Frost damage

[Smudger55]

Our travels wouldn't be interesting if we didn't have problems on them.

This time water gushing out from fresh water tank where outlet pipe joined tank.

We've been in - 5 to - 8 degrees at least in Castleton. Wednesday pipes frozen, had heating inside, tank heaters on. Looked in fresh water tank film of ice on top. Sorted all this out without a problem.

Yesterday, similar problem but as we were driving to Yorkshire thought allow to defrost naturally whilst leaving tank heater on when driving. Manual said you could do that.

Arrived at M18 services went for coffee then returning back to van, water pouring out from underneath. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Seems fault point was where outlet pipe joins water tank. Decided to head home but as mid afternoon booked into Chatswirth CMC. Ha...... covered in frost.

We have frost tank heaters which should come on when temp is below 2 degrees.

Seems this may not have happened WHY do you think?

If they worked why what's the point if the lagged pipes freeze up?

What's the point of of them if the water can get out of pipes. Suppose fact the empty tank button was on no, might contribute to the problem.

All I can think is that the journey broke up the layer of ice which dropped down to the outlet pipe blocking/freezing it up.

Why did it pour out when we stopped after driving for over 1hr and not on journey?

Welcome some thoughts.

 

[Pausim]

Our travels wouldn't be interesting if we didn't have problems on them.

This time water gushing out from fresh water tank where outlet pipe joined tank.

We've been in - 5 to - 8 degrees at least in Castleton. Wednesday pipes frozen, had heating inside, tank heaters on. Looked in fresh water tank film of ice on top. Sorted all this out without a problem.

Yesterday, similar problem but as we were driving to Yorkshire thought allow to defrost naturally whilst leaving tank heater on when driving. Manual said you could do that.

Arrived at M18 services went for coffee then returning back to van, water pouring out from underneath. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Seems fault point was where outlet pipe joins water tank. Decided to head home but as mid afternoon booked into Chatswirth CMC. Ha...... covered in frost.

We have frost tank heaters which should come on when temp is below 2 degrees.

Seems this may not have happened WHY do you think?

If they worked why what's the point if the lagged pipes freeze up?

What's the point of of them if the water can get out of pipes. Suppose fact the empty tank button was on no, might contribute to the problem.

All I can think is that the journey broke up the layer of ice which dropped down to the outlet pipe blocking/freezing it up.

Why did it pour out when we stopped after driving for over 1hr and not on journey?

Welcome some thoughts.

I expect the water poured out when the frozen block that caused the damage melted. Lagging only delays freezing. If the pipe is lagged I guess it is external not internal, the chill factor below a vehicle can be considerable whilst it is moving and wet lagging could reduce the temperature well below the ambient temperature.

 

[Garfields]

If you have external pipe work the lagging will make very little difference to them freeing.

 

[Badknee]

On our static van we have heat trace wiring from below the ground up to the floor where the water enters the van, this works great but it’s 230v not sure if you can get 12v

 

[Two on Tour]

On our static van we have heat trace wiring from below the ground up to the floor where the water enters the van, this works great but it’s 230v not sure if you can get 12v

Yes you can Paul, I use it on our grey waste pipe from the tank to the drain tap, so we can still dump grey waste in freezing conditions.

1m 12V 24V 36V 48V Self Regulating Heating Cable Anti-Freeze Protection Pipe Cars Trucks Warm Wire - AliExpress 13

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[whisky walker]

Yes you can Paul, I use it on our grey waste pipe from the tank to the drain tap, so we can still dump grey waste in freezing conditions.

1m 12V 24V 36V 48V Self Regulating Heating Cable Anti-Freeze Protection Pipe Cars Trucks Warm Wire - AliExpress 13

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Hiya,

First time I've ever seen this before but looks good. I had an issue the other day where the drain valve pipe froze, luckily it thawed and no problem. Just a quick question, where did you run your 12v supply from?

Cheers

 

[Brize]

Yes you can Paul, I use it on our grey waste pipe from the tank to the drain tap, so we can still dump grey waste in freezing conditions.

Useful, thank you.

I notice it says that it can run up to 60°, so would that start to melt a plastic pipe, or do you put lagging around it first?

Other question: do you just run one length along the pipe (if that is sufficient), or do you wrap it round like lagging - if so, how close are the loops?

Thanks

 

[Two on Tour]

Hiya,

First time I've ever seen this before but looks good. I had an issue the other day where the drain valve pipe froze, luckily it thawed and no problem. Just a quick question, where did you run your 12v supply from?

Cheers

Our fresh and grey waste tanks are under our van, so I fitted thermostatically controlled heat pads to the bottom of our tanks, and the trace heat cable is linked onto the grey waste heat pad, which are powered from our hab battery.

 

[Two on Tour]

Useful, thank you.

I notice it says that it can run up to 60°, so would that start to melt a plastic pipe, or do you put lagging around it first?

Other question: do you just run one length along the pipe (if that is sufficient), or do you wrap it round like lagging - if so, how close are the loops?

Thanks

The cable I linked too was just picked to highlight that the trace heat cable is available for 12v.

The cable that I'm using from memory can get to 36c, but it is unlikely to get anywhere near that due to the environment that it is operating in the cold weather.
The cable is quite stiff, so my cable is cable tied so touching the underside of the pipe from the tank working on the basis that heat rises, and in turn the pipe/cable is lagged with foam type pipe insulation.
The cable works by the pos and neg wires in the cable being separated by a semi conductive material which its electrical resistance reduces with heat, so it heat output is self-regulating.
As it heats up, the resistance reduces so less power is used and the cable would eventually reach an equilibrium of power supplied to heat produced.
As the semi conductive material between the wires is a conductor, the wire ends are not required to close the loop, as the semi conductive material is doing that.

 

[meanders]

As it heats up, the resistance reduces

Surely as it heats the resistance needs to increase so current is reduced (assuming constant voltage.)?

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[Landy Andy]

Useful, thank you.

I notice it says that it can run up to 60°, so would that start to melt a plastic pipe, or do you put lagging around it first?

Other question: do you just run one length along the pipe (if that is sufficient), or do you wrap it round like lagging - if so, how close are the loops?

Thanks

No, it would not melt the pipe. As your water heater heats water to 60 degrees, and the pipes are fine with it.

 

[Two on Tour]

Probably Robin, but it was the principle of how it works was what I was trying to explain.

 

[pappajohn]

All I can think is that the journey broke up the layer of ice which dropped down to the outlet pipe blocking/freezing it up.

Ice floats

 

[whisky walker]

Our fresh and grey waste tanks are under our van, so I fitted thermostatically controlled heat pads to the bottom of our tanks, and the trace heat cable is linked onto the grey waste heat pad, which are powered from our hab battery.

Brilliant,

Mine is the same on the Kon tiki, I have heaters in the tank but the pipe still freezes so I'll fit this and pick up the live and neg from under the van somewhere.

Cheers