Electrical problem?

[rf9ridrer]

Just been away for the first time, everything worked fine apart from a weird electrical problem.
On EHU, when the water pump is switched on, it heats the water!
The water heating button on the panel is switched off, so surely the water shouldn`t be heating up?
The pump has been replaced at some time as its not the original, has anyone came across this before?
I`ve had a quick look at the water heater and pump wiring, nothing obvious with any extra wiring, just wondering if the pump has been wired up wrong?
Have to remove a panel to look behind the consumer unit to see if anything obvious behind there tomorrow.

 

[I2C]

Just seen this. No idea what van you have but on our Swift Sundance there is a switch inside the wardrobe (bottom right) where you switch the hot water element on/off. To use gas instead we’d use the control panel option. Should add, there’s three switches there for water, heater and battery charger.

 

[Minxy]

Have you had the heating on? I assume you have a combi heating/boiler unit in which case when you put the heater on it will also warm up the water as a side benefit due to how the heating works.

 

[rf9ridrer]

Have you had the heating on? I assume you have a combi heating/boiler unit in which case when you put the heater on it will also warm up the water as a side benefit due to how the heating works.

No heating required, we live in Spain and currently 30 degrees here!
No combi boiler, we arrived on site, i hooked up the electric, primed the water, used the tap and noticed we had hot water and the water heater was turned off at the control panel.
Just an update, its not the water pump switch thats heating the water, as soon as you plug into electrics the water heater heats up on its own.
I was going to turn the heater off at the consumer unit, but it shares the switch with the fridge, so the wiring between the boiler and consumer unit has a connecting plug which ive undone for now to stop the water heater heating up.
Ive looked at the wiring, all looks ok, i did notice some relays on a pcb board attached to the fuse box, so im going to try and find an auto electrician to have a look.

 

[rf9ridrer]

Just seen this. No idea what van you have but on our Swift Sundance there is a switch inside the wardrobe (bottom right) where you switch the hot water element on/off. To use gas instead we’d use the control panel option. Should add, there’s three switches there for water, heater and battery charger.

Thanks for that, its a Swift Ace Firenze, theres no other switches on mine, apart from on the consumer unit, ive just updated my post, but the problem is that as soon as you hook up to electric, the water heater comes on when it shouldnt as the switch on the control panel is off!

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[Hoovie]

Thanks for that, its a Swift Ace Firenze, theres no other switches on mine, apart from on the consumer unit, ive just updated my post, but the problem is that as soon as you hook up to electric, the water heater comes on when it shouldnt as the switch on the control panel is off!

You haven't said the age of your Swift, but it is quite likely that there is a switch somewhere between the consumer Unit and the Heater that turns on the electric heater element of the hot water boiler, as I2C is suggesting. In his case it is in the wardrobe; in my van. The switch is in the little pan storage area under the cooker behind the drop-down glass door. These switches are randomly fitted in different models depending on where the water heater and electric supplies are fitted.
The control panel (again it depends on your vans age and what is fitted) may purely be for the GAS part of the heating to turn it on and set the temp. The Electric element has no control other then being switched on 'somewhere' if it were say a Truma Ultrastore.

It is important you sort this as if you leave it like it is, the element will burn out when the water heater is empty and you are on hookup on your driveway. Unplugging the cable as you have is a good idea until you find the switch.

 

[MisterB]

Or if you can't find a switch, put one in so you can turn it off?

 

[meanders]

Our Bessacarr 08 reg, had three little black rocker switches below the RcD and MCB's. They were unmarked and difficult to see as the 'silver' box was at the back of the wardrobe. These would get knocked or on by stuff on the wardrobe. I ended up putting a stick on a cheap plastic hinged cover.

 

[chatteris]

my 2003 bessacar has the switch below a removeable panel in floor of wardrobe

 

[Itsmcb]

my 2003 bessacar has the switch below a removeable panel in floor of wardrobe

That's random

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[Hoovie]

That's random

Totally. And if other makes take a similar approach to Autotrail (I bet they do), the switches are fitted in different places in different models within the range due to layout (the wiring routing is always dictated by the layout).

So MY van is an Autotrail Cheyenne 635.
THAT model has the Boiler switch under the cooker.
It also has the Electric Room Heater and the Fridge Switches in a locker with a drop-down flap under the Fridge.
A different model of Autotrail Cheyenne with a different layout will have the switches in a different place (I think the wardrobe is a popular place for the Water Boiler switch when the Boiler is under a panel at the bottom of the wardrobe? My boiler is in the washroom under the basin)

So ... it is always a good idea to tell people what brand of Motorhome you have AND the Precise model (e.g. Cheyenne 635, not just "Cheyenne") when either asking about switches or describing where yours are

 

[Bustup15]

Might have missed an earlier post but is it not most likely that the hot water switch is wired incorrectly e.g. On is Off and vice versa?

 

[I2C]

Thanks for that, its a Swift Ace Firenze, theres no other switches on mine, apart from on the consumer unit, ive just updated my post, but the problem is that as soon as you hook up to electric, the water heater comes on when it shouldnt as the switch on the control panel is off!

As others have said, the switch we’re all talking about (wherever it is in a conversion) has nothing to do with the control panel which for us is above the habitation door, it’s separate.

 

[rf9ridrer]

You haven't said the age of your Swift, but it is quite likely that there is a switch somewhere between the consumer Unit and the Heater that turns on the electric heater element of the hot water boiler, as I2C is suggesting. In his case it is in the wardrobe; in my van. The switch is in the little pan storage area under the cooker behind the drop-down glass door. These switches are randomly fitted in different models depending on where the water heater and electric supplies are fitted.
The control panel (again it depends on your vans age and what is fitted) may purely be for the GAS part of the heating to turn it on and set the temp. The Electric element has no control other then being switched on 'somewhere' if it were say a Truma Ultrastore.

It is important you sort this as if you leave it like it is, the element will burn out when the water heater is empty and you are on hookup on your driveway. Unplugging the cable as you have is a good idea until you find the switch.

There is no seperate switch for the water heater, the cable goes directly from the consumer unit to the heater, only way you should be able to turn on or off is on the control panel.
There is a connector in the cable between the con unit and heater which i have unplugged, so the heater now cant be used on electric, i have ordered a switch which i can fit where the connector is.
The MH is a 2005 Swift Ace Firenze, and it is the Truma Ultrastore.
Ive attached a picture of the control panel, the switch for the heater is bottom left.

 

[rf9ridrer]

As others have said, the switch we’re all talking about (wherever it is in a conversion) has nothing to do with the control panel which for us is above the habitation door, it’s separate.

There is no seperate switch on mine, only the switch on the control panel, ive traced all the wiring etc, the cable from consumer unit goes directly to the heater with no switch in it.

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[rf9ridrer]

Or if you can't find a switch, put one in so you can turn it off?

Switch ordered!

 

[Hoovie]

Those NE control panels would seem to be a bit flaky generally and it looks like owners have to pull the plug on them and leave disconnected for a short period (30 mins?) in order to do a reset of the functions to get them working correctly again
I'd give that a go if it were my van.

 

[I2C]

There is no seperate switch for the water heater, the cable goes directly from the consumer unit to the heater, only way you should be able to turn on or off is on the control panel.
There is a connector in the cable between the con unit and heater which i have unplugged, so the heater now cant be used on electric, i have ordered a switch which i can fit where the connector is.
The MH is a 2005 Swift Ace Firenze, and it is the Truma Ultrastore.
Ive attached a picture of the control panel, the switch for the heater is bottom left.

That’s the same control panel we have on our 2007 Sundance, not my favourite control panel I’ve ever used! You’re braver than I am taking it to pieces Would prefer simple switches for everything but that’s not the way converters go now, they love their complicated electronics which are a nightmare to repair .

 

[Nedge68]

Sounds to me like the relay on your NE control/fuse board has welded shut, this would mean the heater operating without being selected. You should be able to trace back to it from the heater power connector.

 

[rf9ridrer]

Sounds to me like the relay on your NE control/fuse board has welded shut, this would mean the heater operating without being selected. You should be able to trace back to it from the heater power connector.

Thanks for that, there are a couple of relays on a pcb board attached to the rear of the fuse box.
Next job is to trace the wiring on that.

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[Nedge68]

it the UK there is a very good repair company that repair NE boards

Apuljack Electronics

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www.apuljackelectronics.co.uk

 

[rf9ridrer]

it the UK there is a very good repair company that repair NE boards

Apuljack Electronics

default meta description (ContentText_DefaultMetaDescription)

www.apuljackelectronics.co.uk

Thanks for that, we live in Spain and fortunately i have a contact nearby that repairs pcb boards etc, he did a great job on the Truma heater fan switch pcb board.

 

[rf9ridrer]

Just an update, fused switch fitted today and everything now works as it should.
Might have been a sticking relay as Nedge68 suggested, as water heater wont work without first switching on at the control panel.
Will keep an eye on it and see how it goes, but at least i can now isolate it if problem comes back.

 

[Hoovie]

Having a handy place to directly control the supply is useful.
Like you, my Fridge and Boiler are on the same Breaker, so cannot use that. The dedicated switch for the Boiler is under the cooker and that is a pain to get to, so I fitted a fused switch by the main Sargent PDU ...

(Also decided to fit a handy AC Socket in the process as never know what you may need )

Inbetween the Boiler Spur and the Consumer Unit there is also a SSR (Relay) that is controlled by one of the Victron Cerbo relays. This stops the boiler getting power if the batteries are either too low a State of Charge, or the AC Load is over a certain value (so if the Water Boiler is on and I turn on the Microwave, the Boiler turns off automatically until the load is reduced - saves the Inverter going into overload).
And the above checks are only on Inverter. if the EHU is active, the SOC and Load values are ignored.
Works well and once initially setup is all automatic - no having to check this is off when that is on, etc.