DIY van conversion insurance

[giants]

Hi all, i am planning on starting a DIY van conversion, i have contacted carol Nash, they said they would only insure as a van, and i presume as soon as i start alterations my insurance would be null and void, one other company said they would only cover for 90 days then it would have to be registered with DVLA as a camper van and reinsured, I am not going to get this done in 90 days.
Any help please.

 

[PeterCarole29]

Hi LV insurance they insure as a van and note it’s a camper and only asses it’s value at the time of any claim

 

[PeterCarole29]

I don’t know if that’s the case if you continue to use it for carrying goods as a commercial vehicle

 

[giants]

I don’t know if that’s the case if you continue to use it for carrying goods as a commercial vehicle

Hi, thanks for the info i will give them a call.

 

[activecampers]

Hi, thanks for the info i will give them a call.

Using the vehicle as a "van" is excluded under most MC policies (carrying "goods or burden") and also alter the MOT from class 4 to class 7.

there have been instances where a van conversion, MC, MOT class 4, insured as MC has been impounded for no insurance and no MOT due to being considered as being used as a van/race van etc.

So tread with open eyes

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[Boldly]

I've just got mine insured with Adrian flux. DVLA refused to change it to motorized caravan insisting on van with windows.was with Aviva for six years but they refused to renew as I had fitted a solar panel.

 

[Northernraider]

Hi all, i am planning on starting a DIY van conversion, i have contacted carol Nash, they said they would only insure as a van, and i presume as soon as i start alterations my insurance would be null and void, one other company said they would only cover for 90 days then it would have to be registered with DVLA as a camper van and reinsured, I am not going to get this done in 90 days.
Any help please.

Adrian flux and brentacre do conversion policies. So you insure it as a van being converted to a camper.

 

[gus-lopez]

there have been instances where a van conversion, MC, MOT class 4, insured as MC has been impounded for no insurance and no MOT due to being considered as being used as a van/race van etc.

but a class 7 is for commercial vehicles which they aren't if being used privately?

 

[Northernraider]

but a class 7 is for commercial vehicles which they aren't if being used privately?

Aye but if its an empty van or has load space that's what they will mot it as. Won't Mot as a camper till it fits description unfortunately. Any load space etc makes it class 7


Although it shouldn't affect insurance unless carrying someone else's good for hire or reward.

You're perfectly entitled to carry your own goods in your own van

 

[activecampers]

Aye but if its an empty van or has load space that's what they will mot it as. Won't Mot as a camper till it fits description unfortunately. Any load space etc makes it class 7

Exactly this.
Its as presented.

So a MC as a MC is class 4
MC with tools or work gear or garage for, say, Motorcross bikes, is class 7.
Can vary depending on the opinion of the MOT tester and the state its presented

Thus, MOT day with camping gear in garage =class 4
Going to market to sell stuff, or builders tools, or MX bike, technically a class 7. So if pulled over, could be done for no MOT (or insurance)

Being pulled and done is RARE but does happen - though never seen a full story or photos - so take it as 3rd hand and just be aware of.

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[Northernraider]

Exactly this.
Its as presented.

So a MC as a MC is class 4
MC with tools or work gear or garage for, say, Motorcross bikes, is class 7.
Can vary depending on the opinion of the MOT tester and the state its presented

Thus, MOT day with camping gear in garage =class 4
Going to market to sell stuff, or builders tools, or MX bike, technically a class 7. So if pulled over, could be done for no MOT (or insurance)

Being pulled and done is RARE but does happen - though never seen a full story or photos - so take it as 3rd hand and just be aware of.

Thats not correct.

Insurance doesn't care what is on the log book or on the mot. You insure the van for what you use it for.

The only time insurance would not cover is if you're carrying someone else's goods for hire or reward.


Lots of motorcaravans have garages so it doesn't really come in to the mot either.

In most cases if it has a bed and a cooker it will be motd as a class 4.

If its an empty van or an empty van full of tools etc then it's a class 7.


The police will simply make sure a vehicle has a current mot. It doesn't matter if its a class 4 or class 7 mot. Makes no difference to them.

 

[gus-lopez]

But this would only apply to vans up to 3,5T. as that is the mgw for a class 7

If its an empty van or an empty van full of tools etc then it's a class 7.

Thus, MOT day with camping gear in garage =class 4
Going to market to sell stuff, or builders tools, or MX bike, technically a class 7.

 

[Northernraider]

But this would only apply to vans up to 3,5T. as that is the mgw for a class 7

Yes that's correct

Anything over 3.5t is hgv or phgv.

To have an hgv changed to phgv you need the dvsa involved.


But you can still have an hgv van motd as class 4 as long as its clearly a camper interior in it. Needs to have a bed, cooker and windows etc.

I just went through that with the vario a few months ago

V5 stated panel van , hgv

Insured as a campervan

Had camper interior

Class 4 mot

 

[activecampers]

MH at 4.5T is class 4, not class 7. The 3.5T has nothing to do with in
Insurance does care, if you are insured as a motorhome, but then are deemed by police/dvsa that its a race van or being used for carrying goods or burden, then its not a motorhome.
V5 does not mention anything about MOT class.

The class 4/7 test is judged by the tester on the day, results may/do vary! But if you turn up in a motorhome with tools/workshop in the garage, or a MX bike and race gear, don't be surprised if you get told you need class 7.

Yes, people have been done for wrong MOT class - it does matter. Of course it does! Otherwise why would people pay for class 7s?

But hey, loads of views on this topic, DYOR and make your own call.

 

[Northernraider]

MH at 4.5T is class 4, not class 7. The 3.5T has nothing to do with in
Insurance does care, if you are insured as a motorhome, but then are deemed by police/dvsa that its a race van or being used for carrying goods or burden, then its not a motorhome.
V5 does not mention anything about MOT class.

The class 4/7 test is judged by the tester on the day, results may/do vary! But if you turn up in a motorhome with tools/workshop in the garage, or a MX bike and race gear, don't be surprised if you get told you need class 7.

Yes, people have been done for wrong MOT class - it does matter. Of course it does! Otherwise why would people pay for class 7s?

But hey, loads of views on this topic, DYOR and make your own call.

I'm afraid most of that is complete nonsense.

Having done this process several times and had lengthy discussions with dvsa and mot inspectors regarding it .

Never in any situation will a dvla registered motorcaravan of any size ve motd as anything bar a class 4. It will never be motd as a class 7
Race van with sleeping and cooking etc is a campervan. Doesn't matter whether it states van or motorcaravan on the v5 its a camper and will be class 4 mot. If an mot inspector insists its class 7 have him contact dvsa in your presence they will soon put them right.

With a self converted van I repeat it does not matter what the v5 states , whether it's below 3.5t or above if it is fitted as a camper it's class 4

If its under 3.5t and no interior it's class 7 and if over 3.5t it's hgv

The insurance only care if you insure something as a camper and then use it as a van carrying a load for hire or reward.

Otherwise they don't care what mot class it is .only what you are using it for.

P.s don't assume your mot inspector knows what he's talking about many don't. Dvsa on the other hand will fix any queries you have.

I recently had to spend 3 hours at an mot station while I had the mot inspector email and phone dvsa to confirm that I knew their Job better than them.

They then had to mot the vehicle as a class 4 camper that they had insisted they couldn't.

The police are also not too clued up on this , there are instances where they've issued speeding tickets to a vehicle because its registered as a van but if its insured and used as a campervan dvla can have the ticket overturned.


Dvla created this issue when they stopped giving out motorcaravan status to vehicles unless they passed a strict criteria. But it dies not stop a van, van with windows etc being used and insured as a campervan....or indeed motd as one.

An obvious garage area in a camper for carrying a motorbike etc is not the same as an obvious loadspace for carrying goods.

If you drive a van everyday as your private vehicle you're fully insured to carry any of your own goods whether it's a motorbike, a lawnmower or a load of crap for a car boot sale. It's only when carrying someone else's goods for hire or reward does it then require business insurance etc.


I was converting a minibus 2 years ago that I had insured as a camper on a conversion policy, it was changed by dvsa from a bus to an hgv on my request. It was motd as an hgv , had bus on the v5 , but hgv mot, and camper conversion insurance , 3 different things but all entirely legal.

When finished It would have become a phgv , van with windows , class 4 mot

The last one was a van on v5 , hgv , but had camper interior and class 4 mot.
No requirement to change any v5 details but I could have had it changed to van with windows and phgv had I desired . But no real benefit either for road tax or insurance to do so

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[PeterCarole29]

MH at 4.5T is class 4, not class 7. The 3.5T has nothing to do with in
Insurance does care, if you are insured as a motorhome, but then are deemed by police/dvsa that its a race van or being used for carrying goods or burden, then its not a motorhome.
V5 does not mention anything about MOT class.

The class 4/7 test is judged by the tester on the day, results may/do vary! But if you turn up in a motorhome with tools/workshop in the garage, or a MX bike and race gear, don't be surprised if you get told you need class 7.

Yes, people have been done for wrong MOT class - it does matter. Of course it does! Otherwise why would people pay for class 7s?

But hey, loads of views on this topic, DYOR and make your own call.

I was specifically talking about LV insurance on the specific request to insure a panel van on the day that was not yet converted
They were fully aware and i stated it was for personal and pleasure use . they explained as i said in my previous post that they insure it as a van for personal and pleasure and note it will be a camper.
Its no more complicated than that.
It would be interesting if you could validate your points with references. As its always good to be well informed and from my understanding from what you say to be correct if your a panel van with class 7 mot it is neccessary by point of law to re mot to a class 4 if you convert it to a camper And the point you are making is that just because people are not aware or cant be bothered doesnt make it right

Does that make sense

 

[mitzimad]

aib and adrian flux will do insurance to cover you during the build have you joined the selfbuild motorcaravan club they have all the info and can get you discounts on build matierials

 

[Sian E]

Going the other way using a MH for commercial use - this is the response from DVSA but note the disclaimer under the address :

==============

Good afternoon,



A motor home used for carrying goods for commercial gain is by definition a living Van. This should be registered as a goods vehicle and as you have stated would need to be above 3500kg gross weight so would require a Tachograph, Operators licence and tested as a HGV. The driver would require a minimum of C1 category depending on the gross weight. They may also require a drivers CPC.



Regards

xxxx Heavy Vehicle Technical Officer.
Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency | Ellipse, Padley Road, Swansea, SA1 8AN
Phone: 03001239000
I am obliged to emphasise that this advice is the view of DVSA and is not intended to be an interpretation of the law;
Only a court of law is able to give a legal, definitive interpretation


Find out more about government services at www.gov.uk/dvsa


From:
Sent: 06 September 2021 15:16
To: Technical Officers <TechnicalOfficers@dvsa.gov.uk>
Subject: Motor Home for business Commercial light goods carry


Dear Sir / Madam

My business exhibits at Public events and major shows. We will need to transport goods and materials which we sell to the public at the events.

Naturally we wish to remain within the applicable laws and regulations. We have identified several concerns which way need clarification on to ensure compliance.

1. Currently, Motor homes are generally not classified for commercial use. If we frequently transport commercial goods in the vehicle for commercial gain, would the vehicle then need to be re-registered as a goods vehicle ?

2. It is unlikely that we will find a vehicle that is under the 3,500 class weight restriction, therefore if it is classified as a goods vehicle, the implication is that we will have to fit Tachograph or similar usage recording devices ?

regards

Sian E

 

[tonyysue]

Hi all, i am planning on starting a DIY van conversion, i have contacted carol Nash, they said they would only insure as a van, and i presume as soon as i start alterations my insurance would be null and void, one other company said they would only cover for 90 days then it would have to be registered with DVLA as a camper van and reinsured, I am not going to get this done in 90 days.
Any help please.

Admiral insure as a van motorhome conversion!