Extras and upgrades - which are most important?

[Brains]

Alarm
Tracker
Auto engine stop
Solar
Possibly Rear camera/sensors and GasLow
(All of which can be fitted by VanBitz)

After that I'd be inclined to use it for a season and see what you really need.

 

[Glas Robin]

Bought our Van in Apr 21 and I have a detailed spreadsheet for every category of expenditure to give me overall cost for depreciation over 7 years], loan interest, repairs servicing & upgrades/additions, VED, insurance, fuel; and also the per mile equivalent, and it's breathtaking/eyewatering! Things like the depreciation don't actually cost you cash, but I use the cost as an indicator or measure against the repairs cost [which is obviously a cash cost]. When the cost of repairs exceeds the cost of depreciation, it's time to think about changing the vehicle.

We have covered 2577 miles since purchase; we've had a Lithium Battery & Refillable Gas system fitted, and spent a further £200 or so on Bike Covers+ Warning Signs, a DIY water pump for refilling the tank without having to drive 75m each way to the water tap with a cold engine etc,, in all about £1925 of 'one off' setting up costs. Fuel to date has cost £513 [Ave 31mpg], Insurance £495, VED £270, Depreciation £7,600 +Loan Interest, which you will need to calculate based on your own circumstances.

Just about 5 months of usage and the total costs, including non cash costs, are £22,276 or a more reasonable £4.83 per mile ... cheaper to book a hotel and hire a taxi!]. BUT, this assumes that the Van is scrapped after 7 years and I get nothing for it. In practice, when I P/Ex a vehicle, I add the value back to the spreadsheet and it recalculates the depreciation costs, both in total and per mile. Because I'm OCD/Anal retentive, the spreadsheet records these figures for every year of ownership, total & per mile, for each of the expense categories, so that after 7 years I can sit down and have a good cry, thinking what I could have done with all that money ...

Steve

I like your style. But why are you depreciating to zero over 7 years? You've already said the assett will have residual value at that point. I think the useful lifespan of a new moho these days is easily 15 years (and probably more) and it will still have a value then. I will have changed vans I hope before 7 years (3 years in now) but I expect/hope that the cash/pex value at that point will be about half what I paid for it and that's before you factor in inflation.

By fully depreciating now, you're just unecessarily depressing yourself with your over-estimate costs per mile/TCO.

TL;DR: Sod the money and just enjoy it.

By the way - would you be willing to share the blank spreadsheet? Pretty please? I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in it...

 

[MitchandJenny]

Hello. I’m still doing my research before taking the plunge with a 5.4m PVC. I’m new to the whole scene and am still working out what ‘essentials and extras’ I would need. I would be interested in your views. For example, solar panel, extra leisure battery, insulated waste water tank, blind spot assist, reversing cameras, alarm…. The list seems endless. I want as much assistance as possible with driving, and be as comfortable and safe as possible.

I started looking at second hand vans but want an automatic, which are hard to find, and 3-4 year old vans with a good spec are selling for not much less than brand new, so I’m thinking I might as well buy new on the basis that I will get what I want and it will hold its value well. It seems I would have to buy unseen as the dealerships don’t have any in stock to view and, even if they did, they don’t allow test drives! As I’ve never driven a van before it seems rather daunting.

Also, what are the general annual running costs with a motorhome, including insurance, servicing, maintenance etc.?

Any thoughts will be gratefully received. It would mostly just me and my two dogs travelling.

TIA

Wifey.
Mitch.

 

[gus-lopez]

 

[deleted79651]

I like your style. But why are you depreciating to zero over 7 years? You've already said the assett will have residual value at that point. I think the useful lifespan of a new moho these days is easily 15 years (and probably more) and it will still have a value then. I will have changed vans I hope before 7 years (3 years in now) but I expect/hope that the cash/pex value at that point will be about half what I paid for it and that's before you factor in inflation.

By fully depreciating now, you're just unecessarily depressing yourself with your over-estimate costs per mile/TCO.

TL;DR: Sod the money and just enjoy it.

By the way - would you be willing to share the blank spreadsheet? Pretty please? I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in it...

Hi Robin,

My professional training and personality makes me comfortable with the depreciation period; it never depresses me, it gives me information that I can use to measure whether the asset [car or m/home] is giving Value for Money, and to help me decide whether the intended Shiny Kit Syndrome/Boys Toys additions/upgrades are going to be a good move. I know the depreciation is a non cash item and the adding back of the eventual P/Ex sum just tidies the Overall Cost & Cost Per Mile figures up. It's also a wee hobby!

I'll need to do some checking and tidying up of the formulae before I share the spreadsheet. I'm still uncovering the odd anomaly that I adjust on the fly [and I stay away from macros!], including the need to adjust the data ranges at each anniversary date to ensure that the calculations only pick up the current year's data, e.g. I normally allocate 10 rows for Repairs/Servicing at the start of the year, and then revise the allocation at the year end.

We're going to grab a weekend break from tomorrow, so it'll be Tuesday before I look at the spreadsheet

Steve

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[martin2603]

My neighbour now passed, was a retired accountant. As I had the dubious task of sorting his assets for probate I found he had kept accounts for every year of his life, every receipt and bank statement , share certs , the list was endless. Took about 4 weeks to get it all in order,
My current MH is 4 years old and it’s value is pretty close to its purchase price.
Yes we use depreciation for business assets, not sure I follow on this one. Any extras such as Dish or Gaslow would be transferred to a mew purchase.

 

[deleted79651]

My neighbour now passed, was a retired accountant. As I had the dubious task of sorting his assets for probate I found he had kept accounts for every year of his life, every receipt and bank statement , share certs , the list was endless. Took about 4 weeks to get it all in order,
My current MH is 4 years old and it’s value is pretty close to its purchase price.
Yes we use depreciation for business assets, not sure I follow on this one. Any extras such as Dish or Gaslow would be transferred to a mew purchase.

The mantra for the Lending Banker was to write everything down over its useful life, to ignore hidden values for assets, e.g. false prices such as those enjoyed by m/homes at present, and to ignore residual values, because the replacement cost + funding/cashflow implications would obliterate any tangible benefit.

A Dealer Member Funster said that a margin of £8k between forecourt and trade in price was about right, and my 7 year write off plan gives rise to Year 1 depreciation of £7,592. At the end of Year 7, Brunhilde will be 1 month shy of her 12th birthday, and, depending upon ICE Bans etc, she may well be approaching the 'Paperweight' phase. There may be similar bans looming for Refillable Gas Systems, so any residual value or transferability my become a moot point. In any event, the Gaslow transfer would only save me the one off cost of buying the system. I have already pointed out that I set the P/Ex for my vehicles against the write off amount to get a final Cost of Ownership set of data.

Finally, I do all of the above for my own satisfaction and amusement. I am happy to offer my figures and to explain the basis of calculation. If anyone disapproves, they are welcome to ignore my posts and/or to make their own calculations. I share infomation to stimulate discussion because there is always something new to learn from each episode/exchange and it helps keep the brain active. But, first and foremost, my hobby, my amusement, my figures to play with as I have for the last 29 years+

Steve

 

[Drexl]

We did a factory order for our Boxer van. We ticked quite a lot of options available at the time. It started as an L4 H2 Asphalt 435 2.2 140 BHP 6SP manual and had a decent spec as standard such as cab air con, auto lights and wipers, cruise control/speed limiter, DAB radio, sat nav (rubbish but don't use it), stop start, heavy duty suspension.
Options included for the base van:
Metallic paint
All road pack (traction+, hill descent control, 4 season tyres, sump guard)
Electric folding door mirrors
Heat reflecting windscreen
Passenger airbag
Single seat in lieu of double seat (no cost)
Tyre pressure monitoring
Leather steering wheel

Some of the things we wouldn't do without on the conversion side of things are:
Maxx Fan - this is brilliant esp when you cook in the van and also can leave on low speed all night for ventilation without midges getting in!
WIFI with external antenna
400 Ah of LiFePO4 batteries
350W solar panels
Small-ish Victron inverter for charging laptop/leccy toothbrushes/plate warmer
Awesome electrical solar charging/battery management all by Votronic - with bluetooth App toy
Compressor fridge
Underslung LPG tank (very cheap to refill)

Going for a new van made sense to us as we got exactly what we wanted along with peace of mind with the new van warranty. Not the cheapest route though.

 

[Drexl]

And to add:
Backup camera, rear parking sensors and Cat1 alarm were standard fitment on our van. Camera and sensors essential in my opinion.
Duvalay freshet toppers (we have a U shape lounge and made into bed) are the comfiest ever. ZZZzzzzz

 

[MisterB]

Perhaps you need to look at it from a different angle .... Àir to inflate tyres used to be free, water to fill your tank used to be free, you used to be able to travel throughout the UK without paying congestion charges ..... park wherever you want ( but considerately), have your bins emptied once a week .... It might actually work out cheaper to spend money on a time machine and 'warp' back in time ... Now show me a spreadsheet on that, and I'm in !!

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[newbiecamper]

The mantra for the Lending Banker was to write everything down over its useful life, to ignore hidden values for assets, e.g. false prices such as those enjoyed by m/homes at present, and to ignore residual values, because the replacement cost + funding/cashflow implications would obliterate any tangible benefit.

A Dealer Member Funster said that a margin of £8k between forecourt and trade in price was about right, and my 7 year write off plan gives rise to Year 1 depreciation of £7,592. At the end of Year 7, Brunhilde will be 1 month shy of her 12th birthday, and, depending upon ICE Bans etc, she may well be approaching the 'Paperweight' phase. There may be similar bans looming for Refillable Gas Systems, so any residual value or transferability my become a moot point. In any event, the Gaslow transfer would only save me the one off cost of buying the system. I have already pointed out that I set the P/Ex for my vehicles against the write off amount to get a final Cost of Ownership set of data.

Finally, I do all of the above for my own satisfaction and amusement. I am happy to offer my figures and to explain the basis of calculation. If anyone disapproves, they are welcome to ignore my posts and/or to make their own calculations. I share infomation to stimulate discussion because there is always something new to learn from each episode/exchange and it helps keep the brain active. But, first and foremost, my hobby, my amusement, my figures to play with as I have for the last 29 years+

Steve

Hello marchie. In your calculations, have you compared the depreciation of a new vehicle vs second hand? I’m considering buying new as it will give me the spec I want and I’ve seen similar 4 year old vans on sale for close to the same price, so buying new seems like a much better option. Or am I missing something?

 

[newbiecamper]

Thank you everyone for your comments. They are incredibly helpful. As a complete novice I need all the insight I can get. The main attraction for me of motorhoming is the freedom to hop in with the dogs and go on adventures and I’ve been thinking about it for a few years. I would like the comfort of using serviced pitches, but I also like peace and quiet so want to be able to park up comfortably in more remote sites without EHU. I went to the Morthorhome show at the NEC a few years ago (before Covid) and loved the bigger mh’s, then test drove one and felt it was too much to handle. So now looking for the smallest option with comfortable bed, shower, toilet etc, and the 5.4 campervans seem to tick all the boxes. I do question how easy it is to travel around different campsites with dogs, but I figure it can’t be that difficult as so many people do it.

 

[deleted79651]

Hello marchie. In your calculations, have you compared the depreciation of a new vehicle vs second hand? I’m considering buying new as it will give me the spec I want and I’ve seen similar 4 year old vans on sale for close to the same price, so buying new seems like a much better option. Or am I missing something?

No, I only start with the price of the Van I buy; a fellow Funster, replying to my PPI Report questions was kind enough to point out that we were paying £2000 more for our almost 5 year old 2016 Van than he had paid for the same model, brand new in 2016 ... That still stings, but is a feature of the current market.

Other Funsters have pointed out that buying new does not guarantee a trouble free start to motorhoming,and getting faults rectified under warranty can mean more of a season in the Dealer's Workshop than on the road, especially with COVID problems. A fair few Funsters support the notion of buying a 3 or 4 year old Van, where the previous owner has taken the initial depreciation hit, the faults should have been fixed, and you ought to be able to get a couple of years grief-free use before the maintenance & renewal items begin to surface. They also point out that a good 2nd hand Van may well have those vital 'extras' in place, courtesy of the original owner's 'Shiny Kit Syndrome' [if he hasn't transferred them to his new Van!].

Good luck!

Steve