Fogstar 280 v 300

[G1969]

Can anyone advise if there is a difference in quality on the fogstar drift 300 v 280. The spec sheets below give rhe 280 8000 cycles at 80% v 4500 cycles on the 300, or am I reading it wrong?

 

[Bolti]

My reason in going for the 280 was the difference in price. The 300 just wasn't worth the extra.

 

[GMLS]

The difference in cycles is probably negligible to most.Usually one is available when the other isn't.Just buy one, any one

 

[Onemanandhisdog]

I did check that with them, they confirmed it wasn't a mis print, the 280 is different cells.

 

[Guigsy]

I too went for the 280Ah. I was unlikely to need the extra 7% capacity. And it cost a lot more then 7% more. And appeared to have worse longevity.

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[Just smiffy]

I like the range that Offgrid power solutions have, only a little cheeper then fogstar but some people have been having problems with them.
I like the fact that RogerIvy and nigelivy are members on here and always giving support plus you get 10%discount by being a member.

I think I’ll be stretching to the new Victron b2b from them and eventually change my gels to one of these possibly the 230ah..

Offgrid 280Ah LiFePO4 12v Battery with Smart Battery Management System & Bluetooth — Offgrid Power Solutions

If this item shows as “in stock” it will be dispatched the next working day or is available for collection the same day from our Oxfordshire warehouse. If you’re building out a van and looking for a 12v LiFePO4 battery for your rig, our Offgrid OPS280 is a fantastic battery option! This battery i

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[TrudeandDall]

Do you mean the Off-grid or the fogstar when you say having problems?

 

[RogerIvy]

For some time the Eve 280 cells have had the improved terminals that significantly extend the number of cycles. They look like this

There is a bit of flex in the terminals and when the cells expand and contract the internal stress is decreased.
Up until a few months ago the 304ah cells looked like this

Not as flexible resulting in more stress as the cells expanded and contracted.
In addition to the changes (improvements) to the terminals the new busbars that work with the new terminals have also been improved, instead of being stiff and rigid they now consist of multiple thin layers of metal and the result is a much more flexible bar. Even less stress on the terminals.
For some time the 304’s used the old style.
But for the last few months both our 304’s and 280’s have been based on the new improved terminals and busbars.

I’m just spitballing here, but wondering if their 304 stock are the old style.

Our stand is close to theirs at the NEC, I’ll wonder over and have a chat (coz I’m curious anyway).

 

[Raul]

The difference is in the cells generation. The LF304k are second generation cells, same as the older LF280k cells. In their new 280ah batteries, now they use LF280K V3, third generation of 280ah. The third generation of the LF304K are going to be sold very soon with a increased capacity, more than 304ah.

 

[Raul]

For some time the Eve 280 cells have had the improved terminals that significantly extend the number of cycles. They look like this
View attachment 865832
There is a bit of flex in the terminals and when the cells expand and contract the internal stress is decreased.
Up until a few months ago the 304ah cells looked like this
View attachment 865833
Not as flexible resulting in more stress as the cells expanded and contracted.
In addition to the changes (improvements) to the terminals the new busbars that work with the new terminals have also been improved, instead of being stiff and rigid they now consist of multiple thin layers of metal and the result is a much more flexible bar. Even less stress on the terminals.
For some time the 304’s used the old style.
But for the last few months both our 304’s and 280’s have been based on the new improved terminals and busbars.

I’m just spitballing here, but wondering if their 304 stock are the old style.

Our stand is close to theirs at the NEC, I’ll wonder over and have a chat (coz I’m curious anyway).

Those are V2 and V1 single stud. The new V3 I think are octagonal shape rather than oval. A square with the corners clipped. Do you already got the V3 yet?

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[Lenny HB]

I like the range that Offgrid power solutions have, only a little cheeper then fogstar but some people have been having problems with them.
I like the fact that RogerIvy and nigelivy are members on here and always giving support plus you get 10%discount by being a member.

I think I’ll be stretching to the new Victron b2b from them and eventually change my gels to one of these possibly the 230ah..

Offgrid 280Ah LiFePO4 12v Battery with Smart Battery Management System & Bluetooth — Offgrid Power Solutions

If this item shows as “in stock” it will be dispatched the next working day or is available for collection the same day from our Oxfordshire warehouse. If you’re building out a van and looking for a 12v LiFePO4 battery for your rig, our Offgrid OPS280 is a fantastic battery option! This battery i

offgridpower.solutions

Both batteries use EVE cells.

 

[RogerIvy]

Those are V2 and V1 single stud. The new V3 I think are octagonal shape rather than oval. A square with the corners clipped. Do you already got the V3 yet?

All our 280 and 304 cells have the dual stud terminals. TBH I didn’t know they had a version number, we just knew they were the very latest design after talking to our Eve supplier in China.
I think Eve have run down their older 304 stock and now only supply the new format (Version?)

It is my understanding that Eve don’t manufacture separate 280 and 304 cells. They are both made in the same run. At some point they measure the voltage and internal resistance and basically the cells are put into “4 categories”:
Grade A 304 with a QR code
Grade A 280 with a QR code
Grade B (280?) with a QR code (we never buy grade B so I don’t know the capacity)
Rejects (don’t even have a QR code)
If someone has more info on this I’d like to hear it

Anyway, if the above is true I wonder why they had so many “older” 304 cells. Does the process result in more 304 than 280?

 

[Just smiffy]

Do you mean the Off-grid or the fogstar when you say having problems?

I believe it’s the app for the BMS that fogstar have had some problems with….

 

[RogerIvy]

I believe it’s the bms that fogstar have had some problems with….

To be specific it’s their app that some people have had some issues. I‘m pretty sure the BMS itself is rock solid.
Actually, I chatted about it with them yesterday, I mentioned that when debugging I use the JBD app as it’s more responsive - they agreed.
I have to say I have enjoyed my interactions with Becky and Ben (Fogstar). Solid folk.

 

[Guigsy]

When AMD and Intel make pc chips, they'll have several in the same range that all use the same silicon. When they chips have been spun and tested, they are graded. The best ones get binned to work at the highest speeds. Some have failed areas, so those cores get disabled and they get binned as cheaper CPUs. As the production matures, they get better and better yield. So high grade chips get binned to run at lower speeds than they're actually capable of. Selling a spread of models makes them more profit. I'm guessing the same happens with battery cells?

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[Just smiffy]

To be specific it’s their app that some people have had some issues. I‘m pretty sure the BMS itself is rock solid.
Actually, I chatted about it with them yesterday, I mentioned that when debugging I use the JBD app as it’s more responsive - they agreed.
I have to say I have enjoyed my interactions with Becky and Ben (Fogstar). Solid folk.

Yes.. sorry got mixed up, now corrected my post…

 

[Raul]

The very first 280ah was called LF280, and the v2 LF280K. They had a weak batch of LF280K V2, that got mixed with the good LF280k V2. Some have tested below 280ah, like 278ah. Not in my case, mine came in at 290-292. But some folk, did have the unfortunate deal, mainly in the US, and one case I personally know of in UK. I’m referring to LF280K grade A V2 with double terminal welded. So, EVE, has improved on a already good cell, and brought a revised more robust 280ah V3. These cells, bellow the welded terminal, are octagonal vs the oval with a point, like on the old ones V1-V2.

The LF304k had a revamp to, from 5.55kg grew to 5.8kg, and tested at 320ah plus. These 304 V3 are not yet in the UK, unless personal import. But Asia, Australia, and US, already sells them.
Saying that, last year I got 4 LF304K b grades, and tested 308ah.

 

[Al n Val]

To be specific it’s their app that some people have had some issues. I‘m pretty sure the BMS itself is rock solid.
Actually, I chatted about it with them yesterday, I mentioned that when debugging I use the JBD app as it’s more responsive - they agreed.
I have to say I have enjoyed my interactions with Becky and Ben (Fogstar). Solid folk.

Since seeing your post regarding the JBD app Roger a week or two ago i’ve been using it and 100% agree it certainly seems more responsive than the Fogstar app, I not had issues with the Fogstar app at all btw.

I was messing about as you do (as I do) in the Fogstar app last week and wondered what the load check setting was in the advanced settings, what is it for and what happens if you activate it does anyone know.

I’ll tell you my experience when someone comes back with any info, put it this way it’s stopped me messing about

 

[RogerIvy]

I was messing about as you do (as I do) in the Fogstar app last week and wondered what the load check setting was in the advanced settings, what is it for and what happens if you activate it does anyone know.

I’ll tell you my experience when someone comes back with any info, put it this way it’s stopped me messing about

I’m pretty sure that when “Load Check” is enabled you will need to disconnect the load completely after a short-circuit before the battery pack can be used again. A safety feature really.

 

[RogerIvy]

Ah - seems I was wrong!

I chatted to Ben and he said that the number of cycles is the spec provided by Eve. Simples. It’s obviously to do with the internals.
In fact, FogStar buy cells without terminals and weld their own on.
Eve are apparently bringing out a 306ah cell that will have 10,000 cycles. How many years is that for most people

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[RogerIvy]

Assume you cycle once a week on average
3500 / 52 = 67 years
And for 4000 cycles
4000 / 52 = 77 years
Now for the future 10k 306’s
10000 / 52 = 192 years
Of course, unless we time travel nobody knows what length of time these cells will really last. Hence why we bank on 10 years. By then we’ll have shiny new tec.

And in 192 years I think only Willie Nelson will still be alive

 

[G1969]

Assume you cycle once a week on average
3500 / 52 = 67 years
And for 4000 cycles
4000 / 52 = 77 years
Now for the future 10k 306’s
10000 / 52 = 192 years
Of course, unless we time travel nobody knows what length of time these cells will really last. Hence why we bank on 10 years. By then we’ll have shiny new tec.

And in 192 years I think only Willie Nelson will still be alive

Thanks Roger,

What is the definition of "cycle ", I presume 0 to 80 %?, how does that work if you keep topped up from say 50% , does the bms count the watts in/out and divide by the capacity of the battery?

 

[Raul]

That would be ideal, in reality, the calendar life and electrolyte break down, will creep up before we have the chance to use up the potential number of cycles. Also depends from case to case, no installation is the same,

 

[RogerIvy]

Thanks Roger,

What is the definition of "cycle ", I presume 0 to 80 %?, how does that work if you keep topped up from say 50% , does the bms count the watts in/out and divide by the capacity of the battery?

A “cycle” is a full discharge & recharge. So if you discharge from 100 to 75 and recharge once it’s a quarter of a cycle. Do it 4 times and it’s counted as a full cycle.
The BMS, like a Smartshunt, counts coulombs in and out and it’s pure subtraction.