Fire Extinguishers For Lithium Battery Fires

[Wombles]

Whilst we are big fans of the Fire Safety Stick for most categories of fire the Funsters on this thread https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...nguisher-15-discount-xmas-offer.308067/page-2 did raise an important issue which is what type & size of fire extinguisher to carry for lithium battery fires?
The Fire Safety Stick advice:
"The Fire Safety Stick is not certified for lithium batteries.
It is likely to extinguish the very initial flame but due to thermal runaway, the fire will come back and therefore it should not be used. The Fire Safety Stick is likely to be OK with very small lithium batteries.
It is possible to purchase other small Lithium battery certified fire extinguishers, however, our view is that for such batteries from around the size of a leisure battery, e-bike or e-scooter is not to approach such a fire as they can very quickly escalate to a much larger fire, giving very toxic vapours and act very much like a roman candle, exploding dangerous particle, flames in all directions.
Always ensure that you never charge the batteries in a position likely to block your escape and that all batteries (and chargers) are purchased from legitimate sources."

There is one product AVD https://www.avdfire.com/what-is-aqueous-vermiculite-dispersion/#:~:text=Fire Accreditation Partnerships-,What makes AVD unique?,Fire blankets. that may be the solution & there are a range of fire extinguishers that now include this material.
haganap shared his choice - the Sea Fire AVD extinguisher https://www.amazon.co.uk/500ml-Aerosol-Lithium-Battery-Extinguisher/dp/B0D2JNGYT9?tag=mhf04-21
fishplug found this interesting chart for how big an AVD extinguisher is needed for each application:

Thought it worth posting to raise awareness of what is currently out there in what is sure to be a growth market. If anyone has spotted any alternative options or if any there are any fire safety experts on here please post to share your knowledge.

 

[jumar]

Interesting...

 

[AdrianChen]

Hmm ours are 5,530Wh, so going to need a bigger van for those I guess.....

 

[Guigsy]

Most motorhome lithium batteries are Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4). It doesn't self oxidize, even when over charged, punctured or soaked in water. They are possibly safer than lead acid.

The lithium batteries in phones, laptops, drones and cars are more likely to be lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide (NMC) or lithium nickel cobalt aluminum oxide (NCA) chemistry. These are lighter and higher energy density. But they're also more smokey 'splody.

 

[haganap]

Most motorhome lithium batteries are Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4). It doesn't self oxidize, even when over charged, punctured or soaked in water. They are possibly safer than lead acid.

The lithium batteries in phones, laptops, drones and cars are more likely to be lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide (NMC) or lithium nickel cobalt aluminum oxide (NCA) chemistry. These are lighter and higher energy density. But they're also more smokey 'splody.

My thoughts exactly.

Hence why I opted for an extinguisher designed for these types of fire.

My concern is cheap bike batteries or worse still, played with ones.
As a cyclist and an ebike owner amongst my 7 various bikes (2 if nikki asks) its handy to know to run as opposed to staying there fighting it with something ineffective.

It's amazing what you do when in a fire. When my carthago caught fire, after attempting to put out the fire with blanket and extinguishers, my next thought was to remove the gas bottles to avoid explosion with my house so close.

Sometimes, threads like these put things in your head which you then act on in a crisis as they seem to stay there.
The truth is, none of us know how we will react in a crisis, but having some tools available like the extinguishers mentioned might just help.

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[carolyn]

I have to confess that with lithium batteries and LPG tanks it would never occur to me to do anything other than remove myself. Like Wombles I’d be most interested to hear professionals advice. I do prefer to follow experts advice like fire officers.

 

[Scottish Scrutineer]

https://firexo.com/firexo-success-fighting-lithium-ion-fires/

Seem to have a good reputation for their products

 

[Wildbill]

Fire starts in van try first defensive actions
If safe but in the case of those batteries the best thing to do is walk away to a safe distance
And watch the fireworks
That the advice of my eldest grand son fire officer In fife
WB

 

[jumar]

I have to confess that with lithium batteries and LPG tanks it would never occur to me to do anything other than remove myself. Like Wombles I’d be most interested to hear professionals advice. I do prefer to follow experts advice like fire officers.

Having done my 30 years as a front line Fire Officer. I can honestly say that dealing with a Lithium battery Fire are way beyond my level of expertise using domestic Fire fighting means..
Having said this, most fires start small and grow out of control...it's that initial strike that saves the day, and your motorhome too...a cooking mishap or any other simple source of ignition can be brought under control and in many cases dealt with in a safe and orderly manner....
It's not a bad idea to risk assess, be prepared and play safe..have adequate means to fight a fire in its early stages...beyond that...I wouldn't advise putting yourself at risk...If Lithium is a worry to me, I wouldn't sleep at night amongst 400 amp of Leisure batteries, 2 high power eBikes in the garage, and a Bluetti power bank...what would concern me more was the small appliances, like phones, tablets etc left overnight charging.(Which we don't)..just my thoughts.

 

[carolyn]

Having done my 30 years as a front line Fire Officer. I can honestly say that dealing with a Lithium battery Fire are way beyond my level of expertise using domestic Fire fighting means..
Having said this, most fires start small and grow out of control...it's that initial strike that saves the day, and your motorhome too...a cooking mishap or any other simple source of ignition can be brought under control and in many cases dealt with in a safe and orderly manner....
It's not a bad idea to risk assess, be prepared and play safe..have adequate means to fight a fire in its early stages...beyond that...I wouldn't advise putting yourself at risk...If Lithium is a worry to me, I wouldn't sleep at night amongst 400 amp of Leisure batteries, 2 high power eBikes in the garage, and a Bluetti power bank...what would concern me more was the small appliances, like phones, tablets etc left overnight charging.(Which we don't)..just my thoughts.

So sounds like we do the same as you then and my plan to walk away if a fire involves lithium stuff is the correct one. I sleep like a log, the only thing that will disturb my sleep is worry about children (34, 32 and 28)

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[Gromett]

For small ones like laptop and phone which I tend not to worry about I have a fire blanket handy to try and keep it contained until the initial flare up has gone. Then I will bundle it up using my oven blanket and lob it outside then deal with anything remaining.

For a LiFePO4 battery I don't even worry about it.

But that said. I am no expert and only have my very basic fire training from when I was with the DoE/PSA.

 

[Guigsy]

I wouldn't sleep at night amongst 400 amp of Leisure batteries, 2 high power eBikes in the garage, and a Bluetti power bank...what would concern me more was the small appliances, like phones, tablets etc left overnight charging.(Which we don't)..just my thoughts.

The ebike battery is probably the exploding kind. But that leisure and power bank are probably LFP, so don't even burn particularly well when placed in a fire.

As for small appliances with potentially volatile lithium batteries. I suspect I've got 50-100 of them at home. Most people have a few dozen. Lithium cells are in everything. And yet house fires are pretty rare.

 

[poppycamper]

Out of interest... how many on here have actually witnessed firsthand a phone/laptop etc catching fire??

 

[CAB96]

Out of interest... how many on here have actually witnessed firsthand a phone/laptop etc catching fire??

Not me.

But I have a few older phone batteries which have swollen up, and which I therefore replaced before they got any worse.

 

[jumar]

Not me.

But I have a few older phone batteries which have swollen up, and which I therefore replaced before they got any worse.

Me too...we were in a hotel in Poland having had a week trekking in the Tatras...last day got soaked before taking a bus back to base..
Judith's phone battery got hot and increased in size...we slept well knowning we had put it outside before going to bed..

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