Can an authorised Fiat repair dealership pick and choose their customers?

[SpeedyDux]

Our nearest Fiat main dealer service manager kept asking what kind of MH we have when I wanted to book an appointment for recall work. The service manager's mood lifted as soon as I described it as basically a converted Ducato van with a normal cab. He explained that the A Class MHs are a problem due to the restricted access to the engine. I get the impression that they don't really want the warranty or recall work on A Class Ducatos because the actual number of workshop hours is far longer than allowed for by Fiat. They also only have a couple of ramps capable of taking the bigger vans and MHs. All these constraints add up when you are running a busy workshop.

As a general comment, the growing number of MHs seems to be outstripping the capacity of the service facilities offered by the MH dealerships (which not all do) and they seem more interested in expanding the sales side and investing in new bigger showrooms than expanding their workshops. Mine is taking bookings for hab services up to 12 months in advance. This limitation is ridiculous because a missed or late hab service breaches a condition of the converter's warranty.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Putting it bluntly it's a bad situation for customers when the dealers can fill their workshops with their own customers only.

You expect the dealers to turn away their regular customers to keep space for random walk ins that may or may not appear?

but if you have a warranty you usually have to have dealer servicing.

No you don't whatever the dealers may try and tell you. That changed years ago.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Mine is taking bookings for hab services up to 12 months in advance. This limitation is ridiculous because a missed or late hab service breaches a condition of the converter's warranty.

Why is it ridiculous?

Any garage or workshop has a limited capacity. They only have so much space and so many people and there are only so many hours in a day.

What exactly do you expect them to do?

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Basically if your preferred garage doesn't have space on the date you want that's tough. Deal with it.

You have two options:

1. Wait until they can fit you in.

2. Go elsewhere.

It's not rocket science is it.

 

[tjay]

The same rule has been applied for years at Scotlands largest dealer !! First question from reception at Perthshire Caravans when calling is, "Did you purchase your vehicle from us ?" and if you reply no then that is the end of the conversation !
Did query once and was advised that manufacturers warranty work is never actually covers their costs !
Obviously good for them as their workshop is always very busy both on the warranty and service side.
If I ever have any problems I take ours to Scot Motorhomes in Perth, the can and do fix anything at reasonable costs !!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Ivory55]

Our local fiat main dealer will never do motorhomes, said they was to big for the workshop and that the mechanics can not work outside. We used guests iveco hgv garage in thetford.

 

[gus-lopez]

The earliest we can fit you in would be the second week of October. Could you get the vehicle here by 8.30 on the 10th?"

You agree then blow it in.

I know that one of the most respected and biggest motorhome dealers in the country book their workshops 6 to 9 months in advance leaving only very limited space for genuine emergency work which warranty and recall stuff usually isn't.

They need to be working 24/7 then.

Why is it ridiculous?

Any garage or workshop has a limited capacity. They only have so much space and so many people and there are only so many hours in a day.

What exactly do you expect them to do?

If they aren't covering all 168 hours then there is room for improvement. If they are then they need to expand.

 

[Ivory55]

I do not think it’s compulsory for firms to expand or a legal requirement. If you’re earning well with what you have why would you expand and get in to debt to build bigger premises. Does not make sense.

 

[Dave K]

I do not think it’s compulsory for firms to expand or a legal requirement. If you’re earning well with what you have why would you expand and get in to debt to build bigger premises. Does not make sense.

I think it depends on which way you look at it, there’s definitely a market for the business, if they did expand or move to a bigger premises then they would soon reap the benefits, I know from experience that even if I wanted to book in for warranty work at Chelston after purchasing from them then I would expect to wait 2 months minimum to get a slot, after spending £50k on a motorhome to me that’s not acceptable, it also points to the fact that they must be losing lots of potential business.

 

[Ivory55]

They may well be losing potential business, but if I had a nice earner going with out getting more debt around me I would stick with what I had. After all we all think of our selves first it’s human nature

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Dave K]

They may well be losing potential business, but if I had a nice earner going with out getting more debt around me I would stick with what I had. After all we all think of our selves first it’s human nature

True for some but I think if most businessman saw a potential for more profit they would explore that avenue, strangely enough Chelston are currently extending their showroom and shop so I think it’s a case of priorities, bearing in mind they can’t cope with the current workload why make more.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I think it depends on which way you look at it, there’s definitely a market for the business, if they did expand or move to a bigger premises then they would soon reap the benefits, I know from experience that even if I wanted to book in for warranty work at Chelston after purchasing from them then I would expect to wait 2 months minimum to get a slot, after spending £50k on a motorhome to me that’s not acceptable, it also points to the fact that they must be losing lots of potential business.

Perhaps they don't want the extra business. If they're fully booked at a comfortable level that they can manage and finance and they're making profits that they're happy with why would they go to the trouble and expense of expanding?

 

[Deleted member 29692]

True for some but I think if most businessman saw a potential for more profit they would explore that avenue, strangely enough Chelston are currently extending their showroom and shop so I think it’s a case of priorities, bearing in mind they can’t cope with the current workload why make more.

Because the cost of increasing something like workshop capacity by a given percentage does not translate into the same percentage increase in profit. It doesn't even come close.

Capital sales (in this case new motorhomes) are far more profitable than servicing so I'd suggest that the directors of Chelston have got it spot on.

The increase in sales may also mean that instead of being booked up for 2 months their workshops are fully booked for 4 months or even longer. Again good business.

 

[Ivory55]

I know of business that thought more trucks means more profit. Just ended up more work for the same profit, the hassle of extra employee, pension etc . Even parking for more staff , it’s all more hassle.

 

[Dave K]

Perhaps

Because the cost of increasing something like workshop capacity by a given percentage does not translate into the same percentage increase in profit. It doesn't even come close.

Capital sales (in this case new motorhomes) are far more profitable than servicing so I'd suggest that the directors of Chelston have got it spot on.

The increase in sales may also mean that instead of being booked up for 2 months their workshops are fully booked for 4 months or even longer. Again good business.

But then they can’t keep customers happy, who would want to wait 4 months to have a warranty issue sorted, I know I wouldn’t, I think that’s poor business in that sense, either that or they need to stop selling Swifts and Auto trails

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Deleted member 29692]

But then they can’t keep customers happy, who would want to wait 4 months to have a warranty issue sorted, I know I wouldn’t, I think that’s poor business in that sense,

If you mean all customers then that's of secondary importance. As anyone who has ever run a business will tell you it's impossible anyway so it's not worth wasting time trying to.

They're keeping enough customers happy to keep their workshops at capacity so they're doing enough.

4 months is a short wait for non urgent work anyway

The one I mentioned earlier routinely runs at 6 - 9 months for all work. Their customers are more than happy with the service they receive. Many of them happily book their hab service a year in advance.

 

[Abacist]

You expect the dealers to turn away their regular customers to keep space for random walk ins that may or may not appear?

I did not say that at all! I would like to see a more depressed motorhome market and then perhaps dealer workshops would not be rammed full of their own customers and they would be pleased to take on other work. That might not sound very nice but the dealers don't present a very customer friendly environment in warranty situations as we have seen so many times on here. They take the money and run and then don't care much about you. In a more depressed market greater discounts would be on offer to secure business. The dealers have it too good at present and the customers are getting a poor deal - be they dealer customers or other potential customers. The alternative is for more new dealers to set up to take advantage of the business being turned away by existing dealerships and also to provide a better sales and after sales service.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I did not say that at all! I would like to see a more depressed motorhome market and then perhaps dealer workshops would not be rammed full of their own customers and they would be pleased to take on other work. That might not sound very nice but the dealers don't present a very customer friendly environment in warranty situations as we have seen so many times on here. They take the money and run and then don't care much about you. In a more depressed market greater discounts would be on offer to secure business. The dealers have it too good at present and the customers are getting a poor deal - be they dealer customers or other potential customers. The alternative is for more new dealers to set up to take advantage of the business being turned away by existing dealerships and also to provide a better sales and after sales service.

I kind of see your point although I don't completely agree with it.

You'd like less people to buy motorhomes. I'm sure the manufacturers will be 100% behind you on that one

There are a couple of other big issues with the idea:

If the vehicle sales market was depressed the dealers wouldn't be inclined to keep their workshops at the capacities they are now. As standalone entities I doubt they're profitable enough to make it worthwhile, I'm sure most dealers only maintain (and subsidise?) workshops to look after their vehicle sales customers. If they can fit anything else in it's a bonus.

It's not new dealers that would need to set up, you would just end up with more of the same. It's new motorhome workshops without any kind of attached vehicle sales that would be needed to make your idea work. The fact that there aren't any beyond a handful of very very good one man band type operations should tell you all you need to know about the viability of that sort of enterprise.

Just by the by I had a couple of very minor warranty issues with my motorhome dealt with by the very busy dealership previously mentioned (not the one I bought it from) with no wait at all. Some thinking outside the box by both parties is needed, and I think Rapido cooperated as well in my case, but it's possible

 

[SpeedyDux]

Why is it ridiculous?

Any garage or workshop has a limited capacity. They only have so much space and so many people and there are only so many hours in a day.

What exactly do you expect them to do?

Since you asked, MH owners have spent a shedload of money on their purchase and it is reasonable to expect a commensurate level of after sales service and flexibility instead of long waits and what is effectively a rationing system for the convenience of the dealer. It could and should be a lot better for the customer.

I am not saying that they should provide a walk-in, on demand, type of after sales service. It would be reasonable for supplying dealers to expand their workshops and hire more trained staff to reduce waiting times. A reminder to book the first hab service soon after initial handover, because apparently the slots for hab servicing are fully booked up to 12 months in advance, leads to the conclusion that their after-sales service is overstretched. Once mine is out of warranty I will be looking elsewhere. That is, if further annual hab services are actually necessary or good value for a fairly basic PVC. I can see a stronger argument for annual hab services for coachbuilts.

 

[ludo]

We have just booked our motorhome in for the first fiat engine service at camperuk we did not buy it from them they even asked if we wanted the habitation check done.

Try booking a carthago into a German dealer if you did not buy it from them we tried four not one of them would do the work we did not want warranty work done just a hab service and damp check.

Good Luck there!

If our experience with them is anything to go by, you will definitely need it!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[motorhomer]

Why is it ridiculous?

Any garage or workshop has a limited capacity. They only have so much space and so many people and there are only so many hours in a day.

What exactly do you expect them to do?

If I take a car to a dealer in my experience, whether or not I bought from them they can fit me in, in a reasonable time, usually not more than one or two weeks. . So to answer your question since the motorhome costs more than twice as much as a car I expect the same level of service at least. So the dealers need to set out their capacities etc to provide a decent service, or they will not be here when times get tougher and people can walk away.

 

[eddie]

I think it depends on which way you look at it, there’s definitely a market for the business, if they did expand or move to a bigger premises then they would soon reap the benefits, I know from experience that even if I wanted to book in for warranty work at Chelston after purchasing from them then I would expect to wait 2 months minimum to get a slot, after spending £50k on a motorhome to me that’s not acceptable, it also points to the fact that they must be losing lots of potential business.

That works fine on paper, Chelston did expand, opened a massive new workshop complex and it didn’t work and cost a fortune and they were forced to close it again

If I take a car to a dealer in my experience, whether or not I bought from them they can fit me in, in a reasonable time, usually not more than one or two weeks. . So to answer your question since the motorhome costs more than twice as much as a car I expect the same level of service at least. So the dealers need to set out their capacities etc to provide a decent service, or they will not be here when times get tougher and people can walk away.

New car sales are in the millions

12,000 new motorhomes sold last year

Also the leisure industry tends to be far more seasonal

 

[MR. FUSION]

I have to do a a 750 mile round trip for a hab check to keep my Carado water ingress warranty as that is where the nearest authorised dealer is from me (nobody else will do for them) ....so you.... not so bad ?

 

[eddie]

if warranty if warranty work is required, simply pay to get the work done and get re-imbursed after

That way you can expect to get the dealer of your choice at a time convenient to you

Of course you’ll struggle like mad to get paid, which is precisely why many dealers will only work on motorhomes supplied by themselves

 

[Ivory55]

I am no dealer fan but you have to be realistic. The real fault lies with us joe public. We keep buying under these terms, so the dealer would be foolish not to take our money.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Dave K]

if warranty if warranty work is required, simply pay to get the work done and get re-imbursed after

That way you can expect to get the dealer of your choice at a time convenient to you

Of course you’ll struggle like mad to get paid, which is precisely why many dealers will only work on motorhomes supplied by themselves

I kind of understand what you’re saying but I think that’s a case of having the cake and eating it, being a listed Fiat repair specialist comes with many plus points I imagine, particularly financially through labour rates, and as for expansion and then shutting down that has to be down to poor management, the next local recognised Fiat garage is in Weston Super Mare, Chelston’s position just off the motorway junction couldn’t be better and after speaking with them this week they aren’t booking any work until the beginning of August, their yard at the service department is chock a block with motorhomes, the staff have to park the motorhomes because it’s so rammed in there so why expand motorhome sales when they can’t cope now, all they’ll end up doing is losing customers because of lead times.

 

[eddie]

I kind of understand what you’re saying but I think that’s a case of having the cake and eating it, being a listed Fiat repair specialist comes with many plus points I imagine, particularly financially through labour rates, and as for expansion and then shutting down that has to be down to poor management, the next local recognised Fiat garage is in Weston Super Mare, Chelston’s position just off the motorway junction couldn’t be better and after speaking with them this week they aren’t booking any work until the beginning of August, their yard at the service department is chock a block with motorhomes, the staff have to park the motorhomes because it’s so rammed in there so why expand motorhome sales when they can’t cope now, all they’ll end up doing is losing customers because of lead times.

I suspect that making thousands on a vehicle sale is far more desirous than sorting out technical issues on vans sold by third parties.

I suspect that they are coping with their own customers and simply don't want/need/care about the customers of, what are, lets face it their competitors.

Now if this was a thread about a Chelston customer moaning that they couldn't get Chelston to undertake warranty work, I would feel different I expect.

We chose a dealer in Bolton and expected to drive from Taunton to Bolton should we need to use Oakwell Motorhomes (Fantastic dealer by the way)

We realised where the dealer that we did business with was, prior to giving him any money to avoid us feeling disappointed afterwards

 

[Spriddler]

I always buy 'out of warranty' vehicles when all the base vehicle issues have been sorted at the cost of someone else's blood pressure. I'm then able to take it to my local garage who has looked after my family's cars for 30 years or any number of non-specialist motorhome dealers/garages. For hab service I use a mobile engineer. He comes to ME. If I'm going to be out I hide the keys for him or leave them with a neighbour. So simple.

 

[Dave K]

I suspect that making thousands on a vehicle sale is far more desirous than sorting out technical issues on vans sold by third parties.

I suspect that they are coping with their own customers and simply don't want/need/care about the customers of, what are, lets face it their competitors.

Now if this was a thread about a Chelston customer moaning that they couldn't get Chelston to undertake warranty work, I would feel different I expect.

We chose a dealer in Bolton and expected to drive from Taunton to Bolton should we need to use Oakwell Motorhomes (Fantastic dealer by the way)

We realised where the dealer that we did business with was, prior to giving him any money to avoid us feeling disappointed afterwards

I understand that Eddie, I have now taken to Huttons at Weston, difference is I won’t use Chelston now for any other work, I paid them 50k for a van 18 months ago and they still send me a loyalty card and invites to weekend sales etc, I would think they might be interested in further custom but as others have said the market is buoyant so keeping old customers happy doesn’t bother them, but that’s the world we live in .
On the other hand Davan will happily carry out any warranty work on the Pilote side of things even though I didn’t buy from them so I guess I’m lucky on that score.

 

[gus-lopez]

I do not think it’s compulsory for firms to expand or a legal requirement. If you’re earning well with what you have why would you expand and get in to debt to build bigger premises. Does not make sense.

they should be able to fund it out of profits if they are earning that well.

4 months is a short wait for non urgent work anyway

Regardless of the product any wait is to long for me.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}