campervan or small motorhome on DLA

[cargo1]

Hi there,

I was just wondering if anyone knew if it was possible to use my DLA benefit which is being used for a car at present for a campervan or small motorhome

Thank you very much in anticipation

 

[John & Joan]

Hi there,

I was just wondering if anyone knew if it was possible to use my DLA benefit which is being used for a car at present for a campervan or small motorhome

Thank you very much in anticipation

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/disabledpeople/motoringandtransport/adaptingavehicle/dg_10028000

If you wish to Buy on HP it is possible.

I don't know if Mobility cover such vehicles.

On of the dealers may be able to advise.

John

 

[Douglas]

If you are on the higher mobility allowance it certainly covers the road tax.

Doug...

 

[slobadoberbob]

I do not thinkit is possible if the vehicle has VAT

If the is a base vehicle on a commercial chassis.. Like campers then VAT is due and Motability will not do that unless it is a wheelchair converted vehicle which allows them to re claim the vat.

You can have the disabled road tax off a camper using the DLA 404 exemption form providing the vehicle is registered disabled.

I have an RV which is a heavy private goods and the road tax is cheaper than my 1.8 Hyundia car... So I tax the car and pay the tax on the RV.

Remember there might be VAT exemption on New or Second hand.. Yes second hand are allowed .. See HMC leaflets.. It is a harder job to get some dealers to apply the removal of VAT at source .. You cannot reclaim it after... There are rules..if you want more detailed info p.m. me. Vat at 20% on the margin (profit) can be a lot of money on a
£30k plus vehicle. On imported second hand yanks it can be taken off the whole advertised price not the margin.

But best ask Motability operations for the skinny on it.


Bob:thumb:

 

[Peter JohnsCross MH]

Remember there might be VAT exemption on New or Second hand.. Yes second hand are allowed .. See HMC leaflets.. It is a harder job to get some dealers to apply the removal of VAT at source .. You cannot reclaim it after... There are rules..if you want more detailed info p.m. me. Vat at 20% on the margin (profit) can be a lot of money on a
£30k plus vehicle.
But best ask Motability operations for the skinny on it.
Bob:thumb:

No problem with us, rather give it to the customer than the Revenue!

Peter

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[slobadoberbob]

Pleased to see a progressive dealer

No problem with us, rather give it to the customer than the Revenue!

Peter

Nice to see a dealer Peter that will allow the vat rules to be applied to those that comply with the rules.

Not every dealer will bother.. When it can make the difference to a disabled person if he or she so buys.

Well done

Bob:thumb:

 

[Road Runner]

No problem with us, rather give it to the customer than the Revenue!

Peter

Right but mobility finance deal with you then Peter?

 

[Peter JohnsCross MH]

We don't deal with mobility finance as such, but we offer VAT free to qualified persons who can either arrange their own finance or use our facilities.

Bank loan, personal loan, other HP company, makes no difference to us as long as we get paid !

Peter

 

[slverdreamers]

Re DLA for motorhome

Hi there,

I was just wondering if anyone knew if it was possible to use my DLA benefit which is being used for a car at present for a campervan or small motorhome

Thank you very much in anticipation

We were told no only suitable for vehicle to take user in the wheelchair not for sleeping in. Lowdham informed us we could buy vat free only if disabled person used wheelchair and then they would have to put a designated area and fixing point for the wheelchair. We do get the road tax free on the camper and pay for the smart car we tow.
Regards Peter & Glynis

 

[pudseykeith]

Hi. Spend it on a camper van, apply for free road tax, no problem, as long as the vehicle is used for the benefit of the disabled person. :thumb:
PK

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[slobadoberbob]

You do not get the cash to spend as you like... Reason is

Hi. Spend it on a camper van, apply for free road tax, no problem, as long as the vehicle is used for the benefit of the disabled person. :thumb:
PK

It is a lot more complex than you think.

Firstly the dealer you want to buy from ... New or second hand has to be accredited to the Motability scheme. That means a dealer has to jump through a lot of hoops. They do not just give Motability dealerships out.

The lease scheme has to be an approved vehicle .. Lease lasts for 3 years unless it is a converted vehicle to carry a power wheelchair then a lease can be issued for 5 years.

HP scheme is between 2 an 5 years.. The vehicle also have to meet strict rules of mileage and age at the termination of the agreement.. Basically it is no more than 7 years old at the end of the agreement. Again the dealer is on an approved list.

Having had a Motability entitlement since it started many many years ago I have watched the scheme grow...

Getting vat off the price of an RV or motorhome is another thing entirely. Basically yes you need to be a fulltime wheechair user. But the rules are not as simple as some think. For example there is no requirements for ramps or retaining clamps ..HM Customs and Revenue have accepted even a steering wheel spinner meets the rules..but it still requires the wheelchair / stretcher rule applies.. See the HMRC document available on line for the rules etc.,

So the Motability and VAT issue are two different animals.

I am not aware motabilty would finance a motorhome.. Remember your allowance on DLA covers the lease charges plus the extra down payment by the person signing the agreement. For the HP agreement you have to pay the balance that Motability do not pay so you would only be financing through Motabilty about £8k and interest is around 9% so you would have to have the rest of the cash to add to the purchase. Not a good way to do it in my view.. Yes use you road tax entailment on a camper, expect a lease car as then Motability tax the car on that document DLA404 .. I have an RV and I pay for my RV road tax as it is only £168 compared to my car at over £200 so the DLA exemption goes on the car.. No brainer.

So I would say no you cannot get a motorhome on motabilty. But ring there help desk at Harlow in Essex.

If you have questions I suggest you p.m. Me as I have wideexperiance of both the mobility scheame and the HMCR rules on the VAT relief.

Bob:Blush:

 

[pappajohn]

i remeber a thread on here a while ago regarding a couple who bought a van on DLA/mobility.

followed by another, then another....just to keep the repayments managable.

it was all arranged by a major dealer and in the end the van was repo'd and the dept writen off.

i think the jist was, the payments were discounted but only for a limited time...possibly 3 years...so they traded in for new to keep the discount period.

so yes, it is possible....but beware !

 

[slobadoberbob]

I think beware is right.

so yes, it is possible....but beware !

I would look at the words.... but beware....

It sounds as if a dealer has done something out of the norm.. So I would for one check with the horses mouth I.e Motability at Harlow... My gut says they will say no.

But personally I do not see why not.. But it is the amount you can borrow over the maximum period on h.p. (no way on a lease agreement) .. You can only borrow just over £8 k and given the requirements of the age I doubt that would help any if they had to stump up £20 to £30 k or more to buy the motorhome.

Just does not sit comfortable with me as a user of the scheme which was designed for a car for a disabled person. But I would love to hear more if someone has managed to do it legally and above board.

Bob:Blush:

 

[pappajohn]

I would look at the words.... but beware....

It sounds as if a dealer has done something out of the norm.. So I would for one check with the horses mouth I.e Motability at Harlow... My gut says they will say no.

But personally I do not see why not.. But it is the amount you can borrow over the maximum period on h.p. (no way on a lease agreement) .. You can only borrow just over £8 k and given the requirements of the age I doubt that would help any if they had to stump up £20 to £30 k or more to buy the motorhome.

Just does not sit comfortable with me as a user of the scheme which was designed for a car for a disabled person. But I would love to hear more if someone has managed to do it legally and above board.

Bob:Blush:

it was a well publisised item Bob, both here, as a link, in 'motorhomes in the news' and in the media.

the salesman, allegedly, omitted to mention the payments were time limited so the couple were 'ill advised' to trade in and start again...restarting the discount period.

my 'but beware' comment refered to thoroughly reading the small print before putting your name to anything.
as you're aware, this can run into many pages, many of which are writen in legal speak so are beyond average comprehension.

 

[motor roamin]

i remeber a thread on here a while ago regarding a couple who bought a van on DLA/mobility.

followed by another, then another....just to keep the repayments managable.

it was all arranged by a major dealer and in the end the van was repo'd and the dept writen off.

i think the jist was, the payments were discounted but only for a limited time...possibly 3 years...so they traded in for new to keep the discount period.

so yes, it is possible....but beware !

I don't think that was on Mobility John (though I could be wrong) I think it was deffered interest for three years and they kept getting led into upgradeing to keep the deffered but they didn't understand the principal was increacing by a considerable amount every time they swapped.

All the best Rick

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[pappajohn]

I don't think that was on Mobility John (though I could be wrong) I think it was deffered interest for three years and they kept getting led into upgradeing to keep the deffered but they didn't understand the principal was increacing by a considerable amount every time they swapped.

All the best Rick

thanks for that Rick.
tried my best to find the thread/link but it must have gone off the system.

now you mention it that does ring a bell. oh::Blush:

 

[joncris]

We don't deal with mobility finance as such, but we offer VAT free to qualified persons who can either arrange their own finance or use our facilities.

Bank loan, personal loan, other HP company, makes no difference to us as long as we get paid !

Peter

I should contact them if I were you You never know as many disabled (including myself) use MH's they might be on the verge of giving it serious consideration to contract hire or offer HP on such purchases:thumb:

 

[joncris]

We were told no only suitable for vehicle to take user in the wheelchair not for sleeping in. Lowdham informed us we could buy vat free only if disabled person used wheelchair and then they would have to put a designated area and fixing point for the wheelchair. We do get the road tax free on the camper and pay for the smart car we tow.
Regards Peter & Glynis

PLEASE don't take that advice as conclusive The ONLY thing that matters is that the person is in receipt of higher DLA The wheelchair advice is nonsense many severley disabled do not use a wheelchair & to exclude them amounts to disability discrimination

 

[motorhomelover]

Hi there,

I was just wondering if anyone knew if it was possible to use my DLA benefit which is being used for a car at present for a campervan or small motorhome

Thank you very much in anticipation

you can use the road tax exemption on your motor home/camper
you can only get a mobillity car on the benefit however you can use the money to run your own vehicle paying your own insurance and repair bills so yes you can

 

[slobadoberbob]

You may be getting the issue wrong

PLEASE don't take that advice as conclusive The ONLY thing that matters is that the person is in receipt of higher DLA The wheelchair advice is nonsense many severley disabled do not use a wheelchair & to exclude them amounts to disability discrimination

To be able to have a contract hire (read lease) with Motability or an HP agreement you have to be in receipt of the higher rate Motability component of DLA.. It has to be issued for 3 years or longer. If you get the higher rate DLA you do not have to buy or lease a car from Motability (the charity) you can just have the money to do with as you wish.. It is paid every 4 weeks. This is converted to a lease payment or HP payment and DWP take the money at source .. You never see it... You only get the money if you do not want a vehicle.

The issue of VAT is a seperate issue and to get the VAT off a motor home new or second hand means you have to meet the HMCR rules.. Which is a wheelchair user or stretcher user.. The adaptions needed are far and wide and have been tested through the courts... As I say a steering wheel spinner meets the rules.

But you need to get the dealer to deduct vat at source either off the margin or off the sale price.. Not always easy to do as lots of dealers do not understand the rules.

So seperate issues..

So please be aware that vat off a motor home is not the same as getting DLA and the motabilty scheme.. Motability lease scheme has the vat already deducted at source due to Motability being a charity and the head leae holder I.e the owner of the vehicle before it is leased to the DLA recipient.

Bob:thumb:

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[cyclingdoglucy]

welfare reforms new personal independance payment

(1)​

A person is not entitled to the daily living component or the mobility

component for any period after the person reaches the relevant age.

this is the new welfare reform that i came across. it reads that on reaching retirement age then d l a is stopped

Link Removed

 

[joncris]

To be able to have a contract hire (read lease) with Motability or an HP agreement you have to be in receipt of the higher rate Motability component of DLA.. It has to be issued for 3 years or longer. If you get the higher rate DLA you do not have to buy or lease a car from Motability (the charity) you can just have the money to do with as you wish.. It is paid every 4 weeks. This is converted to a lease payment or HP payment and DWP take the money at source .. You never see it... You only get the money if you do not want a vehicle.

The issue of VAT is a seperate issue and to get the VAT off a motor home new or second hand means you have to meet the HMCR rules.. Which is a wheelchair user or stretcher user.. The adaptions needed are far and wide and have been tested through the courts... As I say a steering wheel spinner meets the rules.

But you need to get the dealer to deduct vat at source either off the margin or off the sale price.. Not always easy to do as lots of dealers do not understand the rules.

So seperate issues..

So please be aware that vat off a motor home is not the same as getting DLA and the motabilty scheme.. Motability lease scheme has the vat already deducted at source due to Motability being a charity and the head leae holder I.e the owner of the vehicle before it is leased to the DLA recipient.

Bob:thumb:

Really thats interesting Can you provide a citation please?

 

[joncris]

Also if vat IS deducted (at source) does that only apply to 'wheel or stretcher users"on higher DLA or are ALL higher DLA recipinents eligible irrespective of their need or not for a wheelchair/stretcher?

 

[slobadoberbob]

Suggest you look HMRC site

Also if vat IS deducted (at source) does that only apply to 'wheel or stretcher users"on higher DLA or are ALL higher DLA recipinents eligible irrespective of their need or not for a wheelchair/stretcher?

The rules are very clear and understandable on the HMRC site and if you contact there help line they will send out the booklet to those that think they qualify.

The declaration is what counts to qualify and it clearly says wheelchair or stretcher.. DLA does not have anything to do with it.

If you purchase a motorhome new or second hand the dealer has to be satisfied you have complied with the rules and regulations as laid down by HMRC. You the person applying has to complete his own set of forms then the dealer can either sell it less the vat on the margin or if a displayled vat amount is shown that can be deducted. This also applies to work in the future .. But the original purchase document (copy) showing vat exemption has to be supplied along with a declaration from you and also by the dealer doing work to the original vehicle .. Not add on's .. But brakes for example wiper arms, mirrors etc.,

It is a similar declaration to buying a vat exempted wheelchair.. But a few more forms

HMRC will also carry out checks on the dealer and the person applying for the exemption as needed. Ramps and wheel air clamps are not required and the HMRC booklet does give examples of the steering wheel spinner etc.,.

It is a case of knowing the rules and regulations. But as I have said DLA has nothing to do with HMRC regulations.

Bob:Blush:

 

[joncris]

I may be wrong but my information suggests otherwise. anyway to resolve this once & for all you remarked earlier that this had been "tested in the courts" I tried googling it without success, can you provide a citation please

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[slobadoberbob]

HM CUSTOMS and EXCISE NOTICE

H M CUSTOMS and EXCISE (now HMRC) notice 701/59 issued March 2002 still in use and valid... 34 pages.

The rules and regulations on ..Motor vehicles for disabled people.

page 11 gives the examples of adaptions:

Section 3.5

a swival chair

a hoist for the wheelchair, into or onto the vehicle

a box for the wheelchair, which is fitted to the top of the back of a vehicle

adaptions that enable a wheelchair user to drive the vehicle, such as a push/pull brake and accelerator, hand controls or other aids that oporate the primary controls; and

infea red control unit that oporates seconary controls...

this list is not an exhaustive list.

The following are NOT adaptions for the carrage of a disabled wheelchair user;

the fitting of a roof rack or standard roof box

the attachment of a trailer to the back of a vehicle; or

the fitting of automatic transmission;

because they are for general use and not specifically designed for the disabled people.

This is not an exhaustive list.

section 3.1 deals with motorhomes
section 3.2 deals with What adaption for the carriage of a disabled wheelchair / stretcher user mean.
section 3.3 deals with what a perminate adaption is
and
section 34 deals with ..what is a substantial adaption.
quote.......... page 10 of the rules says.

A substantial adaption enables a wheelchair user to use a vehicle which he could not use before it was adapted. For example, a spinner device such as a knob on a steering wheel, may not seem substantial to an abled bodied person but it would be substantial for a disabled wheelchair user who could not otherwise drive the vehicle.

It would not be reasonable to quote the whole rules and regulations here but if anyone is interested then I suggest a call to the local HMRC office and ask for a copy of the free guide. Dealers work from it and so do orangisations that give disability advise.

I would remind the readers of the post that HMRC can and do check. So it is not just a case of producing a wheelchair but the actual owner has to be considered to meet the rules and regulations.. the degree of disability as well as the fact the person has a medical issued wheelchair / stretcher is considered as are other factors. Dealers like Johns Cross Motor Caravans ..Peter does supply vehicles that can be VAT exempted to the right applicants, as do many dealers. But as a lot know some were prosecuted a while back for trying it on.

If you have a specific question about the rules I will do my best to answer..but HMRC are a law unto themselves and say yes to somethings one day and no on another day. Remember the repairs on going to the main vehicle are also covered, but again see the booklet for details.

This is a worthwhile releif given by HMRC and was not lightly given and many organisations had to challange various sections as time went on to get what is allowed to day. Those that abuse it effect all those that have a need for it and allow them mobility.

I for one say thank you to HMRC for allowing the vat off motorhomes new and second hand for the disabled (Wheelchair user).

Bob:thumb:

 

[joncris]

H M CUSTOMS and EXCISE (now HMRC) notice 701/59 issued March 2002 still in use and valid... 34 pages.

The rules and regulations on ..Motor vehicles for disabled people.

page 11 gives the examples of adaptions:

Section 3.5

a swival chair

a hoist for the wheelchair, into or onto the vehicle

a box for the wheelchair, which is fitted to the top of the back of a vehicle

adaptions that enable a wheelchair user to drive the vehicle, such as a push/pull brake and accelerator, hand controls or other aids that oporate the primary controls; and

infea red control unit that oporates seconary controls...

this list is not an exhaustive list.

The following are NOT adaptions for the carrage of a disabled wheelchair user;

the fitting of a roof rack or standard roof box

the attachment of a trailer to the back of a vehicle; or

the fitting of automatic transmission;

because they are for general use and not specifically designed for the disabled people.

This is not an exhaustive list.

section 3.1 deals with motorhomes
section 3.2 deals with What adaption for the carriage of a disabled wheelchair / stretcher user mean.
section 3.3 deals with what a perminate adaption is
and
section 34 deals with ..what is a substantial adaption.
quote.......... page 10 of the rules says.

A substantial adaption enables a wheelchair user to use a vehicle which he could not use before it was adapted. For example, a spinner device such as a knob on a steering wheel, may not seem substantial to an abled bodied person but it would be substantial for a disabled wheelchair user who could not otherwise drive the vehicle.

It would not be reasonable to quote the whole rules and regulations here but if anyone is interested then I suggest a call to the local HMRC office and ask for a copy of the free guide. Dealers work from it and so do orangisations that give disability advise.

I would remind the readers of the post that HMRC can and do check. So it is not just a case of producing a wheelchair but the actual owner has to be considered to meet the rules and regulations.. the degree of disability as well as the fact the person has a medical issued wheelchair / stretcher is considered as are other factors. Dealers like Johns Cross Motor Caravans ..Peter does supply vehicles that can be VAT exempted to the right applicants, as do many dealers. But as a lot know some were prosecuted a while back for trying it on.

If you have a specific question about the rules I will do my best to answer..but HMRC are a law unto themselves and say yes to somethings one day and no on another day. Remember the repairs on going to the main vehicle are also covered, but again see the booklet for details.

This is a worthwhile releif given by HMRC and was not lightly given and many organisations had to challange various sections as time went on to get what is allowed to day. Those that abuse it effect all those that have a need for it and allow them mobility.

I for one say thank you to HMRC for allowing the vat off motorhomes new and second hand for the disabled (Wheelchair user).

Bob:thumb:

To be clear the contention is that only those vehicles adapted for wheelchair/stretcher users are exempt from VAT? Therefore in the case of Motability all none adapted are subject to VAT OR is the fact that they are a charity mean they are exempt irrespective of the customers needs

Are you aware that disabled bays that require a blue badge are now considered as unlawful in that the discriminate against those disabled who do not have a blue badge of which apparently there are many

 

[slobadoberbob]

I am not playing your silly mind games

Are you aware that disabled bays that require a blue badge are now considered as unlawful in that the discriminate against those disabled who do not have a blue badge of which apparently there are many

I have decided not to play your silly mind games. Life is to short to waste the time answering your silly posts... I think you will find you controversial posts will be recognized for what they are..to cause discord on the RVOC and the MHF sites. It does not help advance any issues if you just pull posts or explanations apart to score silly points.

Therefore I will not answer any of your posts from this point on. I have never in all my posts on both sites felt the need to take that action with a fellow motorhome owner.. But there had to be a first.

Bob:Angry:

 

[joncris]

Like I said before if you should stop your personal abuse

Also whether you know it or not (& it seems not) I'm afraid its true certainly in the case of superrmarket car parks. Reason> not every disabled person has a blue badge & to forbid them parking in a disabled bay & using the convenience that affords IS now considered as discrimination by the powers that be