D+ Signal

bigtwin

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I’ve just finished fitting a Victron Orion XS50 and, prior to fitting it, had identified a D+ feed (from the CBE DS560 Control/Distribution Box) to trigger the charging.

I have confirmed that the XS is operating fine on the standard voltage discrimination and a charge is going to the batteries. However when I went back to check/confirm which wire I was going to use as the D+ trigger, it is absent (the D+ signal, not the wire 😎). The D+ supply at the back of the fridge is also absent.

I have checked fuse 1 in the control box and that’s all good.

Any suggestions on where I look next?
Is the D+ signal likely to be fused anywhere on the base vehicle (Iveco Daily) prior to it being fed to the DS560 Control Box/Rear of the fridge?
IMG_2412.webp
IMG_2413.webp


Ian
 
Cant see anything in the Iveco manual specifically - Expect they send the signal to one of the computer modules (BCM?) on mine 2022, and from there to the "bodybuilders socket".

We do have a D+ input connection in the DS, but ours is a DS470, so different layout to yours - if you could find that you might be able to trace it back?

Just going out, but will have another look later....
 
Reading the fuse list it says it's a simulated D+ maybe the box of tricks used to simulated the D+ signal is goosed normally a D+ will be a yellow cable if any help.
 
Reading the fuse list it says it's a simulated D+ maybe the box of tricks used to simulated the D+ signal is goosed normally a D+ will be a yellow cable if any help.

Both the D+ at the back of the fridge and the wires on plug 32 have grey wires.

We do have a D+ input connection in the DS, but ours is a DS470, so different layout to yours - if you could find that you might be able to trace it back?

Tracing the wires is nigh on impossible. The one at the back of the fridge disappears into a loom but I’ll check the one that feeds/exits the DS box but I fear that, too, will disappear into a loom.

Ian
 
Is there anything at 23 says D+ out as well ?

There’s nothing connected there (it’s just three male spades) but I haven’t checked to see if it has a D+ supply on the spades. I’ll check them out tomorrow but, clearly, they’re not the root of the absence of the D+.👍

Ian
 
There’s nothing connected there (it’s just three male spades) but I haven’t checked to see if it has a D+ supply on the spades. I’ll check them out tomorrow but, clearly, they’re not the root of the absence of the D+.👍

Ian
Found this and if you translate it says 23 is the d+ output for fridge and step
 

Attachments

I think it is possible that the simulated D+ is operated using a Volt sensing relay which may be in the DS560 or in a separate unit marked Separatore Elettronico ( CBE SB100)
I do not know if yours is the same but ,The DS520 functions section states that the D+ can be activated only if the B2 leisure battery is connected , has this been been altered ?
 
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Not Iveco and probably an older chassis than yours, but we had the D+ relay fail on our Mercedes chassis

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Found this and if you translate it says 23 is the d+ output for fridge and step
That’s interesting that the translation is different from the English version I posted in my OP but, as I said earlier, there is nothing actually connected to it. I think that GeoffnDee is probably onto something with his comments below:
I think it is possible that the simulated D+ is operated using a Volt sensing relay which may be in the DS560 or in a separate unit marked Separatore Elettronico ( CBE SB100)
I do not know if yours is the same but ,The DS520 functions section states that the D+ can be activated only if the B2 leisure battery is connected , has this been been altered ?

I suspect that you are correct. Previously, ie before I fitted the XS50, the charging process was via the SBB-100 which I have ‘removed’. However, I discovered that the engine battery voltage was no longer being displayed on my control panel so I have reconnected the SBB-100 but without the B2 connection being made. This has resolved the loss of the engine battery status indication.

I shall have to have a think about how this can be resolved but would welcome further thoughts on it. 👍

Ian
 
The DS520 functions section states that the D+ can be activated only if the B2 leisure battery is connected

Are you able to post a copy/link to the document that states that?

Thanks

Ian
 
Sorry Ian ,I only have a paper copy that I downloaded from somewhere that is , the same as you have , a CBE operation information manual , but for the Distribution box DS520-AN , It may have been on this site and has information regarding regarding removing a resistor (found in later units ) to disable the battery parallel relay which some one needed..
Sorry I cannot help more but if you can find it ,the information about the D+ is on the Electrical Systems Functions page that follows the connections pages.
I will try to find it and will get back if I do.
 
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It may have been on this site and has information regarding regarding removing a resistor (found in later units ) to disable the battery parallel relay which some one needed
Sounds interesting. 👍

Ian
 
I've Looked through the Iveco owners handbook and workshop manual, can't find a dedicated fuse as such. Have seen a different version of your DS somewhere 570 Ithink. I'll see if a can find it again tomorrow, think it was on Linertreff.com. AI reckons Iveco may refer to it as Onboard Signal, I'll have a search in the workshop manual again tomorrow.
 
The one I have suggested (12voltplanet) has the details on page 30 regarding removing the resistor if you need to disable the spit charging (DS520 AN )

That’s useful to know but I think that my box (DS560) as the split charging is not part of the control box. On mine it’s done via the SBB-100 unit.👍

Ian
 
That’s useful to know but I think that my box (DS560) as the split charging is not part of the control box. On mine it’s done via the SBB-100 unit.👍

Ian
Hi Ian. Would the victron not pick up on the voltage increase from the starter battery? Ive now gone over to full Lithium and thats what mine does (photonic universe) albeit from the small slave I've added in because my starter battery is 24v.

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Hi Ian. Would the victron not pick up on the voltage increase from the starter battery? Ive now gone over to full Lithium and thats what mine does (photonic universe) albeit from the small slave I've added in because my starter battery is 24v.
Ours worked quite well on that setting for 99% of the time. Occasionaly if we turned on the main charger, and the CBE system turned on the max 6amp
That’s useful to know but I think that my box (DS560) as the split charging is not part of the control box. On mine it’s done via the SBB-100 unit.👍

Ian

trickle to the cab battery, the Orion would kick in and defeat the purpose. I guess I could have increased the thresholds etc, but since there was a convenient source for the D+ signal in our DS470, even supplied with a spare cable to connect to whatever, we used that. Seems to work very reliably.

Does the SBB-100 have a D+ you can check?
 
I suspect that you are correct. Previously, ie before I fitted the XS50, the charging process was via the SBB-100 which I have ‘removed’. However, I discovered that the engine battery voltage was no longer being displayed on my control panel so I have reconnected the SBB-100 but without the B2 connection being made. This has resolved the loss of the engine battery status indication.
The CBE distribution unit usually takes the D+ from the B2 wire from the SB-100. Did you connect the B2 feed the the B1 post in the SB-100 to bypass it or is the B2 wire disconnected now?
 
Searched through the workshop manual for the daily and can't find a reference for D+ fuse - I wonder if it uses a simulated D+ gained from the BCM detects a charge or something?

Modern stuff is so complicated...
 
Hi Ian. Would the victron not pick up on the voltage increase from the starter battery? Ive now gone over to full Lithium and thats what mine does (photonic universe) albeit from the small slave I've added in because my starter battery is 24v.

The Victron works fine (via voltage increase detection) but my issue is that on disconnecting the SBB-100 I have lost the D+ signal and, consequently, the fridge is now in alarm.

The SBB-100 seems to be a little bit more than a split charge/voltage sensitive relay.

Ian
 
Found this and if you translate it says 23 is the d+ output for fridge and step
There’s nothing connected to those male spades and, out of interest, I’ve measured between them all and there’s nothing there.
Does the SBB-100 have a D+ you can check?
The version that I have is slightly different but there is a D+ present on pin 4. So far as I can see (it disappears into a loom) it doesn’t go up to the DS560 box so can only assume that it comes from up front near the engine.
IMG_2414.webp


The CBE distribution unit usually takes the D+ from the B2 wire from the SB-100.
Wouldn’t that mean that the D+ signal would always be present because post B2 is always connected to the leisure +’ve? Clearly, a charge signal would only be present when the SBB-100 detected that the engine was running and closed the relay within the unit but the post would always see the leisure battery voltage irrespective of whether the engine was running or not.

Did you connect the B2 feed the the B1 post in the SB-100 to bypass it or is the B2 wire disconnected now?
Currently the B2 post has nothing connected to it. Originally my thinking, perhaps naively, was that I would simply be replacing the SBB-100 with the Victron XS. However, I realised that the onboard display for the engine battery used the SBB-100 to send a signal to the display so I reconnected a 12V engine battery feed to post B1 and that restored the battery indication.

I wonder if it uses a simulated D+ gained from the BCM detects a charge or something?
BCM?
So pins 2 and 3 are both dead?
See earlier comment above.

Thanks for all your inputs but it is a bit of a puzzle. 🤔

Ian
 
There’s nothing connected to those male spades and, out of interest, I’ve measured between them all and there’s nothing there.

The version that I have is slightly different but there is a D+ present on pin 4. So far as I can see (it disappears into a loom) it doesn’t go up to the DS560 box so can only assume that it comes from up front near the engine.
View attachment 984081


Wouldn’t that mean that the D+ signal would always be present because post B2 is always connected to the leisure +’ve? Clearly, a charge signal would only be present when the SBB-100 detected that the engine was running and closed the relay within the unit but the post would always see the leisure battery voltage irrespective of whether the engine was running or not.


Currently the B2 post has nothing connected to it. Originally my thinking, perhaps naively, was that I would simply be replacing the SBB-100 with the Victron XS. However, I realised that the onboard display for the engine battery used the SBB-100 to send a signal to the display so I reconnected a 12V engine battery feed to post B1 and that restored the battery indication.


BCM?

See earlier comment above.

Thanks for all your inputs but it is a bit of a puzzle. 🤔

Ian
Iveco's Body control module, I think that's where the "bodybuilders/converters" interface/connection points come from. Anyhow, cant see a fuse!

On yours the start battery conection/signal is on 35/pin 2. and looking at linertreff posts, d+ input seems to come in to the DS on a red 3pin on pin 3. in the SBB100 "bussmodule" there seems to be a white 6pin with pin 4 being an ignition on signal, so I guess thats what supplies the DS560.

All very different (and more sophisticated) than mine, so above my paygrade. Sorry to be of no help!
 
On yours the start battery conection/signal is on 35/pin 2
There is a red 3 pin plug but pin 2 has no wire attached.
d+ input seems to come in to the DS on a red 3pin on pin 3
I’ve just checked this but no joy there (but that may be because of the underlying issue tgat I have. I’ll check it again once I’ve resolved the problem.

in the SBB100 "bussmodule" there seems to be a white 6pin with pin 4 being an ignition on signal,
Yes, I have confirmed that pin 4 is a D+ feed.

so I guess thats what supplies the DS560.
I think that’s actually the main feed in, rather than out.

Sorry to be of no help!

On the contrary, your input has been helpful and much appreciated. 👍

I’ve been in touch with nigelivy and I think the way forward is to incorporate an additional relay as discussed elsewhere. I’ll report back in due course.

Ian
 
dn’t that mean that the D+ signal would always be present because post B2 is always connected to the leisure +’ve? Clearly, a charge signal would only be present when the SBB-100 detected that the engine was running and closed the relay within the unit but the post would always see the leisure battery voltage irrespective of whether the engine was running or not.


Currently the B2 post has nothing connected to it. Originally my thinking, perhaps naively, was that I would simply be replacing the SBB-100 with the Victron XS. However, I realised that the onboard display for the engine battery used the SBB-100 to send a signal to the display so I reconnected a 12V engine battery feed to post B1 and that restored the battery indication.
The CBE separator is normally a simple relay that closes when the ignition is on and joins the B1 starter and B2 leisure batteries. Some of their separators also have a 2nd relay to allow the starter to be trickle charged on EHU but not sure that the SBB-100 allows that. When the ignition is on the relay closes and the distribution unit receives the D+ signal. The smaller connections normally just provide the voltage feed for the display panel.
It may be worth reconnecting the B2 wire at the SBB-100 unit to give a D+ signal to the distribution unit. It may need a bit if head scratching to see how that affects the new B2B
 
The CBE separator is normally a simple relay that closes when the ignition is on and joins the B1 starter and B2 leisure batteries.
Agreed. In terms of providing a charge to the leisure battery, that’s exactly what it does.👍

Some of their separators also have a 2nd relay to allow the starter to be trickle charged on EHU but not sure that the SBB-100 allows that.
I don’t think this one does (unless it’s a micro-relay hiding on the board).

IMG_0116.webp


When the ignition is on the relay closes and the distribution unit receives the D+ signal.
I agree that the relay operates when the alternator is running and feeds the alternator voltage from post B1 through to post B2, and onwards to +’ve busbar (feeding all the leisure loads including the DS560) but that’s not a D+ feed.

The smaller connections normally just provide the voltage feed for the display panel.
The two smaller connectors provide a D+ signal (on the orange wire at the top left) and indication signals to the display panel in the habitation area (for engine battery voltage and a charge indicator) from the connector at the top right.
It may be worth reconnecting the B2 wire at the SBB-100 unit to give a D+ signal to the distribution unit.

If I reconnect the B2 post then I will have the output from the Orion XS and the output from the split charge in parallel with one another. The reason for fitting the Orion XS is to prevent LiFePO4 batteries from being connected directly to the alternator which would be the case if I reconnected the B2 post.

Ian

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