Dead battery after our first ever trip !!!

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Happy Jack

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Hi all.
We started our van build with every intention of going for a run weekly to blow the cobwebs out, keep the dreaded stiction at bay and keep the starter battery charged. You guessed right, got to 2 then 3 weeks etc. Battery ended up flat on 3 or 4 occasions. Van is 15 plate ducato.
No matter it charged OK each time.
Just back from our first trip visited 3 sites and relatives.
Milages were 60, 40, 40, 60, 90.
All ok no bother with battery.
Made some improvements from our experience and sorted the comet submersible pump that had seized up !
One week after return, tried engine start but battery flat !!!
Charged it up but still not turning engine, with all the normal dash messages you get.
Voltage check, 10.7 ! Tried charging with + and - removed, still dead.
Guess a battery has to expire when it does.
Looking at a Bosch 100A, 850 cranking.
Dead one is 95/800. Does that sound a good prospect ?
Also, we probably won't be using the van next winter.
Any recommendations for a battery maintainer to get would be much appreciated, thinking would like to fit one in a permanent manner.
Thanks,
Happy Jack.
 
The best way to keep topped up is solar on roof and a battery master to trickle charge both cab and habitation.
Congratulations on your first trip!
I expect your battery could not cope with the continual discharges.
 
Just checking ..... You're not running your habitation off your engine battery ?
 
No, totally isolated although I have got an earth lead ready to fit from hab batt to van earth. Anyway, charged the batt with leads off, left it after charging to settle down then voltage checked, only 10.7. Definitely dead I guess.
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Full discharge of any lead acid type battery will significantly shorten it's life. As a rule don't go below 50%. If the battery is flattened 3 or 4 times it will be compromised. It may appear to accept a charge but amount held will be well down on it's expected capacity. You now need to expect to replace it.

I don't understand how you are flattening you engine battery if habitation is separate. Something isn't wired right.

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Engine battery as already explained has been flat a number of times as engine not turned over for weeks at a time.
Non of the van electrics have been touched apart from the courtesy lights in the back end were disconnected when we started the conversion. As the battery refused to go above 10.7V even when charged for 24 hours then left to settle before checking voltage, I suspect it is goosed.
Happy Jack.
 
You need to measure the current coming from the battery when standing to see if you have a significant parasitic drain on it otherwise you may keep having the same problem.
 
Yes, good idea. How do I measure current drain ?
Happy Jack.
 
Happy Jack said:
Yes, good idea. How do I measure current drain ?
Happy Jack.
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Have you checked you have turned everything off. I often leVe the cigarette lighter charger in so that is not off are the cab lights off when you leave it may be so.ething very simple that is draining it especially if you do not have solar trickle

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Happy Jack said:
As the battery refused to go above 10.7V even when charged for 24 hours then left to settle before checking voltage, I suspect it is goosed.
Click to expand...
Looks like the battery has a shorted cell. A battery has 6 cells, and a voltage of about 12.6V, so that's about 2.1V per cell. If one cell is shorted, it becomes a 5-cell battery, with a voltage of 5 x 2.1 = 10.5V. So yes, I agree it's goosed.
 
Agree with all the previous posters - the battery may tell you it's ok with a 12.6volt charge, but then you try and start it and it's not turning over properly - I had a couple of very lucky escapes when the van fired up recently after churning the engine with a clearly underperforming battery.

Solution = new battery. No issues now but a 100 quid down for the pleasure!!!!
 
Battery has been off the van 24hrs now. Got 12.6 V reading, so out it back in and tried starting; not turning engine. Recheck voltage, back down to 10.6.....= 1 dead cell.
Have ordered a Bosch 100A battery.
Will decide later what type of maintainer to get for the winter months when not out so much.
Happy Jack.
 
Happy Jack said:
Yes, good idea. How do I measure current drain ?
Happy Jack.
Click to expand...
Buy a DC clamp multimeter, set it to measure DC amps and after zeroing it, clamp it around the earth lead this will be able to measure the current going in or out of your battery. With everything switched off the current drain should be around 50 mA (milliamps) if it's much higher than you have something draining the battery, either a short to earth or perhaps a failed diode in the alternator or elsewhere. The UNI-T UT210E meter is reliable and reasonably priced, beware of cheaper ones on ebay and whichever one you buy it should be described as True RMS.
 
Thanks Chris. Will check it out. Have used clampmeters before in my past working life but been retired long enough to have forgotten about them !!!
Happy Jack.

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Battery is knackered for sure.

On the charger front. This is the one I bought in 2015 and it has been brilliant. Has a reconditioning feature which I am pretty sure helps but haven't done actual scientific tests on.

CTEK are a good brand for chargers I think.

 
This site contains affiliate links for which MHF may be compensated.
ChrisL said:
The UNI-T UT210E meter is reliable and reasonably priced, beware of cheaper ones on ebay and whichever one you buy it should be described as True RMS.
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The UNI-T UT210E is a good option, it's the one that I and several on here others have. True RMS is only relevant to AC. Many clamp meters, especially the cheaper ones, can only measure AC amps, not DC. They can measure AC and DC Volts, so the marketing describes them as 'AC/DC Clamp Meter'. You need to check the small print to be sure it does DC Amps.

For example the UNI-T UT210A, B and C don't measure DC Amps, but the UT210D and E do measure DC Amps.
 
autorouter said:
but the UT210D and E do measure DC Amps.
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Make sure you buy the D. It does 200A the E only does 100A.
Also the D has temp and frequency which may come in useful.

D vs E meter.png
 
Thanks Grommet. Will check the CTEK out.
Why but a clampmeter that only measures DC amps ?
Cos at my time of life highly unlikely that I would ever need to measure AC. If it's same or similar cost then fair enough. Might be useful if someone needs to borrow it.
Happy Jack.

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To work out where your parasitic drain is coming from (well going to) is remove fuses one at a time from the van fuse box and plug in an ammeter. This will identify what is flattening the battery. Usual suspects are the radio, the alarm and body control ecu, which wakes up every time you open a door
 
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Do the uni clampmeters measure mAmps if there is drain present ?
Had a quick look at the D version on fleabay and the current range seemed to be 20 to 200A.
TheBig1, I have a fluke and could measure current with items switched on then off and also removing fuses one at a time to see if there is any parasitic drain. Is that the way to do it ?
Should the battery on a 15 plate last longer than it did ?
One cell seems to be definitely dead.
As said earlier, I am probably guilty of not using the van for lengthy periods during the conversion. Battery has been flat on maybe 5 occasions.
Happy Jack.
 
Happy Jack said:
Do the uni clampmeters measure mAmps if there is drain present ?
Had a quick look at the D version on fleabay and the current range seemed to be 20 to 200A.
Click to expand...
I prefer the UT210E to the UT210D. I have never had any need to measure a current higher than 100A. The UT210E has a 2A range that measures small currents, fractions of an amp. It's easy to find clamp meters that measure high current, but difficult to find one that is still good for very small currents. I find that I'm more often measuring small currents to check for unwanted drain issues, and the UT210E is the best for that. But you know best what you are likely to need.

In case you haven't noticed, both these clamp meters have two sockets in the base, not visible in the front picture. You can plug in two probes and test for voltage and resistance/continuity just like a multimeter.
 
TheBig1 said:
To work out where your parasitic drain is coming from (well going to) is remove fuses one at a time from the van fuse box and plug in an ammeter. This will identify what is flattening the battery. Usual suspects are the radio, the alarm and body control ecu, which wakes up every time you open a door
Click to expand...
Another way which saves having to pull fuses is to measure the voltage across the back of the fuse, the procedure in the following video explains how.

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Thanks Autorouter, think I will go for the E version.
Thanks Chris, will check out the video before the new battery arrives.
Any comments on battery life ? I know all sorts of factors come in to play and I don't know what sort of life the van had in the 5 years before I got it but of course I do know it's been too inactive in the 2 years I've had it.
Happy Jack.
 
Happy Jack said:
Any comments on battery life ?
Click to expand...
If it's the original battery from 2015 then it was probably close to the end of its life anyway and then leaving it partially charged over the last couple of years finished it off would be my guess.
 
Chris, think it was the original.
It has a FIAM sticker on it. Don't know if there are any date codes on it and can't check now. It went to our local recycle centre thisavo, I had loads of other crap to get rid of.
Happy Jack.
 
An update.
New 100A battery arrived Tuesday morning. Fitted it and started engine. Just idled for a minute and switched off.
Yes I should have checked the voltage first.
Anyway, been checking voltage regularly since.
Varies slightly during the day between 12.28 to 12.32....presumably as the day warms up.
My fluke is ancient so accuracy is suspect but ok as a comparator. Will carry on checking another couple of days but thinking there is no drain.
Thinking the old batt was goosed, maybe a little prematurely from me not using the van enough during the build.
Happy Jack.
 

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