Consequences of overstaying in the EU

[peterc10]

I suspect Shamima Begum as an example, would beg to differ.

That is a different matter. She was a citizen but had it removed, so is no longer is a UK citizen. Unlikely to happen to funsters, as I can't see many of us running off to Syria to join ISIS and then helping to wage war against the UK. .

 

[nicholsong]

Geoff
I accept that the fact that I had visited UK demonstrates that I must have had a passport acceptable to UK immigration, but if it had been lost/stolen/left at my aunty's would not stop me re-entering Schengen on my ID, demonstrating my residence.

Agreed, but you should not be able to exit the UK on a Polish ID card, as you would have needed a passport to enter and therefore should have a passport to exit.
Although as you can enter the EU with an EU ID card you might get away with it.
(An American acquaintance managed to enter France with a letter from his Mum saying she had his passport in Paris)

I do not understand the 'one of ours'

If you are travelling on a UK passport (for example), both to enter the country and in theory exit the country, and someting goes wrong, an accident, hospital admission, theft, accusation of wrongdoing etc. Then the country of the passport entry is the one that will take responsibility. If however you have left on one passport and arrived on another then two countries may have responsibility. Both will then disown you, as 'not one of ours'.

To use one classic example. Terry Waite and Brian Keenan who were hostages in Lebanon for several years.
Waite had travelled on a UK passport, so the FO stepped in and did their best to get him released.

Keenan, despite being British had travelled on an Irish passport, so the FO did nothing and left it to the Irish to sort it out. Hence he came back years after Terry Waite

Where you have a choice, travel on the 'best' passport for the occasion, but never mix and match on a single trip.

I suspect you have not read my posts correctly.
I would exit and re-enter France with my Polish ID card. I would enter UK and leave on my UK passport.

I am aUK citizen with a UK passport, I am a resident of Portugal with biometric ID, or will be when the Portuguese SEF get their ***** into gear, I need the UK passport to enter the UK, I need the Portuguese ID to enter the Schengen area, what's wrong with mixing?

That is the only way to do it as one cannot enter the UK now on an EU ID.
Equally one cannot re-enter Schengen on a UK passport without becoming subject to the 90/180 day rule which is not applicable to me when I return to Poland for an unlimited time. Entry by ID is the only legal way to do that. If I entered on a UK passport and stayed in Poland beyond 90 days when I left Schengen again I would show as an UK overstayer.

Therefore mix and match is legally necessary to comply.

I think some UK resident contributors have not seen this subject from a UK passport holder resident in an EU country, but not holding an EU passport, only an ID.

Geoff

 

[Brains]

Completely different scenario. She has the option of taking other citizenship. You cannot have your national citizenship rescinded in the UK unless there is the option of the person being entitled to another.

Her (now British) parents originally held Bangladesh nationality.
She was born in the UK, held a UK passport and has never been to Bangladesh.
The Bangladeshi's have stated she is not entitled to a Bangladeshi passport even if she applies.

I agree she is a thoroughly unpleasant but possibly remorseful terrorist, (having lost 3 children though malnutrition and a Dutch husband killed, all before she was 20) but she is the problem of the UK to deal with, not to try to fob her off on anyone else.

Pertaining to this thread, she was travelling on her elder sisters stolen UK passport.

The UK Court of Appeal have noted that should she turn up in the UK, then the UK would not be able to send her anywhere else unless another country wanted her extradited, and as her crimes were not committed in any recognised country (It was the ISIS Caliphate at the time) it means that in theory she would go free in the UK (in theory, although I'll bet she would not)

 

[Brains]

That is a different matter. She was a citizen but had it removed, so is no longer is a UK citizen. Unlikely to happen to funsters, as I can't see many of us running off to Syria to join ISIS and then helping to wage war against the UK. .

Thousands of members of our parents generation headed off to Spain for the summer
To fight for the International Brigades.
The UK Government of the day also wanted to strip them of their passports.

 

[Raul]

Using the Terry Waite example above.
If it all goes horribly wrong, who do you expect to come to your rescue ? UK, Portugal or the EU ?

But in a previous post here, says the stamp will be void on uk passport if you have Eu residency? We are purely referring uk-shengen and Eu, no other territories.

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[Kevin R]

I’ve met British motorhomers in Portugal who didn’t experience any problems receiving a residency permit. This might be a good idea to avoid future problems.

 

[MandP]

I am totally confused as to what we can and cannot do. We are permanent residents in Cyprus, pay tax, use the Nationsl Health system etc been here 19 years and it is our only residence.Cyprus is not a Schengen country.We have a piece of paper here , an MEU3, this gives us the right to permanent residency.I wonder how we sit when we travel in Europe,any info we would be very grateful. Thanks Pam

 

[gus-lopez]

I am totally confused as to what we can and cannot do. We are permanent residents in Cyprus, pay tax, use the Nationsl Health system etc been here 19 years and it is our only residence.Cyprus is not a Schengen country.We have a piece of paper here , an MEU3, this gives us the right to permanent residency.I wonder how we sit when we travel in Europe,any info we would be very grateful. Thanks Pam

If you have a MEU residence document​

If you registered as a resident before 1 January 2021, you will have a MEU1 or MEU3 residence document. Your non-EU family members will have a MEU2. You can exchange your MEU residence document for the MUKW biometric Withdrawal Agreement residence document.

from here.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-cyprus


Beneficiaries of the WA have the right to apply for the new type of residence document based on Article 18(4) as of 1 January 2021 with no deadline. UK nationals and their family members can submit their application at the Local Immigration Offices and at the Civil Registry and Migration Department by booking an appointment.


Those who hold a valid residence permit issued under the EU Free Movement Directive will only need to submit a valid passport as proof of identity in their new application for the beneficiaries of the WA.

from here:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/...l-residence-schemes-each-eu-country_en#cyprus

Cyprus has a 'declatory' scehme same as spain & requires nothing except swopping from one type to another & you should end up with the plastic id card showing'permanent' & valid for either 5 years or 10 ,depending on how long you had been resident before .over 5 years you will get a 10 year card.

 

[berni109]

MandP my understanding of your position is that you can reside in Cyprus but that gives you no rights within the wider eu.
Travel within the rest of the eu is restricted to that of a UK passport holder.
Since you have lived in Cyprus for a long time u could apply for citizenship which would get u a Cypriot passport and the rights accruing to any other eu passport holder. You can have a UK and Cypriot passport.
Just my understanding but you could try to get an appointment with immigration for a definitive answer. (Best of luck with that I have been trying to get an appointment for months)

 

[2657]

I’ve met British motorhomers in Portugal who didn’t experience any problems receiving a residency permit. This might be a good idea to avoid future problems.

That was then, not so easy now.
Things changed on 01/01/21, I might have to pay another visit to Coventry if I mention why!

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[peterc10]

That was then, not so easy now.
Things changed on 01/01/21, I might have to pay another visit to Coventry if I mention why!

Do you take the lovely Grace on your avatar when you are visiting Coventry. Would have been worthwhile then, but not sure now as she has not worn well, but then neither have I.

 

[jumar]

That was then, not so easy now.
Things changed on 01/01/21, I might have to pay another visit to Coventry if I mention why!

Go on say it....I have relatives in Coventry who would put you up....,

 

[2657]

Do you take the lovely Grace on your avatar when you are visiting Coventry. Would have been worthwhile then, but not sure now as she has not worn well, but then neither have I.

Age has taken it's toll on us all from those far off youthful days, some more than others

I try not to look at present day pictures of my youthful fantasies.....spoils the dream, though I did see a picture of the now not so lovely Grace a few years ago, an image that I try to forget!.........Is that ageist?

 

[peterc10]

Age has taken it's toll on us all from those far off youthful days, some more than others

I try not to look at present day pictures of my youthful fantasies.....spoils the dream, though I did see a picture of the now not so lovely Grace a few years ago, an image that I try to forget!.........Is that ageist?

Jane (Fonda), another one I lusted after, has worn well, but I suspect she has had the builders in a lot. Not sure she can close her eyes now. But just the thought of Barbarella makes my vision blurred for a while.

 

[MandP]

Thank you Gus and Berni,
It is simple here in Cyprus to change from paper to card with our residence paper MEU 3 to MUKW and we will do it in the next couple of months. I think what I am trying to say is this, please forgive me if I wasn’t clear and am still not clear!
Pre Brexit, our understanding was that we could only stay for 90 days in Spain after which we must let the authorities know and I am not sure what happened after that. However, after say 88 days we could move to another EU country and so on and be allowed to stay in Europe for longer than the 2 x 90 days now allowed if living in the U.K. If we exchange our ME3 for the MUKW and get the card are we allowed to move from Eu country to EU country and be in Europe more more than 2x 90 in any one year?
We can apply for Citizenship and get a Cyprus but it takes literally years.We have friends that applied more than 3 years ago and they are still waiting.

We will be starting and our EU trips in the U.K. as we fly in , see our children and then do the reverse before coming home to Cyprus.
Many thanks Pam

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[nicholsong]

That was then, not so easy now.
Things changed on 01/01/21, I might have to pay another visit to Coventry if I mention why!

That date was when the Withdrawal Agreement(WA) expired, not the other word, so you are safe.

I think a lot of people were at the back of the class and not paying attention when that date slipped past them before applying, although here in Poland one could apply until 30th June 2021, because they would not accept applications under the WA until 01/01/21, on the basis the rules could have changed. Anyway I applied in Jan '21 and got my residency and WA-type ID card OK.

Geoff

 

[2657]

That date was when the Withdrawal Agreement(WA) expired, not the other word, so you are safe.

I think a lot of people were at the back of the class and not paying attention when that date slipped past them before applying, although here in Poland one could apply until 30th June 2021, because they would not accept applications under the WA until 01/01/21, on the basis the rules could have changed. Anyway I applied in Jan '21 and got my residency and WA-type ID card OK.

Geoff

I hope the withdrawal agreement hasn't expired, my new residency document guarantees my rights under it.

Surely that was the day that the withdrawal agreement came fully into force?

 

[nicholsong]

I hope the withdrawal agreement hasn't expired, my new residency document guarantees my rights under it.

Surely that was the day that the withdrawal agreement came fully into force?

Sorry I expressed that badly - 01/01/21 was when one's rights to apply under it expired and one had to prove residence in a EU country prior to that date.

If one was successful in achieving those rights then they do indeed continue, as do mine, and all others who got their WA new IDs. I think that those UK passport holders with EU residency and IDs before that date could apply later to have a new ID under the WA issued for a period beyond that date, but I think the expiry date for applications varied from country to country.

Geoff

 

[Koodoo]

Wifey and I are in Spain at the moment, me on an Irish passport her on a British. Her passport was stamped on the way in, should be interesting what happens on the way out of Schengen. I'll make sure we don't overstay in any country but will be around six months before we leave.

I'm a British passport holder and my wife has an Irish passport, we're planning a trip to Europe next week for as long as possible. Are you saying that you can spend longer than 90 days in EU because your spouse has an EU passport? I'd really love an answer to this as I'm getting conflicting information.

 

[Skez]

I'm a British passport holder and my wife has an Irish passport, we're planning a trip to Europe next week for as long as possible. Are you saying that you can spend longer than 90 days in EU because your spouse has an EU passport? I'd really love an answer to this as I'm getting conflicting information.

From what I've been able to ascertain, yes you can as long as you remain in company with your wife (i.e. travel together). I looked at this quite carefully some time ago but I've looked at so much stuff around these issues I'm afraid I can't give you the source.

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[Orion]

I'm a British passport holder and my wife has an Irish passport, we're planning a trip to Europe next week for as long as possible. Are you saying that you can spend longer than 90 days in EU because your spouse has an EU passport? I'd really love an answer to this as I'm getting conflicting information.

It’s included in the reply from the Europe Direct Contact Centre helpfully posted in post #41 above:

“However, if you are travelling with your wife to a Schengen country, or joining her in a Schengen country, the 90/180 days limitation does not apply. Accordingly, any stays in the Schengen area together with her will not be taken into account when you travel again on your own. Please be aware, however, that in this case you might need to have documentation to show when you were travelling with her and when you were not.

For further information, we recommend that you contact the authorities of the country you would like to travel to: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/embassies/index_en.htm

You can also find additional information here: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/brexit-travel-documents/index_en.htm”

Luckily my wife is also the holder of an Eire passport and we intend to take advantage of the freedom to spend more than the 90/180 restriction in the EU at some point. I think it would be prudent to carry a copy of our marriage certificate with us, along with documentation confirming joint bookings etc.

 

[Koodoo]

It’s included in the reply from the Europe Direct Contact Centre helpfully posted in post #41 above:

“However, if you are travelling with your wife to a Schengen country, or joining her in a Schengen country, the 90/180 days limitation does not apply. Accordingly, any stays in the Schengen area together with her will not be taken into account when you travel again on your own. Please be aware, however, that in this case you might need to have documentation to show when you were travelling with her and when you were not.

For further information, we recommend that you contact the authorities of the country you would like to travel to: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/embassies/index_en.htm

You can also find additional information here: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/brexit-travel-documents/index_en.htm”

Luckily my wife is also the holder of an Eire passport and we intend to take advantage of the freedom to spend more than the 90/180 restriction in the EU at some point. I think it would be prudent to carry a copy of our marriage certificate with us, along with documentation confirming joint bookings etc.

That's brilliant information, thank you!

 

[Chris n Patrick]

Yes that's what I thought, but certainly here in Portugal police have fined people for minor road traffic offences, demanded cash, and taken them to cash point to get it! It's not uncommon, and in fact it's referred to by expats as the police christmas bonus. Where the cash ends up is anyone's guess !

Similar in Spain. As he put the cash in his pocket I asked for a receipt. Should have seen his face

 

[Garry - June]

I’ve met British motorhomers in Portugal who didn’t experience any problems receiving a residency permit. This might be a good idea to avoid future problems.

so have i...unfortunately quite a few saw it as just a way of circumnavigating Brexit without understanding all the other implications that came with it...ie Exchanging driving licenses... matriculating their vans to Portuguese plates etc etc... the result being that if they get pulled over and wave their Residency permits at the GNR i imagine the first question they will ask is "if you are resident why are you still driving around on a UK registered vehicle and UK license".. which makes that bit of paper pretty worthless..

 

[Garry - June]

I'm a British passport holder and my wife has an Irish passport, we're planning a trip to Europe next week for as long as possible. Are you saying that you can spend longer than 90 days in EU because your spouse has an EU passport? I'd really love an answer to this as I'm getting conflicting information.

I've discovered my wife is 25% Irish... (thanks granny) so now going through the process to get her a passport.... its actually quite easy to do however i have heard there is quite a backlog.... but yes once gained then as long as you travel together the 90 day rule does not apply.. you are not supposed to sit longer than 90 days in one country without registering with the authorities...however that is a rule that has always been in place even before Brexit....despite some thinking they had a god given right to sit somewhere abroad as long as they liked..

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[Emmit]

Just looked at the No. of peeps looking at this thread.
80+ paid up Funsters and over 100 FLT's

In one way its good to know that MHF is so well regarded.

 

[Gillygrim]

Off on a tangent (as usual, sorry) - Can anyone give an answer to this puzzle, please ? I was married to an Irish man from 1964 to 1970, when we divorced. (He has since passed away). Both my daughters, one of whom has lived in Eire for many years, could therefore presumably hold Irish passports if they wished. My grandfather, born in 1884 was Maltese and my grandmother, born in 1883 was quarter Irish/half Maltese/quarter British. Does this give me any bargaining chip to obtain an Irish or Maltese passport ? Also, despite visiting Eire many, many times pre-B***** I never took my (UK) passport and it was never requested. Has that now changed ? If anyone can work through this lot I'd be most grateful !!

 

[Garry - June]

Off on a tangent (as usual, sorry) - Can anyone give an answer to this puzzle, please ? I was married to an Irish man from 1964 to 1970, when we divorced. (He has since passed away). Both my daughters, one of whom has lived in Eire for many years, could therefore presumably hold Irish passports if they wished. My grandfather, born in 1884 was Maltese and my grandmother, born in 1883 was quarter Irish/half Maltese/quarter British. Does this give me any bargaining chip to obtain an Irish or Maltese passport ? Also, despite visiting Eire many, many times pre-B***** I never took my (UK) passport and it was never requested. Has that now changed ? If anyone can work through this lot I'd be most grateful !!

Reading that in my opinion (though i may be wrong) the critical thing would be where your Grandmother was born.. If in Ireland then yes you can get an Irish passport.. i take it when you were married you didn't live in Ireland.. There are lots of guides covering this subject for Ireland and Malta online if you google search them..

 

[Pirahna]

Some more info on my plans. I have an Irish passport, wifey is travelling on a British passport. Although the 90 day rule for Schengen doesn't apply to us, there is a 90 day rule for each country, if you overstay and get caught then you're liable for all sorts of crap like tax, vehicle import duty, that sort of thing. If we were both using EU passport then I wouldn't be worried, but as I have no idea what's going to happen when we leave the EU then I'll play by the rule book. We're in Spain at the moment, out 90 days are up on April 5th. We will be in France and exit back to the UK from there. The rough plan at the moment is to spend a month or so in France giving us plenty of time to travel back through to either Spain or Italy for the summer.

 

[Orion]

Some more info on my plans. I have an Irish passport, wifey is travelling on a British passport. Although the 90 day rule for Schengen doesn't apply to us, there is a 90 day rule for each country, if you overstay and get caught then you're liable for all sorts of crap like tax, vehicle import duty, that sort of thing.

With open borders within the Schengen zone how would anyone in authority be able to prove that a certain amount of ‘border hopping’ between countries hadn’t already taken place prior to being stopped?

With my wife on an Eire passport and myself U.K. I have a direct interest in anything like this.

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