Defibrillators

[Newfie]

Defibrillators
A couple of questions to people who carry a defibrillator
Do you notify the site that you stay on that you have one available to use in emergency
Do you have a sign on your MH saying you carry one

 

[Carpmart]

Can I jump in on this and add a couple more questions please!

- what make and model defibrillator did you choose and why?

- Did you find any Govt or other agency subsidy for buying one and offering it as an asset to be used by others?

Thanks!

 

[Steve and Denise]

Defibrillators
A couple of questions to people who carry a defibrillator
Do you notify the site that you stay on that you have one available to use in emergency
Do you have a sign on your MH saying you carry one

We bought one as anyone can so it’s no and no

 

[The Wino]

Just a thought but if there's a sign on a motorhome saying they carry a defibrillator and it's needed and they're out is it a reasonable reason to break in as presumably it could be a matter of life or death

 

[Riverbankannie]

We carry one and I notify Rally Marshals. Don’t have a notice. I think it s crazy that they do not attract VAT relief as a medical aid.
I chose this one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BK1KBP12/?tag=mhf04-21 and also you need to put scissors (the sort to cut cloth) and a wipe to dry the skin, together with it.

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[Jonno1103]

I do hope those with defib kits actually know how to use them and understand that their purpose is to correct irregular heart beats. They DO NOT re start hearts once flat lined.

 

[Carpmart]

I do hope those with defib kits actually know how to use them and understand that their purpose is to correct irregular heart beats. They DO NOT re start hearts once flat lined.

They are automated and the machine makes the decision to shock or not… thankfully no real opportunity for user error…

 

[Howard B]

I do hope those with defib kits actually know how to use them and understand that their purpose is to correct irregular heart beats. They DO NOT re start hearts once flat lined.

The new ones are idiot proof and talk you through the process.

 

[Sue and Rick]

Thats what the lithium and jump leads are for.

 

[Riverbankannie]

I do hope those with defib kits actually know how to use them and understand that their purpose is to correct irregular heart beats. They DO NOT re start hearts once flat lined.

Thats why I bought a fully automated one. You cannot do any harm. If someone had flatlined, I would certainly give it a go, then its up to the machine to take over.

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[Carpmart]

Just a thought but if there's a sign on a motorhome saying they carry a defibrillator and it's needed and they're out is it a reasonable reason to break in as presumably it could be a matter of life or death

Absolutely not!

 

[Steve and Denise]

Just a thought but if there's a sign on a motorhome saying they carry a defibrillator and it's needed and they're out is it a reasonable reason to break in as presumably it could be a matter of life or death

That’s why anyone can buy one for their own use, I have not spent my money on something for other people to use or for that matter to break into my vehicle because they have chosen to spend their money on other things in life.

 

[Otter Spotter]

That’s why anyone can buy one for their own use, I have not spent my money on something for other people to use or for that matter to break into my vehicle because they have chosen to spend their money on other things in life.

But you would give them a plaster if they cut a finger ?

 

[Steve and Denise]

But you would give them a plaster if they cut a finger ?

Likewise they can also buy them the same. As me
Te point I am making is nobody has the right to use my things without my permission

 

[Spriddler]

I'm intrigued. It has never crossed my mind to have one.
Do people carry these because they have a medical reason/history to expect to need it, or do they see it as just part of a 'normal' first aid kit?

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[Newfie]

Can you charge them on 12v or mains only

 

[Newfie]

I originally asked the question as I have been diagnosed with an irregular heart beat & was monitored over 3 months with no changes, so they said all ok & live with it for now.
So just started looking into to them. Always good if you can help out (not only your immediate family but others as well) in an emergency

 

[Steve and Denise]

I'm intrigued. It has never crossed my mind to have one.
Do people carry these because they have a medical reason/history to expect to need it, or do they see it as just part of a 'normal' first aid kit?

We bought one as my wife’s parents both died of heart failure, I also have A/F,
So for the sake of a few quid it may help, I would also use it to help others if needed, but would certainly not advertise the fact there is one in the van incase someone thought they had the right to break in and use things that they have no right to.

 

[icantremember]

We carry one and I notify Rally Marshals. Don’t have a notice. I think it s crazy that they do not attract VAT relief as a medical aid.
I chose this one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BK1KBP12/?tag=mhf04-21 and also you need to put scissors (the sort to cut cloth) and a wipe to dry the skin, together with it.

Annie, can you please give some idea of any maintenance required and life span of battery.

 

[Steve and Denise]

Can you charge them on 12v or mains only

They have a sealed battery that can be replaced periodically

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[carolyn]

The Zoll AED Plus is very good and easy. It has the advantage that the batteries are just ordinary store ones from somewhere like Screwfix Duracell 123a, 10 of them. They should last a minimum of 5 years.

 

[tacr2man]

Can you charge them on 12v or mains only

AFAIK they are non rechargeable , last 2 to 5 years and are about £250 to buy , also the pads are lifed as well
I bought mine when I became a First Responder ,as they didnt have enough funding to be able to supply straight off . I kept it when i stopped .

 

[Wanders from Glos]

I am a frontline ambulance worker and well done to those who carry AEDs. I can recall situations when off duty and I needed one.

Most AEDs provide verbal instructions and the pads have pictures to show where to stick them. They are fairly automatic, but there are some actions that it will be useful to know and will greatly improve the chances of the casualty.

Firstly start CPR straight away after placing the patient on the ground if necessary. Remember to dry the person and shave chest hair if needed (most packs have a razor). Continue CPR whilst all this is being done, when the machine is ready to analyse it will tell you to stop. While it analyses no one should touch the casualty. In terms of using them properly most (but not all) are automatic, some have a manual option but I imagine these are rare on the general market. I haven't seen an AED where the delivery of actual shock is automatic, after they have charged (the automatic part) usually a button has to be pressed. This part is manual because it is the moment of danger for those providing assistance. It is essential to ensure no one is touching the casualty or very near them, including o2 if it is being used. I suggest you check for example by saying 'top clear, middle clear, bottom clear' then shout.. 'shocking'. Unless the machine says so or you can see obvious rise and fall of the chest or you can feel a pulse, get straight back on the chest to perform CPR. Do not delay.

I am not legally allowed to break in to private property to get an AED so I doubt you are, that is a police decision. There are usually lots of onlookers, just send a few people to find one. Just keep doing CPR until a medically qualified person arrives or someone with an AED. An ambulance will be pretty quick even in the current NHS climate. I am sure if the owner is around, like any reasonable person they will allow it to be used.

On the question of asystole or flat line, in nearly all cases the AED will not create a charge and so you cannot shock them. But it doesn't matter if you do, they are dead anyway so no harm done. A greater concern is where the person has been wrongly identified as in cardiac arrest. That said since most are automatic there still won't be a risk beyond a few broken ribs. By the way, It is not always easy to tell asystole, sometimes there are small waves only visible on closer examination when things are less fraught. I have seen people who at a quick glance appeared to be in asystole but were shocked using manual mode, because someone was sharp enough to look closely. Anyway, all this should be irrelevant as the AED will advise, as long as it does not have a manual mode.

Always remember the person is currently dead, you can only make it better you can't make it worse. If you save their lives they might have a few broken ribs but they will still be very grateful. Don't worry about doing it wrong.

 

[Littlewheels]

We carry one and I notify Rally Marshals. Don’t have a notice. I think it s crazy that they do not attract VAT relief as a medical aid.
I chose this one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BK1KBP12/?tag=mhf04-21 and also you need to put scissors (the sort to cut cloth) and a wipe to dry the skin, together with it.

Thanks for the link,however,looked on line and found this:

Nihon Kohden Defibrillator

Nihon Kohden Defibrillator enables anyone to save a life. Its intuitive design and voice instruction simplifies the delivery of defibrillation.

defibworld.org

Quite a saving appears to be the same, would you agree. Thanks.

 

[PaulW2]

I remember being given some stats during first aid training which included defib training.

They are pretty daunting. I don't recall all the details - hopefully some medically trained people will weigh in - but the chances of survival where they are needed but not used are very slight.

Looking at Dr Google now:

Fewer than 10% of cardiac arrests outside hospital settings are reportedly survived. Speed is of the essence. Within the first few minutes (literally - every minute's delay reduces survival by about 10%) one has a better chance. But that means that whoever is doing it must know what they are doing, able to apply CPR and use the machine.

The initial rhythm is apparently shockable by a defibrillator in about 25% of cases.

So merrily driving along, keel over. Heart fibrillates aways. Vehicle stops (spouse presumably grabs wheel, pulls up handbrake), spouse drags you out of seat, out of van (little chance of kneeling next to a supine person to do CPR and breathing in most vans), rips shirt off, initiates CPR and fires up the flux capacitor which then shocks you back to the future at will. In 3 minutes.

If it can be done properly in 3 minutes and they have a shockable rhythm, survival chances are theoretically apparently about 75% (?). Then drops by 10% a minute. But even in hospitals I understand they only achieve about a 20% success rate.

I don't have a defibrillator, and if I had one I calculate it would make almost no difference to my survival chances as the likelihood of it being successfully used by someone other than unconscious me in the required timeframe would be vanishingly low.

(CPR has to be performed pretty vigorously. Depress the sternum by about 2 inches, often resulting in broken ribs. Have your spouses been doing their stoutness exercises?)

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[Wanders from Glos]

I remember being given some stats during first aid training which included defib training.

They are pretty daunting. I don't recall all the details - hopefully some medically trained people will weigh in - but the chances of survival where they are needed but not used are very slight.

Looking at Dr Google now:

Fewer than 10% of cardiac arrests outside hospital settings are reportedly survived. Speed is of the essence. Within the first few minutes (literally - every minute's delay reduces survival by about 10%) one has a better chance. But that means that whoever is doing it must know what they are doing, able to apply CPR and use the machine.

The initial rhythm is apparently shockable by a defibrillator in about 25% of cases.

So merrily driving along, keel over. Heart fibrillates aways. Vehicle stops (spouse presumably grabs wheel, pulls up handbrake), spouse drags you out of seat, out of van (little chance of kneeling next to a supine person to do CPR and breathing in most vans), rips shirt off, initiates CPR and fires up the flux capacitor which then shocks you back to the future at will. In 3 minutes.

If it can be done properly in 3 minutes and they have a shockable rhythm, survival chances are theoretically apparently about 75% (?). Then drops by 10% a minute. But even in hospitals I understand they only achieve about a 20% success rate.

I don't have a defibrillator, and if I had one I calculate it would make almost no difference to my survival chances as the likelihood of it being successfully used by someone other than unconscious me in the required timeframe would be vanishingly low.

(CPR has to be performed pretty vigorously. Depress the sternum by about 2 inches, often resulting in broken ribs. Have your spouses been doing their stoutness exercises?)

Absolutely, early good quality CPR is essential. There is usually someone around who knows how to do it.

 

[Two on Tour]

We carry a Zoll AED Plus on our van and take it in the house when not travelling.

Neither of us has heart problems that we know of, but we decided some time ago that a thousand pounds was worth paying for a second chance at life if a defibrillator would give you that chance.

Our van has stickers on both sides and the rear indicating that we have a defibrillator onboard in case we can offer anybody else that second chance.

 

[Steve and Denise]

I can remember MHF doing some fund raising to buy some !

 

[Riverbankannie]

Thanks for the link,however,looked on line and found this:

Nihon Kohden Defibrillator

Nihon Kohden Defibrillator enables anyone to save a life. Its intuitive design and voice instruction simplifies the delivery of defibrillation.

defibworld.org

Quite a saving appears to be the same, would you agree. Thanks.

The one in your link slightly more expensive I think, am I missing something? They appear to be the same machine even though my link says fully automatic and your link says semi-automatic.

 

[Riverbankannie]

Annie, can you please give some idea of any maintenance required and life span of battery.

Am feeling a bit poorly at the moment so from memory, 10 year battery life and routine testing maintenance advised. Obviously if used then have to replace parts.