Experiencing Low Power Error with Giandel 2000w Inverter

[lonnie]

I'll start this post with the admission that I've done my the research AFTER the install

I've had the invertor installed for a while and it gets occasional usage for the usual suspects (e.g. hairdryer, straighteners and microwave).

With the help of previous posts (Lenny, autorouter, DBK, Raul etc) I'm more knowledgeable about batteries and I've spent a good few hours reading the battery university website recommended by Raul.

So, I now know that my two 110ah Hankook sealed calcium batteries are going to be cooked pretty quickly by a 2000w invertor. This may not be a bad thing in the long run if the Finance Director releases funds for a lithium based replacement. Although that won't happen unless there's a catastrophic impact on hairdressing capability!

In the short term, and with a two-month trip to Europe about to kick off, I have a specific question about the invertor as I don't know whether there is a fault with the unit itself.

We've never been able to run the microwave (Daewoo KOR-6L5R - input 1200W) very long before the invertor packs up. Although we have better results (longer usage) if we turn the power down to 80%. The issue is a 'Low Power' error - which should kick in at 9.5v.

I tested it again last week and took a video of the invertor - these are a couple of screen grabs as it 'tripped' after around 90 seconds (just before the error, it was showing 10.8V and ~1.4kwh)...

However, I monitored the battery through the Victron smartshunt and the voltage didn't drop below 11.4v...

So, I know I have to address my Ah in the near future but I just wondered if any other Giandel users (with a similar setup) were getting the same issues or could I have a faulty unit?

TIA, Martin

 

[Lenny HB]

If the voltage at the inverter is correct it would suggest you are getting a volt drop and the 12v cables to the inverter are far too small.

1200 Watts is about 110amps including Inverter losses, the max you should draw from 220ah of lead batteries is 44 amps.

 

[Swifter]

Have you double checked all the connections are firm and intact?

 

[DBK]

My guess is either cables too thin for the length of run as Lenny HB suggests or an issue with the batteries. How old are they? If they are nearing the end of their life this might explain things. Or a combination of both factors.

 

[Jev88]

Not sure it helps but you can buy adapted microwaves. Company inserts a soft start circuit and also rates down to 500watts.
"Kitchenware online"

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[lonnie]

Thanks gents.

The batteries are just coming up to 2 years old.

The inverter is sat on top of the batteries and I've used 35mm cable which should be good for 240amps

I'll check all the connections again tomorrow

 

[Lenny HB]

With 35 mm sq cables 1m long the volt drop would be 0.12v.
Check the voltage at the inverter with a meter when running it should only be 0.12v down on voltage at the battery.

 

[lonnie]

With 35 mm sq cables 1m long the volt drop would be 0.12v.
Check the voltage at the inverter with a meter when running it should only be 0.12v down on voltage at the battery.

Thanks Lenny, I'll check this tomorrow as well.

Interestingly, the voltage at the inverter consistently showed far lower than the smartshunt.

If you have a spare two minutes to spare, this is the video https://photos.app.goo.gl/12F3Yf4f1Xak4tCh7

 

[lonnie]

Not sure it helps but you can buy adapted microwaves. Company inserts a soft start circuit and also rates down to 500watts.
"Kitchenware online"

Thank Jev. This was a factory install by Elddis and it does have the ability to crank the wattage down.

With Lenny's example of 44amps being the max load on a 220Ah bank, I could take the power down to 40% to make it consume 480w.

It will take a little longer to cook Mrs L's baked potato though

 

[jezport]

Is it a cheap Chinese inverter?
Because inverters run at very high current they are one of the items I would only buy a quality brand. Two reasons, cheap ones usually are either under rated don't eork reliably or are a fire risk.

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[peterc10]

Thank Jev. This was a factory install by Elddis and it does have the ability to crank the wattage down.

View attachment 796360

With Lenny's example of 44amps being the max load on a 220Ah bank, I could take the power down to 40% to make it consume 480w.

It will take a little longer to cook Mrs L's baked potato though

Cheap microwaves don't work like that. Turning down to 40% just means they still get full power, but just for 40% of the time.

 

[JockandRita]

lonnie. I too have had the same inverter for about 3.5 years now. It is coupled to 4 x 90A SLA Varta batteries, with a much longer cable run of 35mm sq copper cable than your unit. Ours works perfectly and has never faltered once.
I have only used the 800w Microwave off the batteries for a few minutes to heat milk, or baked beans, etc.
Without the B2B running or being on EHU, I'd never attempt a jacket potato, due to the length of cooking time.

Is it a cheap Chinese inverter?

Like most things these days Jez, it is made in China, but it's not a cheap PSW Chinese inverter.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Jev88]

Thank Jev. This was a factory install by Elddis and it does have the ability to crank the wattage down.

View attachment 796360

With Lenny's example of 44amps being the max load on a 220Ah bank, I could take the power down to 40% to make it consume 480w.

It will take a little longer to cook Mrs L's baked potato though

Unless it is a true true inverter microwave 50% power means full power on and off every few seconds rather than a crank down in power.

 

[lonnie]

Cheap microwaves don't work like that. Turning down to 40% just means they still get full power, but just for 40% of the time.

Ahh, got it, thanks!

 

[lonnie]

lonnie. I too have had the same inverter for about 3.5 years now. It is coupled to 4 x 90A SLA Varta batteries, with a much longer cable run of 35mm sq copper cable than your unit. Ours works perfectly and has never faltered once.
I have only used the 800w Microwave off the batteries for a few minutes to heat milk, or baked beans, etc.
Without the B2B running or being on EHU, I'd never attempt a jacket potato, due to the length of cooking time.


Like most things these days Jez, it is made in China, but it's not a cheap PSW Chinese inverter.

Cheers,

Jock.

Thanks Jock. Like you, the inverter has been fine on most stuff other than the microwave.

Looks like I've just been expecting too much with a relatively small amount of available power!

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[SeanF1]

This is more likely to be a problem with the source of the power, not with the inverter. Your graph shows the microwave pulling over 130 amps at peak. Probably your batteries cannot handle this much draw, or as others have said poor cables/connections causing voltage drop

 

[lonnie]

Is it a cheap Chinese inverter?
Because inverters run at very high current they are one of the items I would only buy a quality brand. Two reasons, cheap ones usually are either under rated don't eork reliably or are a fire risk.

Hi Jez, although it's not a top end brand, Giandel do seem to be a big seller in Europe, US and Aus with good ratings on Amazon.

As Jock says, I think they are assembled in China.

 

[JockandRita]

Looks like I've just been expecting too much with a relatively small amount of available power!

I think that is your proverbial "nail on the head" Lonnie.

Hi Jez, although it's not a top end brand, Giandel do seem to be a big seller in Europe, US and Aus with good ratings on Amazon.

As Jock says, I think they are assembled in China.

I chose it because of the great reviews from Aussies, and also on UK canal/river boat forums.

The Merlin Imverter I removed because it failed dramatically, was quoted at around £600 to replace. The Giandel was much cheaper and has performed just as well, as a replacement.

I did initially by an Edeoca "so called" PSW Inverter, as seen on Fleabay and Amazon, (metallic green in colour), but it packed in within a short time
I opened it up hoping to just replace the 8 - 10 x fuses, but it turned out to be a right bag of nails. That definitely was cheap Chinese sh1t.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[lonnie]

With 35 mm sq cables 1m long the volt drop would be 0.12v.
Check the voltage at the inverter with a meter when running it should only be 0.12v down on voltage at the battery.

Just checked voltages; 13.89 at the battery, 13.84 at the inverter input terminals. I'd say the cables are about 50cm so this seems about right.

Also, checked everything for tightness.

My conclusion;

1. The Giandel inverter is working as expected
2. I need to have realistic expectations for what I can do with 220ah
3. I need to start saving and build a business case for a nice lump of lithium

Thanks again for your help guys. Very much appreciated

 

[Lenny HB]

Just checked voltages; 13.89 at the battery, 13.84 at the inverter input terminals. I'd say the cables

That is an off load voltage with a charger running.
I said measure it with the inverter on, by that I meant under load and preferably without any charging to the battery.

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[JockandRita]

3. I need to start saving and build a business case for a nice lump of lithium

Absolutely bang on old chap.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[DBK]

That is an off load voltage with a charger running.
I said measure it with the inverter on, by that I meant under load and preferably without any charging to the battery.

I agree. If under load the battery voltage plummets then the likely culprit is the batteries. If in good condition they should be able to meet the load. The batteries may only be two years old but they could be finished, possibly because of being run down too far in the past. Or they've just decided to join the Great Charger in the Sky.

 

[lonnie]

That is an off load voltage with a charger running.
I said measure it with the inverter on, by that I meant under load and preferably without any charging to the battery.

Apologies, I misunderstood!

I've just done another test with the load being a 1000w kettle;

	Shunt (v)	Inverter (v)	Delta (v)
Invertor off	12.66​	12.61​	-0.05​
Inverter on, no load	12.62​	12.58​	-0.04​
Inverter load	11.43​	11.14​	-0.29​
Inverter on, no load	12.44​	12.40​	-0.04​
Invertor off	12.60​	12.56​	-0.04​

 

[Lenny HB]

That looks normal

 

[lonnie]

That looks normal

Good news!, thanks for the quick response