Diesel heating retro fitting in coachbuilt - anyone done it?

[MisterB]

If you use a 20 litre container as a fuel tank, then drill a hole in the cap, cut the "pickup tube" to length and push it the hole in your cap into the fuel, easy peasy.

thanks, i was planning to do it that way. i would fill a spare container with diesel from the local garage if safe to do so and allowed under french law of course and just swap over the containers when one is nearly empty .... if not then i could just use a metal 'jerry can' and transfer the fuel using a small hand held battery operated pump which we use to transfer paraffin into our zibro heater.

all very much in the air at the moment, so any useful suggestions, tips etc are very welcome

 

[jockaneezer]

That unit looks very similar to the package I've just fitted in my workshop MisterB. I put it on my watch list and after a week, they contacted me and dropped the price by 12%. When I came to install it, I couldn't find the thicker black fuel tubing you need to connect the thinner fuel tube to the filter, pump etc, so I used some silicon chainsaw fuel tube I already had and contacted them to complain. They told me it would take 3 to 4 weeks to supply a replacement so I asked for a £10 refund, which they gave me. A week later, I found the black hose, it had slid under the flap of the cardboard box !
I recently got a pop up ad from Aliexpress, offering a similar spec heater for £49. I've never bought from Aliexpress due to their long delivery times and stories I'd heard about their returns policies but was tempted as my son has just bought an ex council Iveco van with a Webasto heater which doesn't run due to a faulty remote display. Webasto want £132 just for the replacement display. I was going to try swapping the display off mine, but the connector plug is a completely different shape. Might have to buy a Chinese spare and butcher it to fit ?

 

[Northernraider]

That unit looks very similar to the package I've just fitted in my workshop MisterB. I put it on my watch list and after a week, they contacted me and dropped the price by 12%. When I came to install it, I couldn't find the thicker black fuel tubing you need to connect the thinner fuel tube to the filter, pump etc, so I used some silicon chainsaw fuel tube I already had and contacted them to complain. They told me it would take 3 to 4 weeks to supply a replacement so I asked for a £10 refund, which they gave me. A week later, I found the black hose, it had slid under the flap of the cardboard box !
I recently got a pop up ad from Aliexpress, offering a similar spec heater for £49. I've never bought from Aliexpress due to their long delivery times and stories I'd heard about their returns policies but was tempted as my son has just bought an ex council Iveco van with a Webasto heater which doesn't run due to a faulty remote display. Webasto want £132 just for the replacement display. I was going to try swapping the display off mine, but the connector plug is a completely different shape. Might have to buy a Chinese spare and butcher it to fit ?

So being a good sort you naturally contacted the seller once you found the black tubing and gave them the £10 back knowing it was probably equal to their profit margin

 

[dna]

We had a Vauxhall omega estate as a company car at one point. What we and the dealer didn't know was that it had a very small diesel heater fitted which helped warm the car and engine in very cold weather.

We only found out when we stopped at a roundabout on a frosty morning and the heater was not burning properly - clouds of white diesel smoke pouring out of the wheel arch was enough to scare me!

Ive not seen this mentioned for van heaters but i guess it must happen occasionally

 

[Ivory55]

We had a Vauxhall omega estate as a company car at one point. What we and the dealer didn't know was that it had a very small diesel heater fitted which helped warm the car and engine in very cold weather.

We only found out when we stopped at a roundabout on a frosty morning and the heater was not burning properly - clouds of white diesel smoke pouring out of the wheel arch was enough to scare me!

Ive not seen this mentioned for van heaters but i guess it must happen occasionally

I have seen it on trucks when they have not been used for a while, like all summer

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[MisterB]

my son has just bought an ex council Iveco van with a Webasto heater which doesn't run due to a faulty remote display. Webasto want £132 just for the replacement display. I was going to try swapping the display off mine, but the connector plug is a completely different shape. Might have to buy a Chinese spare and butcher it to fit ?

have you looked at the afterburner mentioned earlier in this thread. i think it might replace the display and remote - you could try looking on youtube for some info on the afterburner - the originals come from australia !!

 

[fullfat]

My Discovery had one fitted

 

[jockaneezer]

I'd heard about the Afterburner on Dave McLukie's website, but didn't need the features it was offering, so dismissed it, but I'll have another look at it. My sil lives in Brisbane, so could get her to circumvent the delivery problems. Dave also mentioned a UK based "scumbag" who had blatantly copied the Afterburner circuit board and was selling them as his own

 

[Two on Tour]

Dave also mentioned a UK based "scumbag" who had blatantly copied the Afterburner circuit board and was selling them as his own

The "scumbag" is ACLS Motorhome & Marine of Lanarkshire and he has also been palming off cheaper Chinese diesel heaters as the American branded diesel heaters from VVKB.
This guy certainly appears to have no morals.

 

[OllyHughes]

If anyone is thinking of fitting a Chinese Diesel Heater this link is part of a very good 19 part tutorial covering every aspect of maintainance running and fitting these heaters and is well worth the effort of watching

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[Itsmcb]

If anyone is thinking of fitting a Chinese Diesel Heater this link is part of a very good 19 part tutorial covering every aspect of maintainance running and fitting these heaters and is well worth the effort of watching

John McK, I'm surprised no one has mentioned his videos on this thread before. He's considered the diesel heater guru.

 

[Itsmcb]

Good old Gadget John rears his ugly head again. There is no way I would trust anything that guy does.
I take it you have not seen his video on his lithium battery install which was discuss on a Funster thread a year or so ago, that proved that he can be clueless.

Anyway I have just watched his heater install video and I'll give you my views on some areas of his install.

Luckily his kit came with the correct fuel line and that fuel line has to be used all the way not just the last part as he suggested unless you use a fuel line of the same internal bore and is not a rubber or flexible type like silicon tubing as these will kill the pulse of the fuel dosing pump due to the fuel line expanding and contacting and taking the energy out of the pump pulse. He does not seem to understand that the fuel dosing pump delivers ,022ml of fuel per stroke and the pump rate ( 1 stoke @ 1 Hz = 1 stroke per second ) is controlling the amount of fuel delivered to burn so adjusting the heat delivered. He has also fitted the fuel filter the wrong way around for the flow of fuel.

The mounting plate supplied for the heater should be chucked away if your install through the floor of a MH as the are designed to be used on a thin metal skin of a van or lorry.
For a thicker insulated floor as in a MH you should use a metal turret as the photos below and the hole drilled through for it should allow for a 3mm air gap around the ring section that goes through the floor to stop heat transfer from the hot exhaust which is getting towards the wrong side of 500 C as it exits the heater, and does he not realise that aluminium foil is an excellent conductor of heat.

View attachment 458313 View attachment 458337

Moving on to his fuel tank. I do not see it as a good idea of hanging 15Kg on a plastic door skin which are usually about 2mm thick. I wonder how long that stays attached after a few bumpy roads and speed humps, and as for his leave the cap loose, did he miss the vent hole and non return valve in the cap. I have had 5 or these Chinese diesel heaters come through my hands and all have have a vented cap. Here's a cap cap from a tank that I did not use for an install.

View attachment 458364 View attachment 458366

To prime the fuel for the first firing of the heater, you put it into priming mode which stops automatically after a set period. If the fuel has not reached the heater then you prime again. You watch the fuel as it makes it's way along the fuel line and when it reaches the heater you stop the priming. If you over prime you can flood the heater which will then not start and you have a problem that need not happen.

The gauge and length of the power cable supplied with these Chinese heaters can cause problems with the voltage drop on startup and shut down when the glowplug pulls about 10 amps and was graphically illustrated when he showed the voltage dropping to 11 volt at the heater. If his hab battery was giving a health 12.5 - 12.8 volt, than a hab battery voltage any lower will cause a shutdown on startup as the glowplug does no reach a heat to ignite the fuel. This potential problem can be overcome by replacing the original power cable with 4mm2 on shorter runs or 6mm2 on longer runs.

I noted that he is utilising the existing Truma ducting. The Chinese heater ducting has an internal diameter of 75mm where as the Truma ducting has an external diameter of 65mm meaning the it's internal diameter is nearer 60mm. Using the Truma ducting greatly reduces the cross sectional area from that of the 75mm ducting which is likely to increase the back pressure of the airflow and slowing down the air speed down the ducting. The heater relies on a certain volume of cool air being drew across the combustion chamber fins to extract the heat you want from the heater at also to maintain the correct temperature of the combustion chamber casing and reducing the volume of airflow can and will cause overheating of the heater which is likely to cause the heater to shutdown if used at higher heater setting. Adding insulation as he has done only concentrates more heat in the area of the combustion chamber. I don't know the lengths of his Truma ducting in his van, but the recommended overall maximum length of the 75mm to be used is 3 metres, so this will be greatly reduced by going down to 60mm.

I did lots of research earlier in the year as I was going to fit one ready for skiing. I'll agree with everything you've listed .

 

[MisterB]

My heater has just arrived, only took a few days. Just checked the contents and it all seems to be there and well packaged with no damage.

If I get chance I will try to get it up and running later this week AFTER I've done what the boss is 'suggesting'I should do first ....

 

[Jezzapux]

I have had a variety of heaters in various vans over more than 20 years. Eberspacher both air and water. currently got a Truma combi which is very good but I hope it never goes wrong as spares are eye wateringly expensive. They are powered by either or both gas and mains electric, very quiet and good. Big advantage of gas over diesel is the ignition energy required; if the battery is not absolutely fully charged a diesel heater shuts down and wont start which can be rather disappointing! Cured by starting the engine which pops up the voltage and it will start, only the very old ones have bang bang controls, the newer ones modulate the output so will not shut down unless they cannot turn down far enough. I fitted an Eberspacher hydronic to the bus we roamed around NZ in every summer for nearly a decade, 5Kw and very small and neat, all of them can be a bit noisy on a quite night. They all use a considerable amount of juice. Diesel heaters are additionally smelly on start and shutdown.

Our currant van has a Truma 4 combi fitted. This is a very good piece of kit and is gas fired, I have a gas low system (so having to fill up at a filling station is no hardship) They are very quiet provided they are not on full power.
Although there is a risk, I bought the Eberspacher off E-bay, it worked fine and also had the advantage, because it was water of preheating the engine ensuring a quick and easy start. It was an old bus with a simple engine, no common rail injection There are several companies that specialise in reclaimed equipment many are fairly new having come from a written off vehicle which would be my choice if I wanted one, just maker sure that you purchase the electronic controls and thermostat etc when you buy it.
Have fun Jeremy

 

[footscray188c]

Gadget John youbtube

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[Two on Tour]

Gadget John youbtube

You obviously have missed all the earlier posts in this thread regarding Gadget John's heater install.

 

[footscray188c]

So sorry doh

 

[jumar]

You obviously have missed all the earlier posts in this thread regarding Gadget John's heater install.

Did someone post that it's better to follow the Chinese installation procedure...even if you don't speak/ read Chinese than following Gadget John's YouTube video....just as well I read Mandarin....

 

[NickAdler]

Good old Gadget John rears his ugly head again. There is no way I would trust anything that guy does.
I take it you have not seen his video on his lithium battery install which was discuss on a Funster thread a year or so ago, that proved that he can be clueless.

Anyway I have just watched his heater install video and I'll give you my views on some areas of his install.

Gadget John took out an AGM system (I think) and is on his third attempt in just two years and three suppliers trying to get a Lithium system working.
He could be a bozo but the expertise he's called on is far more than I have access to. His experiences are quite enough to warn me off fitting an expensive prototype system.

 

[NickAdler]

Good old Gadget John rears his ugly head again. There is no way I would trust anything that guy does.
I take it you have not seen his video on his lithium battery install which was discuss on a Funster thread a year or so ago, that proved that he can be clueless.

Anyway I have just watched his heater install video and I'll give you my views on some areas of his install.

Gadget John took out an AGM system (I think) and is on his third attempt in just two years and three suppliers trying to get a Lithium system working.
He could be a bozo but the expertise he's called on is far more than I have access to. His experiences are quite enough to warn me off fitting an expensive prototype system.

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[footscray188c]

Look on u tube another guy fitted a DHtr in a coachbuilt did a good job can't remember his name . Agree GJ is a knob his wife even more so.

 

[footscray188c]

Found it UK preppers guide.

 

[Northernraider]

His sidekick virgoe aint much better lol ....but hailed as a god on the facebook self build groups.

It seems if you have a self promoting YouTube channel then anything you do must be right

Theres one guy telling everyone insulation is a waste of time and money and running a heater all night is much better and you won't get any condensation

 

[footscray188c]

I think GV is ok he did a nice job on his conversion. But GJ when he ripped out the back of his PVC my God why would you do that ? Someone bought it from John's X when GJ part ex it.

 

[Tinker2]

I fitted our Chinese diesel heater under our MH as there was nowhere suitable in our MH.
The heat is ducted up through the floor in the bathroom and out through vents into the bathroom and hab area.

I run ours on home heating oil at around 30p a litre as we have a couple of thousand litres in our tank for our oil fired home heating.

View attachment 457946

View attachment 457947

View attachment 457948

Looks identical to mine.

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[MisterB]

His sidekick virgoe aint much better lol ....but hailed as a god on the facebook self build groups.

I think they're chalk and cheese, Greg Virgo is an extremely competent design engineer. I have seen his conversion in the flesh and it's as good if not better than a lot of professional conversions I have seen.

I actually also like to watch John and Mandy, but I wouldn't copy anything they do, but it's good to see how others do things as it informs my thought process when/if I decide to do something similar.

Apparently they dint make a lot of money via YouTube BUT they do seem to get a lot of 'samples' to test and review, then sell them on later ....

 

[82125]

Not a fan of diesel heaters. The boat had two of them fitted.
Had a webasto and and Eberspacher, both required constant fettling to keep them working. In the end i had a dealer service the Eberspacher (at a cost of almost £800!), lasted just over 3mths before it started carboning up again (despite religiously making sure i ran it hot before switching it off each time and running it periodically on paraffin to clear it out).

I found the heat stifling and area specific too. Too hot by the outlet yet cold elsewhere. They also dont like being run on low settings (get clogged with carbon) so for longevity its best to run them on high (which means having to switch it off and on again all the time when its gets too hot in the living area).

In the end I replaced the Eberspacher with a cheap chinese version of amazon. Under £70 for the full kit! Which (to me) seemed like an exact copy of the rip off branded ones. Even mounted in the existing brackets, and connected with the existing connections with ease. At that price i'd consider fitting one to my MH as a back up option but not something id want to use regularly.
I love my Alde heating on the MH dont even notice its on other than the temperature is perfect.

If you fit a diesel heater just make sure you have easy access to the unit, but especially the PUMP because you will need it.

 

[Northernraider]

I think they're chalk and cheese, Greg Virgo is an extremely competent design engineer. I have seen his conversion in the flesh and it's as good if not better than a lot of professional conversions I have seen.

I actually also like to watch John and Mandy, but I wouldn't copy anything they do, but it's good to see how others do things as it informs my thought process when/if I decide to do something similar.

Apparently they dint make a lot of money via YouTube BUT they do seem to get a lot of 'samples' to test and review, then sell them on later ....

They are the best of friends and currently touring europe together .... you would think if virgoe was good some of it would rub off