Changing Battery Charger Advice please

Kayak Kid

Kayak Kid

Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Posts
427
Likes collected
710
Location
Kilsyth, Glasgow, UK
Funster No
29,424
MH
Coachbuilt
Exp
Since 2013
Changing my Chausson Charger a CB516 to a Victron Blue Smart IP22 30 Amp Charger.

When removing the old charger (CB516) the 12v plug on it has a thin white cable on it in addition to the + and - wire. The Victron charger only has a + and - cable.

Can anyone enlighten me on what the thin white cable is please. Is it a feed to the display panel in the Hab area?

The photos show the charger and connector.

IMG_8726.jpeg IMG_8725.jpeg
 
The cable runs to your distribution box DSXXXX, and from there a signal to the display panel to show EHU connection. I'm not sure that is has any other purpose, but just possibly in charging the cab battery from the hab battery (when over 13.5v) which I haven't checked yet but I doubt. Ours may be a little different since it is Carthago.
 
As I mentioned, my new Victron charger only has the 2 12v connections and it has Bluetooth connection from the charger to an App toshow charging rate etc - as has my new Victron B2B charger and Fogstar Lithium which I am also fitting - so my Hab display may then be redundant. Happy to just leave white wire disconnected if that is its role?
 
Kayak Kid said:
As I mentioned, my new Victron charger only has the 2 12v connections and it has Bluetooth connection from the charger to an App toshow charging rate etc - as has my new Victron B2B charger and Fogstar Lithium which I am also fitting - so my Hab display may then be redundant. Happy to just leave white wire disconnected if that is its role?
Click to expand...
Given you are fitting Lithium you will be disabling temp compensated charging, and in any case the Victron gear would use a different sensor so if yours, unlike mine, was a sensor, it is now redundant in any case! If as I think it is an EHU connected symbol, then you will loose it, not a big issue! On reflection, some vans have a warning that sounds if you start the engine when EHU is connected, to stop you driving off - not sure about Chausson (might be worth checking the manual). The only other purpose for a temp sensor would be to disable charging when the battery is at a very low temperature (Lithium do not like high charge rates below 5degrees C, and should have no charge below 0 degrees C), I'm pretty sure the Fogstar BMS will handle this, and the battery will have an internal heater, so no temp sensor required.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Thanks again!
I suspect it is indeed the signal to the display panel in the Hab area to show that the EHU is connected! As I haven’t finished connecting it all up yet I will see when I finish and connect EHU!

Cheers
Jim
 
The small white cable on the CBE516 is the signal cable that illuminates the EHU light on the control panel. Well, it does on my CBE PC 180 control panel. I fitted a Votronic lithium charger and use the started battery feed as a signal for the EHU control panel light.
 
Fat Albert said:
The small white cable on the CBE516 is the signal cable that illuminates the EHU light on the control panel. Well, it does on my CBE PC 180 control panel. I fitted a Votronic lithium charger and use the started battery feed as a signal for the EHU control panel light.
Click to expand...
Handy to know the signal is 12v - I might add something to do the same - Thanks
 
Kayak Kid said:
Where do you pick up the Starter battery feed to do that?
Click to expand...
The white cable runs a 12v 50ma signal from the old CBE charger to the DSXXX box and that lights the EHU symbol on the display panel since the charger comes on when you plug in your EHU. It isn't connected to the starter.
 
(if it was to a thermostat on the battery, you'd see one there - on the end of a white wire)
I think it is more likely for a mains indicator on the panel, as suggested, and which you should be able to confirm with a test..
If you have an 'EHU still connected' warning, I'd keep it by feeding it into the +ve from the new charger.
You might like to keep it, anyway.
 
Kayak Kid said:
Where do you pick up the Starter battery feed to do that?
Click to expand...
My new votronic charger has the option to trickle charge the starter battery or use it as a signal feed for other uses. I just ran a cable from the charger under the driver's seat to the DS300-TR. I removed the original charger pins from the Mate N Lock plug, fitted the cable to the new pin and inserted into the original MnL plug. Job done.
 
Any electronic wizzes out there. Is it possible to create a circuit board to take a second feed from the said IP22 +12v and reduce to 50mA to supply the DS300 EHU indication? Just a thought for the OP if it's feasible.
 
The output from the charger is always connected to the battery so any output from the charger will always be at the battery voltage.


It would be easier to fit a small mains powered 12v DC power supply, negative output connected to van negative and for safety fit a 220 ohm resistor in line with the positive output to limit the current to 50ma.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Kayak Kid said:
Changing my Chausson Charger a CB516 to a Victron Blue Smart IP22 30 Amp Charger.

When removing the old charger (CB516) the 12v plug on it has a thin white cable on it in addition to the + and - wire. The Victron charger only has a + and - cable.

Can anyone enlighten me on what the thin white cable is please. Is it a feed to the display panel in the Hab area?

The photos show the charger and connector.

View attachment 841513 View attachment 841514
Click to expand...
Did you finish the install of the Victron IP22? Interested in feedback as I’m looking at doing the same thing on my Rapido C86 (I.e. switch to Fogstar Lithium which I’ve just realised means changing the mains charger, currently a CB516). I did wonder what the additional +12v connector did so it would be good to know if it only fed to the display panel.

Also, when I’m on EHU it does seem to top-up the starter battery - at least it has done over the past couple of months when garaged. Does yours do the same and is this something that the additional connector might trigger?
 
I'm also interested in the answer here, I have a Victron charger and Fogstar battery sitting in my garage pending installation.
 
Does your CB516 have a Gel setting? If so the you will probably find that Fogstar will say this is ok for charging their lithium batteries
 
NRM said:
Does your CB516 have a Gel setting? If so the you will probably find that Fogstar will say this is ok for charging their lithium batterie
Click to expand...
Yes it does have a gel setting which matches the voltages required by the Fogstar batteries. However the biggest issue with the CB516 3 way is that, according to the docs, all the settings (incl gel) have a potential desulphation stage which has a voltage of 15.2v. I think that would trigger the over voltage in the Fogstar BMS. This has (kind of) been confirmed by Fogstar and there doesn’t seem to be a way to switch off the desulphation within the CB516.
Click to expand...
 
I think the de-sulphation phase is based on the internal resistance of the battery - I couldn't find a way to disable it, and too much of a risk that it will come on one day, so we kept one of our two 516 chargers connected to the starter battery (for emergencies, normally it is switched off) and installed an inverter charger combined unit to charge the lithiums and provide 240v.

Although the 516's gel setting is a reasonable voltage for my lithiums, because the absorbtion stage is 8 hours I would be relying on the battery BMS alone to switch charging off, which seemed to me an unnecessary risk.

The white signal cable, so far as I can tell, only affects the display panel showing EHU is plugged in and nothing else - have tested this a few times now, and since the 516 is normally switched off it does nothing anyway!

Have thought about different ways of replicating the signal using one of the relay outputs from the multiplus, but I think it is more trouble than it's worth, however might be the subject of some tinkering when we are parked up in the blazing sun and in a restful mood.....

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
If only using EHU very occasionally you could get away with the CBE 516, but if you often use EHU I wouldn't use it, the long absorption phase on Gel is not good for Lithium and the float of 13.8v is too high. It would be better set to Lead Acid then the charge voltage is 14.1v & Float 13.5v also ther absorption phase is shorter 1½ hours.

For the few quid a proper charger costs is not worth the risk.
 
Lenny HB said:
If only using EHU very occasionally you could get away with the CBE 516, but if you often use EHU I wouldn't use it, the long absorption phase on Gel is not good for Lithium and the float of 13.8v is too high. It would be better set to Lead Acid then the charge voltage is 14.1v & Float 13.5v also ther absorption phase is shorter 1½ hours.

For the few quid a proper charger costs is not worth the risk.
Click to expand...
It's worth knowing how a particular battery bms manages its cell balancing - there are some that balance on the charge cycle only, and kick in when a particular trigger voltage is reached. I guess more makes these days work on both charge and discharge, but it wasn't allways a universal feature.
 
travellingsporran said:
Did you finish the install of the Victron IP22? Interested in feedback as I’m looking at doing the same thing on my Rapido C86 (I.e. switch to Fogstar Lithium which I’ve just realised means changing the mains charger, currently a CB516). I did wonder what the additional +12v connector did so it would be good to know if it only fed to the display panel.

Also, when I’m on EHU it does seem to top-up the starter battery - at least it has done over the past couple of months when garaged. Does yours do the same and is this something that the additional connector might trigger?
Click to expand...
Hi,

Unfortunately I haven’t finished the full installation yet.

However, Fogstar told me that my CB516 charging profile is ok for its battery - but I chose to fit the Victron IP22 anyway. It was simple enough to swap chargers over, but I have not bothered with the white wire which lights on the control panel to show when you are on hook up. Never pay any attention to it anyway - as I know when I am on mains connection,😊

My vehicle does not have a circuit for the starter battery to be fed from the CB516 or its replacement Victron IP22 charger. However I have a Battery Master which trickle feeds from the Hab to the Starter Battery.

It is my intention to disable the existing split charge relay circuit in my12 Volt distribution box.

In my wisdom (not) and carelessness, I am embarrassed to say that I made a silly wiring error and blew my 12volt distribution box - and am now waiting on a replacement from Chausson in France.😩 When I get this (scheduled for this week) I will complete the job.

I hope this is helpful.
Jim
 
Kayak Kid said:
Hi,

Unfortunately I haven’t finished the full installation yet.

However, Fogstar told me that my CB516 charging profile is ok for its battery - but I chose to fit the Victron IP22 anyway. It was simple enough to swap chargers over, but I have not bothered with the white wire which lights on the control panel to show when you are on hook up. Never pay any attention to it anyway - as I know when I am on mains connection,😊

My vehicle does not have a circuit for the starter battery to be fed from the CB516 or its replacement Victron IP22 charger. However I have a Battery Master which trickle feeds from the Hab to the Starter Battery.

It is my intention to disable the existing split charge relay circuit in my12 Volt distribution box.

In my wisdom (not) and carelessness, I am embarrassed to say that I made a silly wiring error and blew my 12volt distribution box - and am now waiting on a replacement from Chausson in France.😩 When I get this (scheduled for this week) I will complete the job.

I hope this is helpful.
Jim
Click to expand...
Really interested in the end result of your upgrade as I'm contemplating doing the same on my Chausson 530 as the hab batteries are now over 4 years old and are getting ready for replacement.
 
Here is a copy of the reply I received from Fogstar.

Dave (Fogstar Ltd)

24 Nov 2023, 13:07 GMT

Hi Jim,

I can see that the CB516 has a setting to charge at 14.3v and 13.8 for the Bulk and float charge respectively. This is enough to provide a reliable charge for our batteries, as we recommend 14.4 and 13.6.

A smart alternator will also reliably help to charge the 230.

Kind regards,

Dave

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Sasbo said:
Really interested in the end result of your upgrade as I'm contemplating doing the same on my Chausson 530 as the hab batteries are now over 4 years old and are getting ready for replacement.
Click to expand...
Will do - but straight forward enough to change the mains charger and fit the B2B charger between your Starter and Hab batteries with inline fuses between them.
 
Kayak Kid said:
Here is a copy of the reply I received from Fogstar.

Dave (Fogstar Ltd)

24 Nov 2023, 13:07 GMT

Hi Jim,

I can see that the CB516 has a setting to charge at 14.3v and 13.8 for the Bulk and float charge respectively. This is enough to provide a reliable charge for our batteries, as we recommend 14.4 and 13.6.

A smart alternator will also reliably help to charge the 230.

Kind regards,

Dave
Click to expand...
Thanks for that - v helpful.
One thing I’ve discovered is that CBE appear to do 2 versions of the CB516. The newer one is a 3way which has lead, gel or AGM. Unfortunately, both versions are called CB516 but it’s the text on them which shows one is a 3way. The tech docs for the 3 way says that one of the stages is a desulphation mode which charges at 15.2v and that would trigger the over voltage on the Fogstar BMS. The tech doc for the standard/2way doesn’t mention desulphation so I’m assuming it doesn’t have it.
I think this may be the reason that some people are getting away with using a CB516 I.e. it doesn’t have desulphation which goes to 15.2v and might be the reason Fogstar say it would be ok. Just a hypotheses but explains why there is contradictory views on the 516.
 
travellingsporran said:
Thanks for that - v helpful.
One thing I’ve discovered is that CBE appear to do 2 versions of the CB516. The newer one is a 3way which has lead, gel or AGM. Unfortunately, both versions are called CB516 but it’s the text on them which shows one is a 3way. The tech docs for the 3 way says that one of the stages is a desulphation mode which charges at 15.2v and that would trigger the over voltage on the Fogstar BMS. The tech doc for the standard/2way doesn’t mention desulphation so I’m assuming it doesn’t have it.
I think this may be the reason that some people are getting away with using a CB516 I.e. it doesn’t have desulphation which goes to 15.2v and might be the reason Fogstar say it would be ok. Just a hypotheses but explains why there is contradictory views on the 516.
Click to expand...
That's interesting, my 2019 Chausson has a CB516 and it has no options for Gel or AGM. Maybe it's down to the convertor as to which 516 they install or had in stock at the time of build.
 
Sasbo said:
That's interesting, my 2019 Chausson has a CB516 and it has no options for Gel or AGM. Maybe it's down to the convertor as to which 516 they install or had in stock at the time of build.
Click to expand...
I have a 2019 Chausson with a CBE516. You have to remove the cover and the Gel/AGM switch is at the top left of the circuit board.
 
Fat Albert said:
I have a 2019 Chausson with a CBE516. You have to remove the cover and the Gel/AGM switch is at the top left of the circuit board.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that👍 every day is a school day and it again shows the benefit of being a member on here.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Join us

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Back
Top