EBL 119 not charging from alternator

[Lee Sunlight]

Hi all, i have a small issue with our Sunlight T69L when driving leisure batteries are not being charged. When on ehu charger works great and charges batteries, fridge works ok on 12v when driving also. Checked all fuses visually checked wiring etc have 14.5v at D+ input when engine is running. Am i missing something ie internal fuse etc or is the EBL 119 at fault ? Any advice greatly received.
Many thanks Lee

 

[Pausim]

Have you checked the big fuse on the engine battery (usually 50A), this is the one that connects this battery to the EBL.

 

[Lee Sunlight]

Have you checked the big fuse on the engine battery (usually 50A), this is the one that connects this battery to the EBL.

Hi, yes all fuses are ok including ones from starter battery to EBL and under drivers seat to leisure batteries.

 

[Lenny HB]

The 50 amp fuse is the leisure battery charging, there will be a 20 amp fuse next to it that feeds the fridge, failing that it could be the relay inside the EB

 

[Lenny HB]

When I read the post eairler I was thinking the fridge wasn't working probably because I'm parked up at the Retro and already started on the beer.

Three fat wires go into the back of the EBL, negative leisure battery & starter battery. Check you have 12v on them.
Also there will be another big fuse probably 50 amp next to the leisure battery.But if that one is dead all the 12v will be.

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[Lee Sunlight]

When I read the post eairler I was thinking the fridge wasn't working probably because I'm parked up at the Retro and already started on the beer.

Three fat wires go into the back of the EBL, negative leisure battery & starter battery. Check you have 12v on them.
Also there will be another big fuse probably 50 amp next to the leisure battery.But if that one is dead all the 12v will be.

Must admit it is driving me to drink. Yes have checked the wires on back of ebl and all have 12v

 

[Lenny HB]

If everything else is working worth having a look in the EBL. I think the relay is PCB mounted but a lot of the connectors on ¼" push on's maybe a connection has dropped of.

 

[Lee Sunlight]

If everything else is working worth having a look in the EBL. I think the relay is PCB mounted but a lot of the connectors on ¼" push on's maybe a connection has dropped of.

Thanks, last resort is to take ebl out and maybe have a look or send it off for checking probably be an end of year job though.

 

[Pausim]

Would fitting a B2B and bypassing the EBL be cheaper than getting the EBL fixed? Perhaps just fitting a D+ activated external relay as a bypass would be another solution.

 

[autorouter]

Three fat wires go into the back of the EBL, negative leisure battery & starter battery. Check you have 12v on them.

If you can get at them, that is a good place to start. You can do further testing. The starter battery voltage at the EBL should match the starter battery voltage at the battery terminals. Also the leisure battery voltage at the EBL should match the leisure battery voltage at the battery terminals. They will probably be slightly different.

When the engine starts, the relay will connect them both together, and the two voltages should become equal. If they stay different, then the relay isn't working.

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[Guigsy]

Is it just the fridge that's eating all the power? A fridge takes about 15a when on 12v. A modern van with a smart alternator might only average that output, so the hab battery doesn't appear to change.

Or does the same happen when the fridge is off? No rise in hab voltage when the engine is running?

 

[Pausim]

Is it just the fridge that's eating all the power? A fridge takes about 15a when on 12v. A modern van with a smart alternator might only average that output, so the hab battery doesn't appear to change.

Or does the same happen when the fridge is off? No rise in hab voltage when the engine is running?

If it has a smarter alternator it should already have a B2B or battery booster and this raises other areas that would need investigating.

 

[Guigsy]

If it has a smarter alternator it should already have a B2B or battery booster and this raises other areas that would need investigating.

There are quite a few MH manufacturers that failed to install a B2B when the vans went to smart alternators. Sometimes meaning so little charge was provided, the fridge draw flattened the hab battery by the time they arrived at their destination.

 

[Pausim]

There are quite a few MH manufacturers that failed to install a B2B when the vans went to smart alternators. Sometimes meaning so little charge was provided, the fridge draw flattened the hab battery by the time they arrived at their destination.

Yes the old split charge arrangement doesn’t work at all with smart alternators. I think most Continental manufacturers were up to speed on that.

 

[Lee Sunlight]

If you can get at them, that is a good place to start. You can do further testing. The starter battery voltage at the EBL should match the starter battery voltage at the battery terminals. Also the leisure battery voltage at the EBL should match the leisure battery voltage at the battery terminals. They will probably be slightly different.

When the engine starts, the relay will connect them both together, and the two voltages should become equal. If they stay different, then the relay isn't working.

Thanks sounds like the relay then as they dont equal when engine is running only the starter battery raises to 14.5v

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[Lee Sunlight]

Is it just the fridge that's eating all the power? A fridge takes about 15a when on 12v. A modern van with a smart alternator might only average that output, so the hab battery doesn't appear to change.

Or does the same happen when the fridge is off? No rise in hab voltage when the engine is running?

Thanks, there is no rise in voltage when the fridge is off so definitely not charging. When fridge is on just drains more power from leisure batteries when driving till low voltage cut out kicks in.

 

[Lee Sunlight]

Would fitting a B2B and bypassing the EBL be cheaper than getting the EBL fixed? Perhaps just fitting a D+ activated external relay as a bypass would be another solution.

Been quoted £150 for repair but will have to wait till end of year as holidays already booked in

 

[Pausim]

Been quoted £150 for repair but will have to wait till end of year as holidays already booked in

I would buy a normally open relay as a temporary measure, that could be wired outside the EBL. It might be worth double checking the EBL fuse that activates the relay, they sometimes look ok but have a bad contact on the blade.

 

[autorouter]

Thanks, there is no rise in voltage when the fridge is off so definitely not charging. When fridge is on just drains more power from leisure batteries when driving till low voltage cut out kicks in.

That doesn't sound right, that wouldn't happen if it was just the split charge relay that failed. Maybe there's a problem with the D+ signal somewhere.

There is a fuse labelled 'Kompr/AES Kuhlschrank' (Kuhlschrank = fridge) that allows the fridge to run from the leisure battery when the engine is not running, if it is switched manually to 12V. Does the fridge still work from 12V with this fuse removed? It should make no difference to the connection via the starter battery/alternator.

With that fuse removed, if the fridge doesn't work when the engine is running, then the fridge relay isn't working in addition to the split charge relay. So it's unlikely both will fail at the same time, more likely the D+ signal that switches them both on and off is not getting through.

 

[Lee Sunlight]

That doesn't sound right, that wouldn't happen if it was just the split charge relay that failed. Maybe there's a problem with the D+ signal somewhere.

There is a fuse labelled 'Kompr/AES Kuhlschrank' (Kuhlschrank = fridge) that allows the fridge to run from the leisure battery when the engine is not running, if it is switched manually to 12V. Does the fridge still work from 12V with this fuse removed? It should make no difference to the connection via the starter battery/alternator.

With that fuse removed, if the fridge doesn't work when the engine is running, then the fridge relay isn't working in addition to the split charge relay. So it's unlikely both will fail at the same time, more likely the D+ signal that switches them both on and off is not getting through.

When the fuse is removed and engine running the fridge switches from battery to gas on auto. D+ input signal has 14v at ebl plug when engine running

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[autorouter]

When the fuse is removed and engine running the fridge switches from battery to gas on auto. D+ input signal has 14v at ebl plug when engine running

That means the fridge relay inside the EBL isn't switching, because you said you've checked the 50A and 20A fuses next to the starter battery. And the 2A fuse for the D+ which is right next to them.

Looking at the 4-way connector on the front of the EBL (Block 1), both pins 1 and 4 should go high (about 12V to 14V) when the engine is running, and back to about zero when the engine is stopped.

There are two fridge relays inside the EBL119, coming out at those two pins. It seems very unlikely that both those two relays and also the split charge relay will all fail. More likely that the D+ that switches them on and off isn't getting to them.

The D+ signal come into the EBL on Pin3 of the 5-way connector (Block 2). It goes out to the fridge control board on Pin2 of the 4-way connector. Is the D+ present at Pin2 of the 4-way?

 

[Lee Sunlight]

That means the fridge relay inside the EBL isn't switching, because you said you've checked the 50A and 20A fuses next to the starter battery. And the 2A fuse for the D+ which is right next to them.

Looking at the 4-way connector on the front of the EBL (Block 1), both pins 1 and 4 should go high (about 12V to 14V) when the engine is running, and back to about zero when the engine is stopped.

There are two fridge relays inside the EBL119, coming out at those two pins. It seems very unlikely that both those two relays and also the split charge relay will all fail. More likely that the D+ that switches them on and off isn't getting to them.

The D+ signal come into the EBL on Pin3 of the 5-way connector (Block 2). It goes out to the fridge control board on Pin2 of the 4-way connector. Is the D+ present at Pin2 of the 4-way?

Getting more confused, block 1 pin 4 always has 13.8v (same as leisure battery) pin 2 has 14v when engine running nothing on pin 1 or 3
On block 2 yes pin 2 has 14v

 

[Lee Sunlight]

Getting more confused, block 1 pin 4 always has 13.8v (same as leisure battery) pin 2 has 14v when engine running nothing on pin 1 or 3
On block 2 yes pin 2 has 14v

By the way I have 2 relays mounted behind the ebl pic attached. Both seam ok.

 

[autorouter]

Getting more confused, block 1 pin 4 always has 13.8v (same as leisure battery)

What voltage is it when that fuse (Kompr/AES Kuhlschrank) is removed? If it's the same as Pin4 then the two relays are not working. Looking at the diagram of the EBL119, it looks like there is an internal wiring fault. Inside the EBL there is a wire that links Pin3 of the 5-way to Pin2 of the 4-way. From that link there is a diode that sends the signal to the three relays. If that diode has failed, or there's some other wiring problem, then the D+ signal won't get from the pins to the relays.

 

[autorouter]

What voltage is it when that fuse (Kompr/AES Kuhlschrank) is removed? If it's the same as Pin4 then the two relays are not working.

Sorry I was getting confused too. What I meant to say was, what is the voltage on Block 1 Pin4 with the fuse removed? If it's the same as the voltage on Block 1 Pin1, and they are both zero, then both of the fridge relays are not working.

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[Lee Sunlight]

Sorry I was getting confused too. What I meant to say was, what is the voltage on Block 1 Pin4 with the fuse removed? If it's the same as the voltage on Block 1 Pin1, and they are both zero, then both of the fridge relays are not working.

Block 1 pin 1 is 0 with or without fuse
Block 1 pin 4 is 13.5 with fuse 0 without fuse
Think I will have to send ebl in for repair at end of season

 

[autorouter]

So, you're getting D+ Input on Block 2 Pin 3, and D+ output on Block 1 Pin 2. But with the fridge fuse removed, you're getting zero on Block 1 Pins 1 and 4, when the engine is running.

The internal link between the D+ pins is working OK, but the D+ is not reaching the two fridge relays and the split charge relay, so they are not switching.

If you can't get it repaired for a while, then Pausim's suggestion is a possible workaround. Wire a Normally Open relay between the two thick positive wires at the back of the EBL, triggered by the D+ on Block 2 Pin 3, that would work as a temporary split charge relay. Try to find a fairly beefy relay, many of them only do about 25A, and you need a 40A one at least.

If you got that going, then another temporary fix would be to put back the Komp/AES Kuhlschrank fuse and switch the fridge manually to 12V. You'd have to be careful to only switch it on when the engine was running, and off when the engine stops, otherwise it would be running the leisure battery down.

 

[pastrana]

Hello,
I am running into the same problems described in this post, but I do not find an explanation of what it is happening in my van.
I have recently bought a second hand RoadCar 540 from 2018. It has the famous EBL 119 and solar charger.

The leisure battery is not charging while the engine is on. It is always 12.4v and I do not see any difference when the engine is on or off.

I have check the D+ Signal on Block 2 pin3, and it is always 0v.
I have check pin 1 Block 2, from off to on. And I can see 14.4v when the engine is on. Therefore, the fridge relay seems to be working. And I do not know why, if the D+ signal is always 0v. Of course, the fridge was working while the engine is on.

I have checked all the fuses that I found, and all of them looks fine. Except 2A fuse which is connected to Block2 pin3. That one I did not find it and I am not sure if it even exits.

I have tried to connected whole system to 220v, and everything looks normal. I have 14.4v on leisure battery.

I have tied to find D+ signal on motor side, but I did not find it. All the fuses in motor side looks fine too.

I do not know what I a missing here. Any ideas?

Thanks!

 

[Lenny HB]

Hello,
I am running into the same problems described in this post, but I do not find an explanation of what it is happening in my van.
I have recently bought a second hand RoadCar 540 from 2018. It has the famous EBL 119 and solar charger.

The leisure battery is not charging while the engine is on. It is always 12.4v and I do not see any difference when the engine is on or off.

I have check the D+ Signal on Block 2 pin3, and it is always 0v.
I have check pin 1 Block 2, from off to on. And I can see 14.4v when the engine is on. Therefore, the fridge relay seems to be working. And I do not know why, if the D+ signal is always 0v. Of course, the fridge was working while the engine is on.

I have checked all the fuses that I found, and all of them looks fine. Except 2A fuse which is connected to Block2 pin3. That one I did not find it and I am not sure if it even exits.

I have tried to connected whole system to 220v, and everything looks normal. I have 14.4v on leisure battery.

I have tied to find D+ signal on motor side, but I did not find it. All the fuses in motor side looks fine too.

I do not know what I a missing here. Any ideas?

Thanks!

It sounds like you have a Smart Alternator but do not have a B2B.

 

[autorouter]

I have check pin 1 Block 2, from off to on. And I can see 14.4v when the engine is on. Therefore, the fridge relay seems to be working. And I do not know why, if the D+ signal is always 0v. Of course, the fridge was working while the engine is on.

Block 2 is the inputs to the EBL, from the D+, starter battery pos and neg, and leisure battery sensor wires. Getting 14.4V there doesn't mean that the fridge is working.

The output of the EBL to the fridge is on Block1. The D+ is Pin2, and the 12V output power to the fridge is either Pin 1 or Pin4, depending on which of the two fridge relays the installer decided to use.

Of course if the D+ coming in on Block2 is zero, the output on Block1 will be zero too. There should be a set of three fuses near the starter battery, with a big 50A fuse for the split charge relay, a 20A fuse for the 12V fridge element power supply, and a 2A fuse for the D+ signal. Have you found the 50A and 20A fuses?

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