Elddis CV20 Loaded Front and Rear Axle Weight

[Laughing Gravy]

Just wondered if anybody has an Elddis CV20 Panel van conversion and if so have you weighed the front and rear axle after picking it up from the dealer ( before you add your payload) ? Whether it is a dealer special would be useful information too

In fact if you haven’t got the bare weight, then with your payload would be handy info too.

Elddis will tell me the maximum weight I can have on both axles but they won’t tell me what is the weight on the axles on exit from their factory

I guess that’s because there can be a few variations to the standard model

 

[Minxy]

Hi LG, welcome to the fun house!

Unfortunately the weight quoted for payload/unladen weight by manufactures can be extremely unreliable, up to 5% variation which can be a LOT of lost payload. The only sure way is to insist that the one you are interested in, in the trim you require, is weighed properly by a dealer, both front and rear axles separately, and informing you of what fuel etc was on board at the time.

 

[Blue Knight]

From the brochure - CV20:

1. MTPLM: 3,500kg.
2. MIRO: 2,835kg.
3. Payload: 665kg

From the looks of it the brochure is indicating that the MIRO does not include any driver, water, gas or extra equipment so this brochure figures quoted will be for the most basic spec'd van possible.

4. If you then add a driver and a passenger: 150kg, (adjust accordingly).
5. Full water @ 90kg.
6. Awning: 45kg.
7. Solar, TV and aerial: 20kg.
8. Twin Gas: 45kg
9. Extra hab battery: 25kg
10. Drivers packs and essentials: 35kg
11. 2% in material variations: 57kg.

.........then by my reckoning your available payload will be c.198kg for your gear, food, bikes and racks, tow bars, drinks, crockery, toothbrush etc.

I've included a second hab battery in the list above because the CV20 comes with a compressor fridge and from experience you'll need that extra bank of juice.

However, once the water is onboard and you're fully loaded then by my reckoning your axle will be close to its limit so bikes, racks and tow bars will be a no-go without mods to the suspension and tyres etc.

I'm sorry if it's not precise but every bit helps eh.

All the best,

Andrew

The footnotes from Elddis are as follows:

Note 1: The Mass In Running Order (MIRO ) - Weight of the caravan equipped to the manufacturer's standard specification including essential habitational equipment.
Note 2: Maximum User Payload includes the Personal Effects payload, conventional load and the Optional Equipment Payload.
Note 3: Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass (MTPLM) - The technical maximum permissible laden weight of the Campervan.
Note 4: Please take care to ensure that you have allowed for the masses of all items you intend to carry in the Campervan.
Note 5: All data is calculated using metric weights and measurements. The imperial figures quoted are conversions thereof. All dimensions have a tolerance of +/- 25mm
Note 6: Your Campervan weights have been calculated with all water tanks empty and you are recommend to travel with all water tanks empty
Note 7: WARNING : Under no circumstances should the plated MTPLM of the Campervan be exceeded
Note 8: Heights are measured on an unladen vehicle with the aerial in the lowest position
Note 9: Standard Steel wheels on Fiat-based models are 15". Alloy wheels and wheels on Automatic-option models are 16"

 

[Lenny HB]

From the brochure - CV20:

1. MTPLM: 3,500kg.
2. MIRO: 2,835kg.
3. Payload: 665kg

From the looks of it the brochure is indicating that the MIRO does not include any driver, water, gas or extra equipment so this brochure figures quoted will be for the most basic spec'd van possible.

4. If you then add a driver and a passenger: 150kg, (adjust accordingly).
5. Full water @ 90kg.
6. Awning: 45kg.
7. Solar, TV and aerial: 20kg.
8. Twin Gas: 45kg
9. Extra hab battery: 25kg
10. Drivers packs and essentials: 35kg
11. 2% in material variations: 57kg.

.........then by my reckoning your available payload will be c.198kg for your gear, food, bikes and racks, tow bars, drinks, crockery, toothbrush etc.

I've included a second hab battery in the list above because the CV20 comes with a compressor fridge and from experience you'll need that extra bank of juice.

However, once the water is onboard and you're fully loaded then by my reckoning your axle will be close to its limit so bikes, racks and tow bars will be a no-go without mods to the suspension and tyres etc.

I'm sorry if it's not precise but every bit helps eh.

All the best,

Andrew

The footnotes from Elddis are as follows:

Note 1: The Mass In Running Order (MIRO ) - Weight of the caravan equipped to the manufacturer's standard specification including essential habitational equipment.
Note 2: Maximum User Payload includes the Personal Effects payload, conventional load and the Optional Equipment Payload.
Note 3: Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass (MTPLM) - The technical maximum permissible laden weight of the Campervan.
Note 4: Please take care to ensure that you have allowed for the masses of all items you intend to carry in the Campervan.
Note 5: All data is calculated using metric weights and measurements. The imperial figures quoted are conversions thereof. All dimensions have a tolerance of +/- 25mm
Note 6: Your Campervan weights have been calculated with all water tanks empty and you are recommend to travel with all water tanks empty
Note 7: WARNING : Under no circumstances should the plated MTPLM of the Campervan be exceeded
Note 8: Heights are measured on an unladen vehicle with the aerial in the lowest position
Note 9: Standard Steel wheels on Fiat-based models are 15". Alloy wheels and wheels on Automatic-option models are 16"

Put like that makes it unfit for purpose.

 

[Laughing Gravy]

Thanks for your responses

What I am after is the weight of the rear axle and the weight of the front axle as it is delivered by Elddis and straight from the factory

Foe some reason they don’t give or publish that information and I guess expect the customer to go to the weighbridge and weight the rear and front axle themselves

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[Lenny HB]

I've never seen any converter give actual axle weights, only thing you can do is ask a dealer to weigh one for you.

 

[Laughing Gravy]

Yeah Lenny

I guess you are right

Or maybe someone on here could help

 

[Blue Knight]

Put like that makes it unfit for purpose.

Following on from our Shetland & Highland trips last year I would say that a huge number of PVCs (light chassis) were overweight.

 

[Lenny HB]

Following on from our Shetland & Highland trips last year I would say that a huge number of PVCs (light chassis) were overweight.

People often fail to realise due to the heavier bodywork PVC's often have less payload than CB vans.

 

[Blue Knight]

Yeah Lenny

I guess you are right

Or maybe someone on here could help

I've just done a forum search and these guys may be able to help you (if they log on):

1. G30rge He sold his 2019 model a month ago.

2. MickHW Not logged on for a while and seems to have ran out of free posts.

3. David Ruby He has one.

4. paulj He has one.

The alternative is to give Elddis a call and see what they have to say.

Good luck,

Andrew

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[PeteH]

Until the Buying Public start voting with their Cheque books (does anyone use cheques to-day?). The Flagrant under assessments of payload by manufacturers will continue.

 

[Laughing Gravy]

Thanks for your responses everyone especially Blue Night

I am fairly new to motorhoming (VW Kampas in the past) but reading other threads it does seem that the subject of payload has been neglected by both dealers and makers in the past and probably still is , due also possibility to inertia from the authorities

 

[Lenny HB]

Thanks for your responses everyone especially Blue Night

I am fairly new to motorhoming (VW Kampas in the past) but reading other threads it does seem that the subject of payload has been neglected by both dealers and makers in the past and probably still is , due also possibility to inertia from the authorities

What bugs me is well respected manufacturers like Carthago turn out vans that are constantly 130kg over brochure weight. OK its within the 5% but nearly every van is within a couple of kg of 130 kg over so they can turn out consistent weight vans. So obviously doing it to give an artificial payload.

By constrast we have had 3 Hymers that have been within a few kg of the brochure weight.

 

[Blue Knight]

Thanks for your responses everyone especially Blue Night

I am fairly new to motorhoming (VW Kampas in the past) but reading other threads it does seem that the subject of payload has been neglected by both dealers and makers in the past and probably still is , due also possibility to inertia from the authorities

The whole payload issue is terrible IMO and you do right sir to investigate it further.

If you use my PVC as an example. My MIRO is 3,000kg but once we're fully loaded with full twin gas, full water and fuel, three hab batteries, big dog, extra water and all of our gear then we soon hit 3,850kg........and we've not got tow bars, bikes racks etc fitted.

I have a 2,400kg rear axle on airtop but, even so, I still need to keep an eye on things in terms of load distribution and its related safety issues. (BTW, we are registered at 4,500kg on the Fiat maxi chassis).

We spent a few months up in Scotland last year and the number of lightweight PVC vans with scooters on the rear was unbelievably high. Most looked like a speedboat zooming along in the water with its bow up in the air.

IMO you can't go wrong with a heavy chassis as long as you have the C1 license to support it.

In the meantime I do hope that a CV owner comes along with the data you need.

All the best,

Andrew

 

[Laughing Gravy]

Thanks Andrew

My aim was to carry a Honda Mode 125cc116kg scooter on the back of the Ducato but from what people seem to be saying it looks like I may have to put it on a trailer rather than a rack. Which then poses the question whether I should go for the Honda 300cc scooter @169kg on a trailer if it can carry more weight. Each has to be looked at on a case by case basis.

I don’t think I would know for sure until I collect the van and I weigh it

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[CazPaul]

The problem with buying, collecting then weighing is that if its bad news you can't reverse your decision

 

[Minxy]

The problem with buying, collecting then weighing is that if its bad news you can't reverse your decision

Indeed, the only sure way is to have it on the paperwork that it MUST be weighed by the dealer prior to collection (and payment of remaining funds) to ensure it has X amount of capacity on each axle ... otherwise full refund of deposit.

 

[Eggs]

Thanks Andrew

My aim was to carry a Honda Mode 125cc116kg scooter on the back of the Ducato but from what people seem to be saying it looks like I may have to put it on a trailer rather than a rack. Which then poses the question whether I should go for the Honda 300cc scooter @169kg on a trailer if it can carry more weight. Each has to be looked at on a case by case basis.

I don’t think I would know for sure until I collect the van and I weigh it

I was on the CCC at Heartford a couple of years ago (working in North London), there was a PVC towing a scooter like it was on an A frame, front wheel in a clamp on the tow bar. Rear wheel on the road. The fella who owned it had a couple of cameras with built in microphones so he would hear if the scooter got a rear wheel blow out.

 

[Blue Knight]

Thanks Andrew

My aim was to carry a Honda Mode 125cc116kg scooter on the back of the Ducato but from what people seem to be saying it looks like I may have to put it on a trailer rather than a rack. Which then poses the question whether I should go for the Honda 300cc scooter @169kg on a trailer if it can carry more weight. Each has to be looked at on a case by case basis.

I don’t think I would know for sure until I collect the van and I weigh it

This is a difficult one for you.

In our case we wanted a PVC for its self-contained mobility so strictly 'no trailers' or else we would have had a right crappy time in the islands last year; i.e. we wanted a PVC to go places where normal white boxes would struggle so having a trailer with a bike would have totally defeated our type of camping style.

Me personally, I would opt for the 4,500kg maxi chassis so that you can remain 'self contained' by having the bike and the heavy tow bar system on the back in relative safety.

I'm just taking a guess here but if you want to do proper off grid camping, as opposed to just staying on sites, then your CV20 rear axle will be close to 300kg over its margin. (Don't forget to add the 80kg for the tow bar and bike support system, plus the cantilever effect on the rear axle too).

As others have said I would ask the dealer for the actual specs before parting with your hard earned cash.

All the best,

Andrew

 

[Laughing Gravy]

Bike Knight

Rear axle overweight @ 300kg is a lot tbh , as Elddis suggested user payload is 650kg approx

not sure that it would be that high but I don’t know at this stage of the process

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[Blue Knight]

Bike Knight

Rear axle overweight @ 300kg is a lot tbh , as Elddis suggested user payload is 650kg approx

not sure that it would be that high but I don’t know at this stage of the process

Yep, I see how those figures may appear at first but you'll be placing a further 200+kg beyond the rear axle, and by a fair stretch too (due to the bike extension arms) so the fulcrum effect will add even more mass to the 200kg figure and all this on a light chassis van.

What I would do first is try and establish what your rear axle can be extended to; i.e. can it achieve 2,240kg from the standard 2,000kg tolerance with the addition of airtop suspension and an upgrade on your tyre specs.

Once you know this little gem of info then you may be able to work backwards.

That said, you have never stipulated what style of camping you want to participate in so if it's just a case of staying on sites and eating take-outs from the local chippy (as some caravaner-types do) then that will give you an immediate gain-back on your payload etc.

Also, don't get confused with the available payload figure of your van (the ones in the glossy sales brochure) against the axle tolerance of the chassis as you'll only get the maximum payload possible if you can spread the load - and stacking heavy scooters and scaffolding on the back is not good for effective weight distribution on the axles.

All the best,

Andrew

 

[Laughing Gravy]

Excellent advice Blue Knight

thank you

 

[Waveski]

I have a Vantage Med PVC; it is 5.4 m long on the Fiat medium wheelbase. The Ellis Is 5:9 metres on the Fiat long wheelbase, but you may find my actual weigh bridge numbers useful.
Fully loaded on the weigh bridge it was measured at 3150kgs, this include driver, full water, diesel and underslung gas tank . I travel solo and the weight included my bedding, clothes and food Also included was a folding bike inside, a rear rack and 13kg Waveski (as per my avatar), two folding chairs, small BBQ and all the usual hoses, tools etc. My van has twin batteries and an awning. I still have 350kgs of spare payload and no problems regarding axle loads.
Hopefully someone with an Elldis will be along soon with some more appropriate numbers.

 

[Blue Knight]

I have a Vantage Med PVC; it is 5.4 m long on the Fiat medium wheelbase. The Ellis Is 5:9 metres on the Fiat long wheelbase, but you may find my actual weigh bridge numbers useful.
Fully loaded on the weigh bridge it was measured at 3150kgs, this include driver, full water, diesel and underslung gas tank . I travel solo and the weight included my bedding, clothes and food Also included was a folding bike inside, a rear rack and 13kg Waveski (as per my avatar), two folding chairs, small BBQ and all the usual hoses, tools etc. My van has twin batteries and an awning. I still have 350kgs of spare payload and no problems regarding axle loads.
Hopefully someone with an Elldis will be along soon with some more appropriate numbers.

Good post but as you say only a CV20 owner with the same challenges can really underpin the actual figures but, at least you and I are trying to help in some way.

That said, if I take your figures for the Vantage Med 5.4m and add some flesh to them and then compare it to a 5.99m Vantage, similiar size to a CV20.

The extra length of Vantage 5.99m vans (all three from the range) reduces the payload as follows:

1. Size upgrade to 5.99m: 100kg.
2. Bigger awning: 10kg.
3. 20l of extra water to 90l capacity (same as the CV20): 20kg.
4. 1 x average sized passenger: 75kg.
5. Extra gear for passenger: 60kg.
6. Reinforced towbar and scooter rack: 80kg.
7. Scooter: 116kg.

....so your 5.4m van example in 5.99m guise but with 2 people and a scooter goes from 3,150kg to 3,611kg and this does not take into account a circa 50kg extra mass on the rear axle due to the cantilever effect.

I do hope that a CV20 owner comes along soon.

All the best,

Andrew

 

[Laughing Gravy]

Thanks Andrew. The above figures actually gives me some hope that is all doable

Watch this space !

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[Laughing Gravy]

And thanks Waveski !

 

[Waveski]

A little more detail on the 3150kgs that I quoted; that included a fitted towbar, solar panel and 5kg drinking water container. You could also save some weight by going for electric bikes rather than a scooter, bikes can be used on cycle tracks and paths!!
Also playing with my numbers; my Waveski equipment and rack come out at about 20kgs.
Another source of weight saving would be to fabricate a light sun awning, possibly temporary attaching to the van using magnetic clamps; I only use my wind out awning in sunny climes, hardly ever in the UK and they are heavy
It all depends on the weight your van comes out of the factory.
Good luck and have fun.

 

[Blue Knight]

Thanks Andrew. The above figures actually gives me some hope that is all doable

Watch this space !

I hope it works out well for you and I'm sorry I could not be more precise.

Still, one of the CV20 boys may come along soon.

All the best, and good luck,

Andrew

 

[G30rge]

from the 2020 range Ducato Brochure

 

[Laughing Gravy]

Thanks George, useful information in that the maximum front and rear axle load is 1850 and 2000 and my supplier have confirmed that

However what Elddis can’t (or won’t) confirm is the actual front and rear axle weight once the conversion has been completed including any add-one like solar panel and rear camera etc etc

I just wondered if you had been down the weighbridge with the van ?

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