Changing Headlights From LHD To RHD On Relay/Ducato/Boxer With LED DRL

[Wombles]

Thought we should share our experience in case it helps anyone else importing. On the latest model Citroen Relay/Jumper we can confirm that as others had mentioned before that if you try to fit the non LED version of the lights to those with factory fitted LED daylight running lights then you will get an error code come up on the dashboard display! This code can not be removed even by the dealer with the non LED lights in place but is cleared once taken out & the correct ones are fitted.
We understand from both Fiat & Peugeot that this is the same for the Ducato & Boxer models too so it is essential to fit the LED version if that is what it originally came with.
After some crazy quotes from dealers the best priced option we found online were genuine Fiat brand headlights from Coastal Motorhomes https://coastalmotorhomes.co.uk/ at just under £700 delivered well packed next day after we had negotiated a 10% (off net price) Motorhome Fun member discount with code " motorhomefun "

Fiat Ducato Peugeot Boxer Citroen Relay Right Headlight Silver With DRL 14on
31543 £315.37
1 £315.37
Fiat Ducato Peugeot Boxer Citroen Relay Left Headlight Silver With DRL OE 14on
31540 £315.37
1 £315.37

Product Name SKU Price Qty Invoiced Subtotal
Subtotal £630.74
Discount (motorhomefun) -£63.07
Grand Total (Excl.Vat) £578.19
VAT 20% £115.64
Grand Total (Incl.Vat) £693.83

Coastal Motorhomes do lots of other parts (including mirrors), many genuine Fiat brand so will add a separate thread with the Fun discount code. It's worth checking with them that any parts are correct before ordering or to see if they can source a Fiat part not on their website.

 

[Wombles]

Discount thread now posted here https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...e-for-fiat-citroen-peugeot-parts-more.183754/

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Why not just ‘borrow a couple from a friendly van owner for the test only, after all they will be used over there, how many people change units every time they go, after all a second hand van only needs deflectors, what the hell is the difference.

 

[Wombles]

Why not just ‘borrow a couple from a friendly van owner for the test only, after all they will be used over there, how many people change units every time they go, after all a second hand van only needs deflectors, what the hell is the difference.

Have seen that suggestion before but for us we wouldn't risk it as it would probably invalidate any insurance.

 

[gus-lopez]

I knew a farmer who borrowed undamaged lights off of a friend ,each year , just to pass the mot .Then he refitted his old ones

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[jezport]

Can you do it the other way
i.e. upgrade from the headlight with normal DRLs to one with LED DRLs?

 

[gerry mcg]

Can you do it the other way
i.e. upgrade from the headlight with normal DRLs to one with LED DRLs?

i don't think so - IIRC you can only use the DRL version your van came with originally as it is coded into the ECU...

 

[SteveJulesMontycame2]

Thought we should share our experience in case it helps anyone else importing. On the latest model Citroen Relay/Jumper we can confirm that as others had mentioned before that if you try to fit the non LED version of the lights to those with factory fitted LED daylight running lights then you will get an error code come up on the dashboard display! This code can not be removed even by the dealer with the non LED lights in place but is cleared once taken out & the correct ones are fitted.
We understand from both Fiat & Peugeot that this is the same for the Ducato & Boxer models too so it is essential to fit the LED version if that is what it originally came with.
After some crazy quotes from dealers the best priced option we found online were genuine Fiat brand headlights from Coastal Motorhomes https://coastalmotorhomes.co.uk/ at just under £700 delivered well packed next day after we had negotiated a 10% (off net price) Motorhome Fun member discount with code " motorhomefun "

Fiat Ducato Peugeot Boxer Citroen Relay Right Headlight Silver With DRL 14on
31543 £315.37
1 £315.37
Fiat Ducato Peugeot Boxer Citroen Relay Left Headlight Silver With DRL OE 14on
31540 £315.37
1 £315.37

Product Name SKU Price Qty Invoiced Subtotal
Subtotal £630.74
Discount (motorhomefun) -£63.07
Grand Total (Excl.Vat) £578.19
VAT 20% £115.64
Grand Total (Incl.Vat) £693.83

Coastal Motorhomes do lots of other parts (including mirrors), many genuine Fiat brand so will add a separate thread with the Fun discount code. It's worth checking with them that any parts are correct before ordering or to see if they can source a Fiat part not on their website.

We’re just about to import our LHD Adria Matrix (at the end of August) and seeing this now, new as we are to this forum, is perfect timing. I was wondering about fitting the cheaper sidelight version headlights in place of our DRL ones as it’s only for any initial check and future MoT’s but I won’t as I now know they don’t work!

However, one possible cost cutting measure I’m seriously considering is to purchase the DRL headlights that come without the DRL driver/ballast; I would remove the one on our LHD lights and fit it to the RHD light units. Does anyone know if there is any reason why this would not work? I’m assuming the difference between LHD & RHD lights is in the lenses and not the plastic mouldings nor connections where the ballast fits. The price of the lights without the DRL ballast is about £140 cheaper each! The majority of our driving will be in Europe so they won’t be used much, but will be needed. There’s only 2 screws and an electrical connection to undo to change headlights once the bonnet’s open so it’s not difficult to change over for mot etc. Any thoughts?

 

[Deneb]

No idea about chopping and changing bits over, but if you swap the ballast you're still left with a standard dual filament (DRL/parking light) bulb fitting on the non-LED lamp unit and an LED DRL strip on the LED lamp unit which I don't think can be removed?

However, AlfaOBD diagnostic software appears to be capable of reprogramming the body computer to accept the fitment of the LED headlights. I say appears to be, because I have not tried the function, but it is in the programming menu for the X290 body computer and the same software has been proven capable of allowing swaps between traditional and LED headlamp units on RAM trucks in the USA.

I have used AlfaOBD successfully to reprogram the configuration of my uConnect radio and for diagnostic checks and system actuation tests.

The body computer controls the main configuration of the vehicle, which is written to a "proxy file" contained in the unit and distributed as copies to other nodes on the vehicle network to prevent activations and responses of lamps and other units around the vehicle having to queue to send and receive responses to a single node. Fiat's stance is that the proxy configuration for each vehicle is written to the body computer at the factory, and apart from items which are included in configuration menus on the vehicle, i.e. through the "mode" menu or radio, cannot be changed. So dealers are not provided with any facility to change aspects of a vehicle's main configuration through the diagnostic equipment they obtain from Fiat.

There is some merit to that approach in that the factory maintain a record of the factory configuration for each vehicle and in the event of a faulty body computer or other part needing replacement, they have the master record and are able to supply a new unit programmed for the specific vehicle as required.

So you should theoretically be able to change the configuration of your vehicle to accept LED headlamps. You would need to use the programming feature in AlfaOBD to change the content of the proxy file in the body computer and then perform a "proxy alignment" with the same software, which is a follow-up procedure that distributes the new proxy file to the other nodes on the vehicle that maintain copies of it, and ensures that the network configuration is correct.

As with all things software related, there are caveats! Reprogramming the body computer or altering the vehicle configuration outside of the scope allowed by Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen is not supported by the manufacturer and if you mess up, don't expect any support or warranty claim. You should create or record a copy of the current proxy file before making any adjustments so that in the event of any problems you can write the original config back fairly easily. You also need to run a full systems diagnostic check before making any changes, and fix and clear any fault codes and issues which triggered them that may be present on your vehicle before you start, as existing faults can cause the proxi alignment procedure to fail to complete successfully.

You might find the thought of this process too daunting, but I mention it as something that appears (according to the AlfaOBD software menus) to be possible. Certainly I am aware of people having for instance successfully replaced items such as non TFT instrument clusters for TFT versions on other Fiats either using this software, or by hacking the proxy file directly with a text editor after downloading a copy of it and writing it back to the car with MultiEcuScan. In the latter case though, you need to know the specific bits in the file to change - the menu system in AlfaOBD does that for you

 

[SteveJulesMontycame2]

No idea about chopping and changing bits over, but if you swap the ballast you're still left with a standard dual filament (DRL/parking light) bulb fitting on the non-LED lamp unit and an LED DRL strip on the LED lamp unit which I don't think can be removed?

No idea about chopping and changing bits over, but if you swap the ballast you're still left with a standard dual filament (DRL/parking light) bulb fitting on the non-LED lamp unit and an LED DRL strip on the LED lamp unit which I don't think can be removed?

No idea about chopping and changing bits over, but if you swap the ballast you're still left with a standard dual filament (DRL/parking light) bulb fitting on the non-LED lamp unit and an LED DRL strip on the LED lamp unit which I don't think can be removed? However, AlfaOBD diagnostic software appears to be capable of reprogramming the body computer to accept the fitment of the LED headlights. I say appears to be, because I have not tried the function, but it is in the programming menu for the X290 body computer and the same software has been proven capable of allowing swaps between traditional and LED headlamp units on RAM trucks in the USA. I have used AlfaOBD successfully to reprogram the configuration of my uConnect radio and for diagnostic checks and system actuation tests. The body computer controls the main configuration of the vehicle, which is written to a "proxy file" contained in the unit and distributed as copies to other nodes on the vehicle network to prevent activations and responses of lamps and other units around the vehicle having to queue to send and receive responses to a single node. Fiat's stance is that the proxy configuration for each vehicle is written to the body computer at the factory, and apart from items which are included in configuration menus on the vehicle, i.e. through the "mode" menu or radio, cannot be changed. So dealers are not provided with any facility to change aspects of a vehicle's main configuration through the diagnostic equipment they obtain from Fiat. There is some merit to that approach in that the factory maintain a record of the factory configuration for each vehicle and in the event of a faulty body computer or other part needing replacement, they have the master record and are able to supply a new unit programmed for the specific vehicle as required. So you should theoretically be able to change the configuration of your vehicle to accept LED headlamps. You would need to use the programming feature in AlfaOBD to change the content of the proxy file in the body computer and then perform a "proxy alignment" with the same software, which is a follow-up procedure that distributes the new proxy file to the other nodes on the vehicle that maintain copies of it, and ensures that the network configuration is correct. As with all things software related, there are caveats! Reprogramming the body computer or altering the vehicle configuration outside of the scope allowed by Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen is not supported by the manufacturer and if you mess up, don't expect any support or warranty claim. You should create or record a copy of the current proxy file before making any adjustments so that in the event of any problems you can write the original config back fairly easily. You also need to run a full systems diagnostic check before making any changes, and fix and clear any fault codes and issues which triggered them that may be present on your vehicle before you start, as existing faults can cause the proxi alignment procedure to fail to complete successfully. You might find the thought of this process too daunting, but I mention it as something that appears (according to the AlfaOBD software menus) to be possible. Certainly I am aware of people having for instance successfully replaced items such as non TFT instrument clusters for TFT versions on other Fiats either using this software, or by hacking the proxy file directly with a text editor after downloading a copy of it and writing it back to the car with MultiEcuScan. In the latter case though, you need to know the specific bits in the file to change - the menu system in AlfaOBD does that for you

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[Lenny HB]

it’s only for any initial check and future MoT’s but I won’t as I now know they don’t work!

Only need them for the initial check.
LHD headlamps with beam benders are acceptable for the MOT.

If you are going to leave beam benders on for use in the UK it is best to buy headlamp protectors and fit them to the protectors as the adhesive migrates into the plastic.

 

[SteveJulesMontycame2]

Sorry about the above repetition, phone don’t seem to like this!

Thanks for the comprehensive post. Our LHD 2017 lights are filament bulbs with LED DRLs and have a ballast/driver for the DRLs mounted on the body of the lights. Apparently this can be unscrewed and fitted to a body with filament bulbs and led drls. I was wanting to know if anyone had done this, from LHD to RHD light units, both with filament bulbs and led DRLs. There’s no reason why not?

 

[SteveJulesMontycame2]

Only need them for the initial check.
LHD headlamps with beam benders are acceptable for the MOT.

But not for importation - they specify on the paperwork that beam benders are not acceptable at this stage

 

[Lenny HB]

But not for importation - they specify on the paperwork that beam benders are not acceptable at this stage

Isn't that what I said.

 

[Deneb]

Sorry about the above repetition, phone don’t seem to like this!

Thanks for the comprehensive post. Our LHD 2017 lights are filament bulbs with LED DRLs and have a ballast/driver for the DRLs mounted on the body of the lights. Apparently this can be unscrewed and fitted to a body with filament bulbs and led drls. I was wanting to know if anyone had done this, from LHD to RHD light units, both with filament bulbs and led DRLs. There’s no reason why not?

Can't see why not, but surely it's more difficult to find RHD units that have already had the LED ballast removed than complete units?

If you bought or acquired a complete pair of RHD LED DRL units, as Lenny says, they are only required for the initial importation check. You could sell them afterwards and get most of the cost back. Not so easy if they're missing parts.

I'm getting the feeling something maybe being lost in translation here. All of the X290 LED headlamp units have filament bulbs, apart from the DRL strip along the lower edge. The non-LED units have a chrome insert instead of the LED strip, and the position lamp/DRL is a dual filament 21/5W bulb.

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[Lenny HB]

Sorry about the above repetition, phone don’t seem to like this!

Thanks for the comprehensive post. Our LHD 2017 lights are filament bulbs with LED DRLs and have a ballast/driver for the DRLs mounted on the body of the lights. Apparently this can be unscrewed and fitted to a body with filament bulbs and led drls. I was wanting to know if anyone had done this, from LHD to RHD light units, both with filament bulbs and led DRLs. There’s no reason why not?

The ballast resistor loads the circuit so the LED's effectively draw the same current as a normal bulb. Will probably play havoc with bulb failure circuit as you would then be drawing twice the current of a normal bulb.

 

[Deneb]

The ballast resistor loads the circuit so the LED's effectively draw the same current as a normal bulb. Will probably play havoc with bulb failure circuit as you would then be drawing twice the current of a normal bulb.

But as I'm reading the question he's wanting to remove the ballasts from LHD units with LED DRLs and fit them to RHD units with LED DRLs. In which case it makes no difference, but the RHD units would already have the ballast fitted anyway.

I'm getting more confused with this thread by the minute!!!

 

[Lenny HB]

But as I'm reading the question he's wanting to remove the ballasts from LHD units with LED DRLs and fit them to RHD units with LED DRLs. In which case it makes no difference, but the RHD units would already have the ballast fitted anyway.

I'm getting more confused with this thread by the minute!!!

I thought he wanted to fit them to lamps with ordinary bulbs.

Might be easier to use a black Sharpie where the light comes on, on the dash.

 

[normanandsue]

We have light protectors on ours with beam benders for UK passed MOT last year.

 

[Deneb]

We have light protectors on ours with beam benders for UK passed MOT last year.

That's not at issue, but it wouldn't pass the IVA test for an imported vehicle pre-UK registration. Once it has been registered, masks are fine.

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[SteveJulesMontycame2]

Ok, this is getting over complicated! Thanks for all the answers - but what I wanted to know is can I fit a pair of these;
https://coastalmotorhomes.co.uk/ele...r-citroen-relay-o-s-headlight-1374295080.html (I’ve copied a link from the silver ones but this takes to the black ones?)

rather than these;

Fits Fiat Ducato Peugeot Boxer Citroen Relay Right Headlight Silver With DRL 14on

New Right Hand Drive Right Headlight With DRL Silver Housing And Light Bulbs Genuine OE FIAT Part Comes Complete With LED DRL Control Unit. Fits: Fiat Ducato, Peugeot Boxer And Citroen Relay From 04.2014 Onwards Face Lift Model. Please Check Our Photos, Part Numbers And Compatibility...

coastalmotorhomes.co.uk

The only difference is the first ones come without ballast so you swap over your existing ballast device to save a few bob.

I’ve just spoken to Coastal Motorhomes where they tell me the DRL driver has the same part number for both LHD and RHD headlights, so on that basis it is the same thing and should fit.

I appreciate I should not need new lights for MoT;
https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/the-mot-headlamp-aim-test-is-changing/
but if a jobs worth doing...and I need a pair to import the thing into the UK anyway, I might as well fit them rather than faff about trying to sell them on. And then worry about the beam benders being slightly in the wrong place or an over officious MoT tester being well, over officious. Most of our driving will be in Europe and there are only 2 screws and a connector to do to change them over come MoT time, so I’m going to order a pair of the £239 ones instead of the £378 ones. And see if the Funster discount works.
Wonder if there’s a market for headlamp hire....?

 

[Deneb]

Ok, this is getting over complicated! Thanks for all the answers - but what I wanted to know is can I fit a pair of these;
https://coastalmotorhomes.co.uk/ele...r-citroen-relay-o-s-headlight-1374295080.html (I’ve copied a link from the silver ones but this takes to the black ones?)

rather than these;

Fits Fiat Ducato Peugeot Boxer Citroen Relay Right Headlight Silver With DRL 14on

New Right Hand Drive Right Headlight With DRL Silver Housing And Light Bulbs Genuine OE FIAT Part Comes Complete With LED DRL Control Unit. Fits: Fiat Ducato, Peugeot Boxer And Citroen Relay From 04.2014 Onwards Face Lift Model. Please Check Our Photos, Part Numbers And Compatibility...

coastalmotorhomes.co.uk

The only difference is the first ones come without ballast so you swap over your existing ballast device to save a few bob.

I’ve just spoken to Coastal Motorhomes where they tell me the DRL driver has the same part number for both LHD and RHD headlights, so on that basis it is the same thing and should fit.

Now I see what you are trying to do, I don't see why not. I didn't realise the lamp units were available without the ballast.

If Coastal Motorhomes confirm that it will fit then you are perfectly entitled to return under distance selling regs if it turns out not to be the case, but I can't see that it won't

 

[tomlowry07]

Hire a ducato for a day. Borrow lights. What's the harm?

 

[Deneb]

Hire a ducato for a day. Borrow lights. What's the harm?

Finding a hire van that was ordered to anything other than base spec might be difficult. As such unlikely to have LED DRL headlamps...

 

[Lenny HB]

Finding a hire van that was ordered to anything other than base spec might be difficult. As such unlikely to have LED DRL headlamps...

Don't think it matters if the dash light comes on for the import check so should be OK.

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[Spriddler]

And that's progress....................(at seven hundred quid ? )

 

[Incarpaul]

Hi came across this post while searching for info on led headlights and thought I would share some info with you that might save you a few quid, i'm not saying it will be easy but it's an option if your good with DIY or maybe a local headlight conversion guy might help.

You have LED DRL fitted into LHD headlights and you want RHD units with LED?

All the latest Ducato, Boxer, Relay headlights 2014 on wards have interchangeable parts inside the casing, LED DRL's, colour trim, ect ect all screwed together so once the front glass has been removed (Normally using an oven) the head light can be disassembled by undoing screws and any parts can be replaced or swapped, If you have an old pair of normal RHD headlights you could just use the main reflector and swap with your LHD saving a few quid.

The main reflector is held in place by the height adjustment motor, a ball attachment device and a slider all easy to release. I did have some spare parts last week when I made one good headlight out of two but I had to cut the front off one and the rear off the other as our oven was too small for the head light to fit in.

The hardest thing is getting the front glass off but like I mentioned earlier you could try these guys who convert headlights and see if they could release the glass for you.



Been playing around

 

[Incarpaul]

 

[PeteH]

The ballast resistor loads the circuit so the LED's effectively draw the same current as a normal bulb.

If the current consumption is the same What is the point of using them anyway? All the ballast is doing is creating heat which has then to be dissipated?..

And that's progress....................(at seven hundred quid ? ) That`s the way the cookie crumbles, Manufacturers need to enhance the spare part price to cover the cost of the discounts they give to large Buyers.

X250 Fuel filter. Fiat Circa £250. E-Bay from Eastern Europe £80. Surprise, surprise, when you examine it? they are from the SAME factory. codes and all!.