Drop in lithium

[iandsm]

I am thinking about a 120 ah drop in lithium from KS energy. I know there have been several threads about lithium but I was wondering if what is claimed is true that these batteries can simply be dropped in to replace lead acid with no other modifications like uprated fuses, B to B etc. I have an Autosleeper Warwick XL which has the Sergeant EC400 system. I would love to hear from anyone who has just simply dropped on in and without modifying anything. It seems the factory fitted battery charger's profile will be fine for the lithium so I am hopeful. It's not that I do not believe what KS Energy claim but Hearing form someone who has actually dome the deed, at out were would boost my confidence.

 

[Roger S]

We have a Sargeant EC600 in our Swift and that just dropped in. We bought our battery from Fogstar and I sent them the details ( ie Sargeant EC600 is all ) and they were able to confirm no adjustments were needed.

 

[Folkranger]

I'm fairly sure you'll hear from people who know more than me that Lithium needs a lithium speciffic charging and management system.

 

[Tombola]

Yes you can drop them in with the EC400 as it has 25a charge (if not powering other appliances) and 3 stages. SO the already fitted fuses from the 25 amp charger should be good on the pre exisiting cables.

B2B, ? well ideally yes, but if you have a good quality and amperage alternator/cabling it may be sufficient, but b2b is always a good idea to control the charge taken.

Im not sure if the EC400 has MPPT connection for the solar

I Have the blutooth versions from KS energy and am quite happy with them, the blutooth show whats going in and whats going out quite well so no need for the BMV.

 

[iandsm]

We have a Sargeant EC600 in our Swift and that just dropped in. We bought our battery from Fogstar and I sent them the details ( ie Sargeant EC600 is all ) and they were able to confirm no adjustments were needed.

Thank you.

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[iandsm]

Yes you can drop them in with the EC400 as it has 25a charge (if not powering other appliances) and 3 stages. SO the already fitted fuses from the 25 amp charger should be good on the pre exisiting cables.

B2B, ? well ideally yes, but if you have a good quality and amperage alternator/cabling it may be sufficient, but b2b is always a good idea to control the charge taken.

Im not sure if the EC400 has MPPT connection for the solar

I Have the blutooth versions from KS energy and am quite happy with them, the blutooth show whats going in and whats going out quite well so no need for the BMV.

Thanks most helpful

 

[Lenny HB]

Although they just drop you will never get the best in performance or life out of them. If you spending that much on the batteries we'll worth spend g a bit more to get the best out of them.

If you don't have a B2B just the standard split charge relay, with undersized wiring in a Brit van you will never get much of a charge into the battery. Also far better to have a solar regulator with the correct lithium profile. If you hardly ever use EHU you could get away with the exsisting mains charger but if you use EHU it would be best to replace it.

 

[iandsm]

Although they just drop you will never get the best in performance or life out of them. If you spending that much on the batteries we'll worth spend g a bit more to get the best out of them.

If you don't have a B2B just the standard split charge relay, with undersized wiring in a Brit van you will never get much of a charge into the battery. Also far better to have a solar regulator with the correct lithium profile. If you hardly ever use EHU you could get away with the exsisting mains charger but if you use EHU it would be best to replace it.

Thanks for that. The guy at KS energy claims a charger putting out 14.4 is fine and so is the split relay charging from the alternator and that a BToB is not necessary. He is of course the one doing the selling whereas your thoughts are independent. Can you say a little more about why you don’t think he existing wiring will not do the job and why I need a BToB please

 

[Rogerwyn]

Thanks for that. The guy at KS energy claims a charger putting out 14.4 is fine and so is the split relay charging from the alternator and that a BToB is not necessary. He is of course the one doing the selling whereas your thoughts are independent. Can you say a little more about why you don’t think he existing wiring will not do the job and why I need a BToB please

Fitted a KS 200amp seat battery a year ago, not had any problems, have just fitted a b2b due to solar being useless this time of year.

 

[jongood]

Thanks for that. The guy at KS energy claims a charger putting out 14.4 is fine and so is the split relay charging from the alternator and that a BToB is not necessary. He is of course the one doing the selling whereas your thoughts are independent. Can you say a little more about why you don’t think he existing wiring will not do the job and why I need a BToB please

Following an earlier thread on here I'm using a 200ah LifePo4 in paralell with a 220ah Gel, what is known as a hybrid setup. Its early days yet and due to the time of year and other commitments I havent had much chance to test it but it seems to be working OK; In particular I'm able to use my 230v appliances more because the battery voltage is holding up for longer under mains loads.

I deliberately havent fitted a B2B because I didnt want to bring my 24v Chassis batteries into the equation ( I have a separate 12v alternator) The downside from this approach is that I seem to only to be getting 30a charging from the alternator rather than 40a but I can live with that. The other complication I'm having is that my Votronic shunt is struggling to identify the state of charge, usually overstating it although the LIFE battery has its own app so I can get the information to complete the picture.

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[lorger]

We bought the exact same battery in July and so far really happy with it, we have a different charger and 180w solar. On our trip to France in September it worked brilliant, we fitted a 3kw inverter so OH can use hairdryer (1200w) and we can charge EBike. When not on hook up we easily used hairdryer for 5 minutes and topped up both bikes, by the time late afternoon had came the battery was full.

 

[Tombola]

Thanks for that. The guy at KS energy claims a charger putting out 14.4 is fine and so is the split relay charging from the alternator and that a BToB is not necessary. He is of course the one doing the selling whereas your thoughts are independent. Can you say a little more about why you don’t think he existing wiring will not do the job and why I need a BToB please

Yes putting out 14.4 is ok, the lithium will probably cut out at less than 100% as it wont get the last stage of charge, but this is ok as lithium dont realy want charging to 100% all the time anyway. But in your case your EC400 is a 3 stage anyway so no worries.

what Lenny means (pardon me for butting in) is brit vans tend to use thin wiring , as I discovered in my autotrail when fitting my first lithiums a few years ago. They wont carry the required current to charge the Lithiums fast enough even if the alternator is specced up.
Is wise to pay a bit more and fit b2b direct from the cab battery to the leisure battery yourself if possible and is easy enough depending on which van.

OF course you can try first without and check if suitable, wont harm for a while

 

[iandsm]

Yes putting out 14.4 is ok, the lithium will probably cut out at less than 100% as it wont get the last stage of charge, but this is ok as lithium dont realy want charging to 100% all the time anyway. But in your case your EC400 is a 3 stage anyway so no worries.

what Lenny means (pardon me for butting in) is brit vans tend to use thin wiring , as I discovered in my autotrail when fitting my first lithiums a few years ago. They wont carry the required current to charge the Lithiums fast enough even if the alternator is specced up.
Is wise to pay a bit more and fit b2b direct from the cab battery to the leisure battery yourself if possible and is easy enough depending on which van.

OF course you can try first without and check if suitable, wont harm for a while

Thank you

 

[Tombola]

Thank you

dont forget the funster discount if you do buy,

EDIT:this is the app info on the blutooth version

 

[iandsm]

dont forget the funster discount if you do buy

Yes, thanks of the render

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[Lenny HB]

Thanks for that. The guy at KS energy claims a charger putting out 14.4 is fine and so is the split relay charging from the alternator and that a BToB is not necessary. He is of course the one doing the selling whereas your thoughts are independent. Can you say a little more about why you don’t think he existing wiring will not do the job and why I need a BToB please

The wiring to the split charge relay in a typical Brit built van is in the region of 4 to 6mm sq in my Hymer it is 16 mm sq. In the Hymer, if the batteries are a bit low the charge rate will start at around 25 amp, in a Brit van it will be 10 to 15 amps if you are lucky.
You could increase the size of the wiring but with Lithiums being able to take very high charging currents you do risk overloading the alternator also when the battery is charged the alternator voltage will still be present. Also the voltage output of the alternator will vary depending on the load and you would be relying on the battery's BMS to prevent any damage. A BMS should always be seen as a last resort.
Fitting a B2B with give the correct charging voltage to the battery and turn off when the battery is charged, it will also limit the current taken from the alternator providing it is suitably sized for the alternator.

 

[iandsm]

The wiring to the split charge relay in a typical Brit built van is in the region of 4 to 6mm sq in my Hymer it is 16 mm sq. In the Hymer, if the batteries are a bit low the charge rate will start at around 25 amp, in a Brit van it will be 10 to 15 amps if you are lucky.
You could increase the size of the wiring but with Lithiums being able to take very high charging currents you do risk overloading the alternator also when the battery is charged the alternator voltage will still be present. Also the voltage output of the alternator will vary depending on the load and you would be relying on the battery's BMS to prevent any damage. A BMS should always be seen as a last resort.
Fitting a B2B with give the correct charging voltage to the battery and turn off when the battery is charged, it will also limit the current taken from the alternator providing it is suitably sized for the alternator.

Thanks for that.

 

[iandsm]

My sincere thanks to everyone who has takebmb the time and contributed to this thread and lifted the veil of my ignorance. It’s really appreciated. I am able to make a uniformed decision whereas previously I was shooting in the dark. Happy new year.

 

[The Artilleryman]

I've fitted the same battery.

I've fitted a Victron mppt solar controller (the Truma pwm was pathetic).

I will fit :- B2B, Ablemail (battery maintainer), Victron IP22 charger & BMV.

My reasons are that we only use the MH for steam rally's and as such usually only a 1 - 2 hour journey time, so want a fit and (mostly) forget system.