting to enable a SafeFill cylinder to be filled from an external fill-point but I'm sure one could be made up if you really wanted to. It's just not necessary.

It depends where you are when you need to top up, some places don't have a lot of filling places (Ireland for example) so being turned away and having to go somewhere else isn't an easy thing as you can travel a good distance as we had to once where one place had closed down, the next one had a faulty pump, so we ended up having to travel to a third place (the 2nd place checked the 3rd one had it and it was working before we went!). If the 3rd one had turned us away we'd have been quite put out. I want my holidays to be as stress-free as possible and having an external filler removes one of the reasons for refusal.

 

[Lenny HB]

Out of interest how much do Alugas charge for refurbishing?

A Funster had his done last year it was either €80 or £80 for 2 bottles. You have to go to the factory in Germany.

 

[Lenny HB]

It depends where you are when you need to top up, some places don't have a lot of filling places (Ireland for example) so being turned away and having to go somewhere else isn't an easy thing as you can travel a good distance as we had to once where one place had closed down, the next one had a faulty pump, so we ended up having to travel to a third place (the 2nd place checked the 3rd one had it and it was working before we went!). If the 3rd one had turned us away we'd have been quite put out. I want my holidays to be as stress-free as possible and having an external filler removes one of the reasons for refusal.

We were told a one place in Portugal "we don't fill bottles" I pointed at the external filler & told her it was a tank and she filled me.
I wouldn't risk not having an external filler point.

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[Stealaway]

We were told a one place in Portugal "we don't fill bottles" I pointed at the external filler & told her it was a tank and she filled me.

I think its because too many people have bought the illegal standard bottle filling adaptors.
I was actually given one recently, along with some European adaptors

 

[Lenny HB]

I think its because too many people have bought the illegal standard bottle filling adaptors.
I was actually given one recently, along with some European adaptors

Probably because its illegal to fill hab tanks I know it is in Spain & Italy.

 

[Minxy]

Probably because its illegal to fill hab tanks I know it is in Spain & Italy.

Do you mean bottles that are meant to be user-refilled or the Spanish/Italian equivalent of Calor?

 

[Minxy]

I think its because too many people have bought the illegal standard bottle filling adaptors.
I was actually given one recently, along with some European adaptors

I hope you broke up and binned the 'illegal' one.

 

[Kozikot]

Most Petrol Stations doing away with LPG pumps, as now realise the Future is Electric, so fitting Recharging Stations instead...

Apparently no NEW Petrol/Diesel Cars after 2030,so only LPG customers would be Moho or the other things that are towed by the uneducated ! ( Jest )...

Also LPG bad for Modern engines without Oil drip feed,most if not all Aftermarket LPG Converters gave Ceased Trading or doing Conversions...

I use to do 240Ml everyday in a VX Vectra Duel Fuel, now I don't think any Car Manufactures do a Dual Fuel, Petrol/LPG...

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[Minxy]

I use to do 240Ml everyday in a VX Vectra Duel Fuel, now I don't think any Car Manufactures do a Dual Fuel, Petrol/LPG...

I suspect part of the reason for that is because petrol fuelled cars became much more efficient and gave higher MPG than when dual fuel cars were first introduced.

 

[Kozikot]

I suspect part of the reason for that is because petrol fuelled cars became much more efficient and gave higher MPG than when dual fuel cars were first introduced.

Possibly, but LPG use to be less than half the price of petrol per Lt, don't know what it is now, but sure its nowhere near half the price...

 

[Minxy]

Possibly, but LPG use to be less than half the price of petrol per Lt, don't know what it is now, but sure its nowhere near half the price...

Last time we got LPG at Morrisons it was 55p a litre, petrol is currently £1.10 at Asda so double but you'd need to be doing a lot of miles to get 'payback' now and of course diesel engine vehicles also became much more 'sporty' almost matching petrol vehicles for performance.

 

[Kozikot]

Last time we got LPG at Morrisons it was 55p a litre, petrol is currently £1.10 at Asda so double but you'd need to be doing a lot of miles to get 'payback' now and of course diesel engine vehicles also became much more 'sporty' almost matching petrol vehicles for performance.

I cant remember correctly, as it was about 12yrs ago the last time I did that run, but did it for 13yrs in Total, think I was paying 38/39p per Lt for LPG,only put a Tenner petrol in once every 6 months ish... just to start the Car and get it warm ....think Petrol was 98/99p Lt...

 

[Stealaway]

I hope you broke up and binned the 'illegal' one.

I'd never use it but they are still readily available at £21

I paid 0.66 / litre last week for my new bottles to be filled.

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[Usually confused.]

New to this motorhome lark and we’ve had fitted 2x6kg Gaslow system with auto changeover thingy and it’s remarkably simple to operate and lpg is cheap! Filled both bottles from empty for about £20.

can’t be bothered lugging and exchanging bottles so got it all fitted by the dealer for half price as part of the deal.

mine tip is to download the LPG.eu app which is pretty accurate in giving you locations to fill up (not all are petrol stations but independent suppliers but opens up the places you can fill up that you’d never have considered before). Also, use the changeover thingy to just use one bottle. The gauges are notoriously flaky so when one bottle has emptied, you flick it over and then you know you have the time to fill up and with the app you can plan your route around it.

Good system. Highly recommended.

 

[Rds559]

Don't rush. Get the basics first and discover what you actually need. There are sheds all over Europe filled with essential stuff that folk have found they never needed.

I only tour abroad and installed one 6kg Gaslow refillable and one Calor exchangeable, both permanently connected but with manual changeover (I simply shut the refillable's tap and open the Calor's tap) because I want to know if the refillable has emptied. I have not yet had to change to the Calor as abroad I'm on the road every two or three days and can top up the refillable with as little or as much as is needed to fill it, and at so many places.
View attachment 450508

View attachment 450509

Why not 2 refillable can you get calor in Europe

 

[Spriddler]

Why not 2 refillable can you get calor in Europe

No you can't get Calor in Europe and in my experience LPG filling stations in U.K. are becoming fewer, hence a belt 'n braces installation which covers me for needs in U.K. as I do use my m/h in U.K. but don't holiday or tour with it.
E.g. I only use the m/h in U.K. when volunteering a checkpoint/refreshment stop (brew and bacon sarnie) at various weekend motorsport and all night reliability events.

 

[sweetie]

Always had re-fillables in the Motorhomes, it was bad enough lugging small 6 kg bottles about in our tugging days.

We have 2 x 14 kg (approx 56 Lt total) Alugas bottles that's gives us enough gas for 4 to 5 weeks providing its not too cold, normally fill up when one bottle is empty.
Also you can swap re-fillables to the next van, ours are on their 2nd van..

Alugas bottles are ½ the weight of steels ones, also with the Alugs bottles at 10 years when they need testing and referbishing you can get it done at the Alugas factory and its cheap. Gaslow & Gas-it won't do it.

According to gaslow website you can exchange 15 year guarantee bottles for refurbished bottle with the same 15 yr guarantee. But I couldn’t see the price. Mine are 13 years old now and in third van.

 

[Lenny HB]

Do you mean bottles that are meant to be user-refilled or the Spanish/Italian equivalent of Calor?

No, gas for habitation use, legally garages are only allowed to fill for LPG fueled engines.

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[gpat]

Most Petrol Stations doing away with LPG pumps, as now realise the Future is Electric, so fitting Recharging Stations instead...

Apparently no NEW Petrol/Diesel Cars after 2030,so only LPG customers would be Moho or the other things that are towed by the uneducated ! ( Jest )...

Also LPG bad for Modern engines without Oil drip feed,most if not all Aftermarket LPG Converters gave Ceased Trading or doing Conversions...

I use to do 240Ml everyday in a VX Vectra Duel Fuel, now I don't think any Car Manufactures do a Dual Fuel, Petrol/LPG...

Incorrect. Check the Dacia website. They have just launched a duel fuel sandero

Dacia Bi-fuel: Our LPG vehicles - Dacia UK

Find out everything you need to know about LPG and discover Dacia Bi-fuel. How LPG works, its advantages, and the range of Dacia Bi-fuel vehicles.

www.dacia.co.uk

 

[Rds559]

Always had re-fillables in the Motorhomes, it was bad enough lugging small 6 kg bottles about in our tugging days.

We have 2 x 14 kg (approx 56 Lt total) Alugas bottles that's gives us enough gas for 4 to 5 weeks providing its not too cold, normally fill up when one bottle is empty.
Also you can swap re-fillables to the next van, ours are on their 2nd van..

Alugas bottles are ½ the weight of steels ones, also with the Alugs bottles at 10 years when they need testing and referbishing you can get it done at the Alugas factory and its cheap. Gaslow & Gas-it won't do it.

2x14 you must have a big truck

 

[Rds559]

According to gaslow website you can exchange 15 year guarantee bottles for refurbished bottle with the same 15 yr guarantee. But I couldn’t see the price. Mine are 13 years old now and in third van.

I had heard that LPG garage were getting less in the uk but we are always in Europe

 

[Rds559]

No, gas for habitation use, legally garages are only allowed to fill for LPG fueled engines.

Never heard that

 

[RedFrame]

Just about the best change I have made on the van. Underslung 60litre tank moves weight lower and more central, frees up a large locker and makes getting LPG no problem anywhere in Europe as we carry the adapters.

We went for two 11Kg bottles, on reflection I think an underslung tank might have been a better option.

Lots of interesting views and information- thank you all for your input. I think an external filing point sounds like it’s the best thing, we currently have a 6kg and a 13kg Calor gas bottles and were planning on getting the same (or similar) sizes as refillable and we hadn’t actually considered a low slung tank, so we have some more decisions to make now

Definitely go with external point, if you decide on bottles then go with a 6 and 11, run off 11 and use the 6 as reserve, just our two penneth.

Cheers
Red.

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