Fiat Ducato suspension advice

[celestine]

Hi, I posted just under a year ago regarding advice on my 2006 Ducato Riviera 171 leaf springs.
It’s only done 35000 miles. I bought it around Feb 2022 and when i bought it the seller told me he had upgraded the leaf springs to heavy duty springs. When it went for its MOT around June last year, it was discovered that 1 leaf out of the 4 was cracked, so I joined this forum for advice regarding replacements.The general consensus was that Jones springs were the boys, so I rang them and had a chat. Lovely guy said that he couldn’t see why the Jones 2 leaf heavy duty spring wasn‘t suitable as the sell around 7 pairs a week to Ducato owners. I told him I had a Motorhome. That was fine.
Their service was second to none. Ordered 10.30 am one day and arrived in Cornwall 11am the next.
Unfortunately, I have just been around the Scottish islands for a couple of weeks and the van was rolling dangerously. Awful around corners and I could feel every bump and pothole.
The MOT is due in a month and my mechanic has advised me to go back on this forum for advice and I’m also chatting with Jones springs to try and sort it.
So, anyone on here with a similar van? Do I buy an extra heavy duty pair from Jones and try and sell mine? They cost around £580 a pair and times are hard. Air suspension which I know nothing about? I suppose I could try and find the Fiat Ducato Motorhome number and see what they advise.
I’ve put a bit of spec of the van on here and hopefully upload a couple of pictures of the springs on the van now.
Any advice gratefully appreciated, but I’m a bricklayer so not terribly mechanical.
18LWB, Max authorised weight, 3850kgs, unladen mass, 2963kgs, payload 888kgs, length 6.7

Regards,, Paul

 

[Landy Andy]

In those photos I see that one spring is much more compressed than the other. I hope this is due to the van not being on a level surface. All motorhomes wallow to a degree due to the weight, and its distribution. It all depends what you are used, and comparing it to. Air assist was a huge improvement for me, but so was getting away from camping tyres and the silly high pressures they recommend for them.

 

[celestine]

In those photos I see that one spring is much more compressed than the other. I hope this is due to the van not being on a level surface. All motorhomes wallow to a degree due to the weight, and its distribution. It all depends what you are used, and comparing it to. Air assist was a huge improvement for me, but so was getting away from camping tyres and the silly high pressures they recommend for them.

Thanks Andy, one wheel is on the kerb so that’s probably why it looks uneven. The tyres are Landtrain and it’s printed 69psi on the tyres so that’s what the pressure is.

 

[Landy Andy]

That’s good news. I was worried that you were on flat ground and had issues. Looking at the pictures it looks like one side has about 25mm and the other about 100mm so on average that’s good if loaded.

I would highly recommend air assist, which isn’t massively costly, and I’m sure a hands on chap like a bricky can self fit it.

 

[Cush]

celestine your bump stops look like they are taking a hammering. Has it had any upgrades to make it much heavier? For the previous owner to feel the need to upgrade the springs and then to hear your troubles I would be looking for what the cause is too. or could it just be an unlucky coincidence. hope you get sorted soon. I’m going to be trialing sumosprings soon.

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[celestine]

celestine your bump stops look like they are taking a hammering. Has it had any upgrades to make it much heavier? For the previous owner to feel the need to upgrade the springs and then to hear your troubles I would be looking for what the cause is too. or could it just be an unlucky coincidence. hope you get sorted soon. I’m going to be trialing sumosprings soon.

The bump stops are a bit tatty and it hasn’t had any upgrades. I’ll have a look at those sumo springs but I feel a bit uneasy trying to guess my way out of rolling, uncomfortable ride.
Anyway, I’ve got a few weeks before the MOT to try and find a remedy.

 

[Phill D]

The 69 psi on the walls of the tyres is for USA market not uk / eu. Continental camper tyres have the same but conti recommend pressures are different.
Also are your shocks in good nick?

 

[Spriddler]

It may be the photo but isn't there a rubber block missing on one side? The bump stop looks in worse condition on the side with the missing rubber block.

There appears to be a rubber block on this side...........

but not on this side........

 

[TheBig1]

The bigger picture here is that the van has had 2 sets of replacement springs already, so it must be weight related. You put the MAM, but what does the van actually weigh, and especially the rear axle? Air assist will reduce body roll and reducing the tyre pressures slightly will reduce harshness. The 69 psi on the tyre is the maximum pressure based on the american system. Somewhere nearer 60 will allow the tyres to be a little more giving as the van moves

I would definitely be fitting airbags though as it will vastly improve the way the van handles

 

[Jev88]

I have trusted CoastalMotorHomes for suitable suspension but that was front end.

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[donkey]

Unfortunately, I have just been around the Scottish islands for a couple of weeks and the van was rolling dangerously. Awful around corners and I could feel every bump and pothole.


View attachment 743684 View attachment 743685

That does not sound right. You need to check for broken rear spring, loose spring 'U' bolts, worn out shock absorbers, tyre pressures. Also check suspension and tyres on front axle.

Geoff

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

+1 for air bags, do away with the tattered and ineffective standard bump stops.

 

[jezport]

I think some of the issue may be due to the tyres, Are they the correct load? Also 69psi sounds low for the rear. My non camping tyres are running at 74 at the back, but I have full air suspension the same as on ambulances.

 

[Manic]

I would fit airbags in place of the rubber cones.

 

[headlight]

If I were the OP the first thing I would do is take the van to a weighbridge and get the overall and front and rear axle weights.
I greatly improved my ride by weighing my van and then adjusting my tyre pressures accordingly.
As others have said I would ignore the pressure stamped on the tyres.

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[Gaston aires]

Air suspension on the rear makes a big difference. Helps immensely with roll but I definitely would get it onto a weigh bridge for axle weight check. I did one recently to check ours, costs around £30.
Phil

 

[headlight]

I had mine weighed at a Biffa waste transfer station and they said they couldn't charge me.
I tried to give the weighbridge operator £20 but they refused.
Obviously if the OP is going to weigh his van he wants it loaded up the same as if he was going on a trip.
I found that my front tyre pressures were way to high and my rears to low.
Unsurprisingly the ride was rock hard at the front and soft and wallowy at the rear.
Altering the pressures transformed the ride and saved me forking out on a suspension upgrade which I had been considering.

 

[Millcourt]

Definitely the first thing to do is get to a weighbridge and find the weight of each axle. However do this with full water/fuel/gas and empty waste water/cassette, as well as fully loaded with all of the kit/food/clothes etc you normally set out with and if you normally travel with driver and one passenger with both of you on board (or however many normally on board) and get the weights for as you will be travelling, not with the van empty. Then compare this with the axle weights shown on your plate to see if either axle is overloaded and the overall weight is not exceeded.

 

[AlastairH]

Air suspension transformed the ride and handling on mine dramatically.

 

[celestine]

I had mine weighed at a Biffa waste transfer station and they said they couldn't charge me.
I tried to give the weighbridge operator £20 but they refused.
Obviously if the OP is going to weigh his van he wants it loaded up the same as if he was going on a trip.
I found that my front tyre pressures were way to high and my rears to low.
Unsurprisingly the ride was rock hard at the front and soft and wallowy at the rear.
Altering the pressures transformed the ride and saved me forking out on a suspension upgrade which I had been considering.

I had mine weighed at a Biffa waste transfer station and they said they couldn't charge me.
I tried to give the weighbridge operator £20 but they refused.
Obviously if the OP is going to weigh his van he wants it loaded up the same as if he was going on a trip.
I found that my front tyre pressures were way to high and my rears to low.
Unsurprisingly the ride was rock hard at the front and soft and wallowy at the rear.
Altering the pressures transformed the ride and saved me forking out on a suspension upgrade which I had been considering.

Thanks for all the replies. I’m going to book the van into a Weighbridge tomorrow. I’ll get back on here with the results and see if anyone can work out what pressures I need for each axle.

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[CamperManLez]

Your springs look fine, good clearance to the rubber assisters, some people on this forum have fitted SUMO springs from Rhodes vans, and to my surprise have used the higher rating yellow option. They give good reviews and I am considering them myself. Around 300 quid I believe. Any garage can fit them. The weighbridge visit will add to the picture, if you’re near your gross weight it will wallow on corners.

 

[DDJC]

VB semi air suspension, plus compressor and L & R air gauges. Stopped my bus from wallowing. Also, gives extra ground clearance for ferry ramps, and can often level on site without using the ramps.

 

[Peregrinator]

You only need Air Suspension, to stop the all the problems your having, everyone seems to be giving you all the right advice, you will find it a better drive.
I installed a air bag system on mine MH, similar to the one in ebay link below, only my one had one switch for the pump, there are other ones on ebay with a double switch, for each side, that's the ones I should have got, but the ones I have are great, the double switch are about £100 more, took me 3 hours to install, put the blue tubes though the gas box and drilled hole from gas box to top inside wheel arch, see photos, every thing fitted perfect. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/26518316...d=link&campid=5338547443&toolid=20001&mkevt=1

​

 

[lekkerSA]

Hi, I posted just under a year ago regarding advice on my 2006 Ducato Riviera 171 leaf springs.
It’s only done 35000 miles. I bought it around Feb 2022 and when i bought it the seller told me he had upgraded the leaf springs to heavy duty springs. When it went for its MOT around June last year, it was discovered that 1 leaf out of the 4 was cracked, so I joined this forum for advice regarding replacements.The general consensus was that Jones springs were the boys, so I rang them and had a chat. Lovely guy said that he couldn’t see why the Jones 2 leaf heavy duty spring wasn‘t suitable as the sell around 7 pairs a week to Ducato owners. I told him I had a Motorhome. That was fine.
Their service was second to none. Ordered 10.30 am one day and arrived in Cornwall 11am the next.
Unfortunately, I have just been around the Scottish islands for a couple of weeks and the van was rolling dangerously. Awful around corners and I could feel every bump and pothole.
The MOT is due in a month and my mechanic has advised me to go back on this forum for advice and I’m also chatting with Jones springs to try and sort it.
So, anyone on here with a similar van? Do I buy an extra heavy duty pair from Jones and try and sell mine? They cost around £580 a pair and times are hard. Air suspension which I know nothing about? I suppose I could try and find the Fiat Ducato Motorhome number and see what they advise.
I’ve put a bit of spec of the van on here and hopefully upload a couple of pictures of the springs on the van now.
Any advice gratefully appreciated, but I’m a bricklayer so not terribly mechanical.
18LWB, Max authorised weight, 3850kgs, unladen mass, 2963kgs, payload 888kgs, length 6.7

Regards,, Paul

View attachment 743684 View attachment 743685

As a retired suspension design and dev engineer, I’d be concerned about the significant difference in apparent bump stop clearance as shown on the photos. Suggest recheck clearance on level ground and if still excessive then check rr axle wts was side to side - don’t know these spring rate values but if difference is more than say 60-90kg, then get spring rating checked, one spring appears to be much stiffer than the other

 

[Redken]

Hi, I posted just under a year ago regarding advice on my 2006 Ducato Riviera 171 leaf springs.
It’s only done 35000 miles. I bought it around Feb 2022 and when i bought it the seller told me he had upgraded the leaf springs to heavy duty springs. When it went for its MOT around June last year, it was discovered that 1 leaf out of the 4 was cracked, so I joined this forum for advice regarding replacements.The general consensus was that Jones springs were the boys, so I rang them and had a chat. Lovely guy said that he couldn’t see why the Jones 2 leaf heavy duty spring wasn‘t suitable as the sell around 7 pairs a week to Ducato owners. I told him I had a Motorhome. That was fine.
Their service was second to none. Ordered 10.30 am one day and arrived in Cornwall 11am the next.
Unfortunately, I have just been around the Scottish islands for a couple of weeks and the van was rolling dangerously. Awful around corners and I could feel every bump and pothole.
The MOT is due in a month and my mechanic has advised me to go back on this forum for advice and I’m also chatting with Jones springs to try and sort it.
So, anyone on here with a similar van? Do I buy an extra heavy duty pair from Jones and try and sell mine? They cost around £580 a pair and times are hard. Air suspension which I know nothing about? I suppose I could try and find the Fiat Ducato Motorhome number and see what they advise.
I’ve put a bit of spec of the van on here and hopefully upload a couple of pictures of the springs on the van now.
Any advice gratefully appreciated, but I’m a bricklayer so not terribly mechanical.
18LWB, Max authorised weight, 3850kgs, unladen mass, 2963kgs, payload 888kgs, length 6.7

Regards,, Paul

View attachment 743684 View attachment 743685

Air assist suspension, about £250 on eBay makes a massive difference.

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[Cush]

Thanks for all the replies. I’m going to book the van into a Weighbridge tomorrow. I’ll get back on here with the results and see if anyone can work out what pressures I need for each axle.

I’d definitely be interested in knowing that too

 

[celestine]

I’d definitely be interested in knowing that too

Well, I popped into the Weighbridge near Wadebridge, and I think with all the advice received on here, I’m just too heavy which I’m a bit surprised at.
Plus, and apologises for this, I forgot to mention that the owner before me had put an extra 2 50 ltr water tanks as he was off a lot with his family. The van is a 5 berth.
So, filled up the water tanks, half a tank of fuel, emptied the waste water, put 2 56lb weights on the passenger floor, and put a full 20ltr water container in the kitchen to act as food, clothing and such like.
The gross weight was, 3540kg.
Front axle weight was, 1540kg.
Rear axle weight was, 1980kg.
So I was 40 kg overweight, which makes sense on the rolling on the Isle of Arran a couple of weeks ago as we like to go off grid as much as possible so I’d have made sure we had plenty water on board. The original sales brochure from when the van was built shows a maximum authorised weight of 3850kgs. Is that because driving licences were different then?
And another thought, even if I got rid of the extra water storage, approximately 100kgs, and had a full compliment of people on board, I would probably still be overweight.
I think I’ll just travel with half full water, and I’m seriously looking at air suspension. Thanks for all the advice on those.
Can anyone advise on the tyre pressures given the two axle readings?
Thanks again for all your input. I’ve put a photo of the data plate from inside the bonnet and a photo of a data plate from the passenger footwell.

 

[Cush]

Appreciate your update. I must get my van weighed

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

If you have a C1 licence there's scope in those axle weights for an upgrade, possibly to over 4000kg.
Ask "Van Weight Engineering" for their take on the figures, they'll tell you what's possible.
Good luck.
Mike.