choosing a mains charger

[monzer]

Loads of choices popping up for Victron chargers. I'm looking to change mine for something a bit more suitable for 2 125Ah Lithium batteries. I'll be getting it wired through my EBL99.

Trying to get my head round all the different models out there.

Can anyone point me in the direction for the most suitable?

 

[tkk]

Just an open question as I am doing something similar. Why thro thro the EBL and not direct to battery.? You probably need a 30A charger. Ive just got the Victron ip22 30 Amp and I have some doubts whether my distribution units, CBE470 ,wiring would handle it as the present charger is 22A max. I am not that knowledgeable on the particular distribution units but my feeling was that direct to battery might be better. hopefully more experienced members will be along
tk

 

[monzer]

Just an open question as I am doing something similar. Why thro thro the EBL and not direct to battery.? You probably need a 30A charger. Ive just got the Victron ip22 30 Amp and I have some doubts whether my distribution units, CBE470 ,wiring would handle it as the present charger is 22A max. I am not that knowledgeable on the particular distribution units but my feeling was that direct to battery might be better. hopefully more experienced members will be along
tk

I thought maybe if I missed the EBL then I could possibly be bypassing some features like the onboard charging level indicator.

I also thought I could go less than 30amp for a new charger as when I will be on hook up it's more likely to be on for well over 24 hours so wouldn't need a huge load going in to it therefore my existing wiring would be okay.

That's my thinking at the moment anyway.

 

[autorouter]

Trying to get my head round all the different models out there.

They are aimed at different markets. Boats often have three separate batteries, so a Skylla is good for that. If you will be hooking up to either American 120V 60Hz or European 230V 50Hz, then a Centaur will take both. The popular ones for motorhomes are the Blue Smart IP22, IP65 or IP67 versions. The IP number is the environmental protection. An IP22 will complain if exposed to a light shower, but an IP65 won't bat an eyelid if you chuck a bucket of water over it. They are all 'smart' chargers, ie multi-stage intelligent chargers. Victron calls them 'Smart' if they have Bluetooth and will communicate with a phone app.

 

[Tombola]

IP22 direct tt battery, and let the bluetooth tell you the charge rate etc etc (and the light son the charger)

the problem with having a smaller charger is it will be working flat out for a long time with 250ah of batteries, the victron being 30 ah is more than 10% so is better than a 22amp, you could alwways go higher than 30amp as lithium will take it.

AKAIK, the onboard charge level will still show as it reads the batts.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[activecampers]

You want an intelligent one that can also run as a power supply, so happily cut in when the battery is full and there is a load that needs fulfilling.
Some brands can't cope with charging whilst being "used" despite being caravan chargers, and I've seen 15+v being thrown out!!

You don't need big, or 30A, as really - with 250AH, if you are on hookup it will be (at worst) evening till morning, so 15h minimum - so a 17A charger would get you to full from flat with ease. The smaller the charger, the less heat and the Victron Bluesmart IP67 17A charger has passive cooling so is silent. Works perfectly, configurable with lithium etc. Its happy to work flat out from flat to full - I pushed it when testing our lithium setup from 0-100 a few times and it never got hot nor missed a beat. Round about £150.

I did use a different make/model but swapped as the victron one just works. (That said, 180 nights away in this van, been on hookup <10 nights lol. Hey ho)

 

[tkk]

Slight digression. Victron installation instructions say for vehicle installation “connect - output to chassis earth (rather than to LB -,
Does anyone know any reason?
In their B2B installation they favour battery terminal - to Battery terminal- rather than chassis earth. ?

 

[monzer]

So I guess I'd really need to find out what size of charger my current wiring could support. Anyone know what Hymer were using in 2002? I've a B524 on a Fiat.

I like the sound of your IP67 17A activecampers I'd be as well going for something silent.

While we are at it. The fitters are rewiring the B2B that they fitted so that the split charge is disconnected. What will they be doing to make sure my fridge still works of cab battery while driving?

**edit: Just realised I'm talking nonsense. As stated above maybe I am best just wiring the new charger straight to batteries. Any disadvantages doing this?

 

[activecampers]

You could wire the charger direct to battery (fused on +ve). Pretty much what we've done.
B2B yes, will be intelligent and direct to battery - not really a great solution for fridges.
Can you leave the old split-charge in place and connected, just to VB & Fridge and just not connect back to LB? Or iff not, just have KEY+/IGN+ or D+ relay with separate wiring for the fridge?

(No idea what wiring/system exists so dont know if its possible)

 

[activecampers]

Slight digression. Victron installation instructions say for vehicle installation “connect - output to chassis earth (rather than to LB -,
Does anyone know any reason?
In their B2B installation they favour battery terminal - to Battery terminal- rather than chassis earth. ?

Does not usually matter, but chassis is generally a better conductor than a wire and guarentees the body is earthed. Personally I have our B2B + 240v + solar going direct the LB (shunt) , which is also connected to van chassis. (All in the same vicinity to works for us...) Over a 5m distance chassis will work better than wire.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[monzer]

You could wire the charger direct to battery (fused on +ve). Pretty much what we've done.
B2B yes, will be intelligent and direct to battery - not really a great solution for fridges.
Can you leave the old split-charge in place and connected, just to VB & Fridge and just not connect back to LB? Or iff not, just have KEY+/IGN+ or D+ relay with separate wiring for the fridge?

(No idea what wiring/system exists so dont know if its possible)

A bit over my head unfortunately. The fitters seem to know what they need to do. I just wish they'd asked me first time around if I wanted the split charge relay connected or not. I presumed with me wanting a B2B they'd make sure it was giving me as much power as was possible.

 

[activecampers]

A bit over my head unfortunately. The fitters seem to know what they need to do. I just wish they'd asked me first time around if I wanted the split charge relay connected or not. I presumed with me wanting a B2B they'd make sure it was giving me as much power as was possible.

Yes, B2B is great for your batteries.

But your fridge +12v (that connects when the engine is running) may be linked to the old split charge relay. The B2B generally does not have an equivalent (happy to be updated if things have changed) so no way to control the engine-running feed to the fridge.

Just ask your installers - how is the fridge being powered when the engine runs?

(FYI: B2B is connected to both engine and habitation batteries at all times, and is either told the engine is running by a D+ signal, or guesses based on voltage - should be on signal on smart alternator vans). The connections between are intelligent and the voltage/current managed. No extra output that connects fridge to engine and nowhere that gets disconnected when engine stops

Split charge will do similar, either on engine running signal or voltage, then "simply" connects them together with a relay (aka switch). This can connect both the fridge AND the leisure battery, and (importantly) disconnect when engine stops. Hence fridge is physically switched on/off when engine running)


Devil is in detail - your fridge may be wired to the LB only and do its own switching from a D+ signal? No idea - can't see it from my seat

Installers will know. (if they are any good )

 

[AdrianChen]

Just an open question as I am doing something similar. Why thro thro the EBL and not direct to battery.? You probably need a 30A charger. Ive just got the Victron ip22 30 Amp and I have some doubts whether my distribution units, CBE470 ,wiring would handle it as the present charger is 22A max. I am not that knowledgeable on the particular distribution units but my feeling was that direct to battery might be better. hopefully more experienced members will be along
tk

My carthago fitted chargers were 2 x 16amp, so 32amp total, these were wired through the ds470 so I think it should be fine.

 

[autorouter]

With the EBL99, like all EBLs, the fridge supply is a dedicated wire, separate from the split charge feed. There should be two fuses near the starter battery, one 50A for the split charge supply and one 20A for the fridge supply. The 50A wire goes into the big terminals at the back of the EBL, the 20A wire goes into the front on one of the connectors, the 5-way one. So the fridge wiring should not be affected.

 

[tkk]

A bit over my head unfortunately. The fitters seem to know what they need to do. I just wish they'd asked me first time around if I wanted the split charge relay connected or not. I presumed with me wanting a B2B they'd make sure it was giving me as much power as was possible

My carthago fitted chargers were 2 x 16amp, so 32amp total, these were wired through the ds470 so I think it should be fine.

Thanks. Did the paperwork they gave you have a DS470 manual or even a numbered diagram of DS470 with id. of components. Frankia didn’t so I’m a bit lost finding D+ etc. If you have is it possible to have a screenshot of these? I have tried but not readily available
tk

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[AdrianChen]

Thanks. Did the paperwork they gave you have a DS470 manual or even a numbered diagram of DS470 with id. of components. Frankia didn’t so I’m a bit lost finding D+ etc. If you have is it possible to have a screenshot of these? I have tried but not readily available
tk

No just a booklet that has no real info. I have an old diagram on my PC at home will send you that tomorrow evening, it's from 2016 though

 

[tkk]

Anything will help, thanks

 

[AdrianChen]

Anything will help, thanks

See your inbox.

 

[gerry mcg]

I went with a 15A Victron IP22 Bluesmart charger, bypassing the EBL119 to charge my 205Ah lithium battery, on the premise its is unlikely in will arrive at a site with Ah in the leisure battery, and 12h charge would give me 180Ah into the battery

 

[paddymcc]

• Tuesday at 3:01 PM
• New
• 
  
• Broken Link Removed
• #8

So I guess I'd really need to find out what size of charger my current wiring could support. Anyone know what Hymer were using in 2002? I've a B524 on a Fiat.

,monzer my Hymer is 206 and has a EBL 101 and a digital display panel. You may have the older panel with the analogue scales?
If I wire my charger through the EBL the voltage and state of charge will be accurate as the current goes through the shunt on the EBL. I don't think the analogue panel shows SOC so that may not be relevant for your set up. The ebl101 can take 18A through the additional charger connections.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[monzer]

• Tuesday at 3:01 PM
• New
• 
  
• Broken Link Removed
• #8

So I guess I'd really need to find out what size of charger my current wiring could support. Anyone know what Hymer were using in 2002? I've a B524 on a Fiat.

,monzer my Hymer is 206 and has a EBL 101 and a digital display panel. You may have the older panel with the analogue scales?
If I wire my charger through the EBL the voltage and state of charge will be accurate as the current goes through the shunt on the EBL. I don't think the analogue panel shows SOC so that may not be relevant for your set up. The ebl101 can take 18A through the additional charger connections.

Is that a shunt that was fitted after manufacture? I have a shunt fitted and it is indeed the older analogue scales (although incredibly accurate) the shunt was another reason I wanted it through the EBL but not entirely sure how it all works.

I'm getting a price at the moment so I'll maybe need to discuss it a bit further. In typical 'me' fashion I've changed my mind a little and now quite fancy getting a little inverter fitted at the same time! That's maybe too much to take on board at the moment though!

 

[paddymcc]

Is that a shunt that was fitted after manufacture? I have a shunt fitted and it is indeed the older analogue scales (although incredibly accurate) the shunt was another reason I wanted it through the EBL but not entirely sure how it all works.

I'm getting a price at the moment so I'll maybe need to discuss it a bit further. In typical 'me' fashion I've changed my mind a little and now quite fancy getting a little inverter fitted at the same time! That's maybe too much to take on board at the moment though!

I'm not familiar with the analogue scales. If they just show voltage they will be accurate but if they depend on a shunt in the EBL ( probably a EBL 99 in your case?) to give SOC or amphours remaining then bypassing the EBL will mean that reading is inaccurate. If you are getting batteries with Bluetooth than you can use this instead as the inbuilt battery BMS will give you an accurate SOC. The problem with lithium and a voltage measurement of SOC is that the voltage doesn't fall in a linear fashion as the SOC drops so may not be that accurate compared to your old lead acid batteries.

 

[monzer]

I'm not familiar with the analogue scales. If they just show voltage they will be accurate but if they depend on a shunt in the EBL ( probably a EBL 99 in your case?) to give SOC or amphours remaining then bypassing the EBL will mean that reading is inaccurate. If you are getting batteries with Bluetooth than you can use this instead as the inbuilt battery BMS will give you an accurate SOC. The problem with lithium and a voltage measurement of SOC is that the voltage doesn't fall in a linear fashion as the SOC drops so may not be that accurate compared to your old lead acid batteries.

The KS energy batteries are in. They are great but I don't think the data via bluetooth is too accurate. They have even said this to me themselves. I seem to have my shunt set up pretty well and this seems to offer the most accurate info so I use this all the time.

To recap the thread, would people recommend going through the EBL or wiring the charger straight to batteries? I think my few remaining brain cells have melted with all this electric talk.

 

[paddymcc]

The KS energy batteries are in. They are great but I don't think the data via bluetooth is too accurate. They have even said this to me themselves. I seem to have my shunt set up pretty well and this seems to offer the most accurate info so I use this all the time.

To recap the thread, would people recommend going through the EBL or wiring the charger straight to batteries? I think my few remaining brain cells have melted with all this electric talk.

Is the shunt an aftermarket fitment such as the Victron smartshunt? If so this is accurate and there is no need to go through the EBL . If you are relying on the EBL shunt you will get more accurate readings going through the EBL but you will be restricted to a charger less than 18A. I think the IP22 has the facility to not output the full current so you maybe could get away with the 20A version rather than the 15A version.

 

[monzer]

Is the shunt an aftermarket fitment such as the Victron smartshunt? If so this is accurate and there is no need to go through the EBL . If you are relying on the EBL shunt you will get more accurate readings going through the EBL but you will be restricted to a charger less than 18A. I think the IP22 has the facility to not output the full current so you maybe could get away with the 20A version rather than the 15A version.

Yeah I fitted a Victron shunt so I guess I could ignore the EBL. Then I could go for a more powerful charger?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[autorouter]

Yeah I fitted a Victron shunt so I guess I could ignore the EBL. Then I could go for a more powerful charger?

If you have a separate shunt like the Victron one then there is no reason to route the charging through the EBL. Route all the charging positives direct to the leisure battery, and the negatives through the external shunt. Use the EBL only for distributing the leisure battery power to the habitation circuits.

The EBL SOC reading will be totally inaccurate, but the EBL just displays the information, it doesn't act on it, so no problem there. The EBL voltage readings will still be accurate. You could then connect whatever charger or inverter you want, direct to the batteries.

 

[gerry mcg]

To recap the thread, would people recommend going through the EBL or wiring the charger straight to batteries? I think my few remaining brain cells have melted with all this electric talk.

I used a wago connector, I got from RS components (I'll find the type) to split the 240 supply from the hookup supply to the EBL kettle lead and I cut the plug off the charger and wired it to the connector.

The connector is a black Male / female connector with the hookup supply going into the female block, and it allows 2 outputs to be wired to the male block. (One to EBL and one to the charger.
I think the Globecar EBL used one of the connectors from the factory.

I left the EBL receiving a 240V power supply, but removed the charging fuse. This way the control panel indicates when the hookup is plugged in, but no charging current is supplied by the EBL.

MY IP22 charger 12v output is wired directly into the output terminals of my B2B, and bypasses the EBL. I utilise the same wiring to charge the batteries as the B2B

 

[monzer]

If you have a separate shunt like the Victron one then there is no reason to route the charging through the EBL. Route all the charging positives direct to the leisure battery, and the negatives through the external shunt. Use the EBL only for distributing the leisure battery power to the habitation circuits.

The EBL SOC reading will be totally inaccurate, but the EBL just displays the information, it doesn't act on it, so no problem there. The EBL voltage readings will still be accurate. You could then connect whatever charger or inverter you want, direct to the batteries.

Okay so that's that decided.

Now, would it be too much trouble to get an inverter fitted while the van is in? It would hardly be getting used apart from the odd microwave use and perhaps a beer machine. Would 250Ah battery set up be fit for a 800w microwave?

 

[gerry mcg]

You can actually see the black connector here (circled in red)
It has the white EBL kettle lead into one of the two available outputs. The other one was not used, so I used it for the charger output.
I think I have a spare M&F Connector if you need one.

 

[monzer]

You can actually see the black connector here (circled in red)
It has the white EBL kettle lead into one of the two available outputs. The other one was not used, so I used it for the charger output.
I think I have a spare M&F Connector if you need one.

View attachment 738555

Thanks but I'm still trying to get my head round your set up. I think I have followed it up until your last sentence about wiring through the B2B

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}