Buyer's remorse

[Odd-no-more]

Having installed my inverter I'm now wondering if I did the right thing. So far I've spent about £300, my battery is not large enough to power it anywhere near it's full 2kw and is overloaded even for the 500w I will use. To run it correctly, just for the 500w, I need a second battery, battery box and extra cable and terminals. For the full 2000w I need lithium and new chargers as well as more solar, the costs keep going up. I could have bought a power bank for around £1,500 this would need no extra wiring and could be used outside the van as well.
Did I do the right thing?

 

[Tombola]

Having installed my inverter I'm now wondering if I did the right thing. So far I've spent about £300, my battery is not large enough to power it anywhere near it's full 2kw and is overloaded even for the 500w I will use. To run it correctly, just for the 500w, I need a second battery, battery box and extra cable and terminals. For the full 2000w I need lithium and new chargers as well as more solar, the costs keep going up. I could have bought a power bank for around £1,500 this would need no extra wiring and could be used outside the van as well.
Did I do the right thing?

Buyers remorse...no such thing, onwards upwards and enjoy doing it
if nothing else you'll learn a bit

 

[DavidG58]

A £300 2Kw inverter sounds very cheap, sure we paid much more than that for a much smaller unit maybe prices have fallen a lot , or that might be another regret

 

[Googlebot]

I thought that too about the inverter. Especially when I wired it into all the sockets.

Now though I use it all the time without thinking and it was worth it.

In fact, I even have an extension into the house and run the tumble dryer from the solar when it’s on the drive. So far I have saved £20 in electricity in 2 months so I am getting some payback.

 

[Langtoftlad]

I bought the Anker 757 for £995 on special offer + 5% cashback.

It was the simplest hassle free effective upgrade to my van's electrical system.

• Doubles the battery capacity.
• 1500 psw inverter
• Redundancy if my 6y old batteries fail at an inconvenient time
• More sockets than you can shake a stick at
• Luggable - so you could take mains power to where you want it.
• Pseudo EHU so you can use your van's sockets
• Fast mains rechargeable - lug it to any convenient 240 socket, have a drink & 50mins later it's 80% recharged

All in one 20kg box* (which can be transferred to your next van rather than a lost investment)

*The ecoflow delta 2 is a lot lighter for just a little less capacity, I've no idea why.

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[Lenny HB]

A £300 2Kw inverter sounds very cheap, sure we paid much more than that for a much smaller unit maybe prices have fallen a lot , or that might be another regret

For his use it's probably OK I only use a cheap inverter and it works for my use but as you say a decent one would be 3 times that and advisable if running sensitive equipment.

£300 is naff all to spend on Motorhome accessories but this is a caravan. Caravan owners generally don't spend that much on them and they haven't got the payload not that many caravanners have heard of the word (payload).

I don't think Lithium is that practical in a caravan it would be a nightmare to fit a B2B & not much point in having Lithium if you can't take advantage of their features like fast charging.

I don't think much of the idea of using power banks in a Motorhome but in this case for a caravan it could be a good solution.

 

[Lenny HB]

In fact, I even have an extension into the house and run the tumble dryer from the solar when it’s on the drive. So far I have saved £20 in electricity in 2 months so I am getting some payback

Must rain a lot where you live, our tumble dryer gets used half a dozen times a year at most.

 

[Langtoftlad]

I don't think much of the idea of using power banks in a Motorhome

Why?
Especially when not blessed with (any) DIY skills.

 

[Lenny HB]

Why?
Especially when not blessed with (any) DIY skills.

Personal opinion mainly, prefer a fully installed system I don't have to worry and I enjoy the challange of the installation.
Also I think installing a power bank I would still do almost as much work making it semi-perminant

 

[Googlebot]

Must rain a lot where you live, our tumble dryer gets used half a dozen times a year at most.

I am lazy and it’s free.

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[Odd-no-more]

A £300 2Kw inverter sounds very cheap, sure we paid much more than that for a much smaller unit maybe prices have fallen a lot , or that might be another regret

The inverter was about £240 cable etc took it to £300 but that is without upgrading the battery and solar. To do the whole thing properly I think I will be close to the power bank price.
I got a Renogy 2000w inverter forr the £240. Many good reviews.

 

[Odd-no-more]

don't think much of the idea of using power banks in a Motorhome but in this case for a caravan it could be a good solution.

Now you tell me

 

[Reallyretired]

I use a powerbank (ecoflow) in the motorhome and elsewhere.
When in the motorhome it just sits in the garage and has four connections. 240v socket for charging from ehu,12v socket for charging from leisure battery and thus indirectly solar, and one output 240v to a single socket in the hab area and one 12v to my beer coldbox. The mains output is really just hairdryer. Only takes seconds to plug everything in.
My single leisure battery is insufficient to drive an inverter of any significance and fitting a second is not an easy matter.
The coldbox can't be simply connected direct to the leisure battery unless I rewire the socket in the garage which is just piggybacked on the lighting circuit and cannot take the surge of the compressor starting up.

 

[WESTY66]

Ive installed the renogy 2000w inverter and I have 300w of solar and 2x80ah gels and it powers my coffee machine, icemaker, washing machine, and milk frother (not all at the same time)
HOWEVER I’ve just discovered the joys aid the Mokka pot, hence the milk frother, so I probably didn’t need it after all……


Hold the phone, Mrs Westy is buying a SMALL air fryer just to make sure the batteries are knackered

 

[dawsey]

I thought that too about the inverter. Especially when I wired it into all the sockets.

Now though I use it all the time without thinking and it was worth it.

In fact, I even have an extension into the house and run the tumble dryer from the solar when it’s on the drive. So far I have saved £20 in electricity in 2 months so I am getting some payback.

Wow, how many panels must you have to be able to run a tumble dryer ?

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[Googlebot]

Only 350w worth.

It’s a heat pump dryer so only uses about 800 watts.

One load though and it has used all the batteries, 200AH worth. Takes about 2 days this time of year to replenish.

 

[dawsey]

Only 350w worth.

It’s a heat pump dryer so only uses about 800 watts.

One load though and it has used all the batteries, 200AH worth. Takes about 2 days this time of year to replenish.

OK, not powered fully by solar, by the batteries. I understand the idea will be to make use of stuff and reduce energy use, but remember that every time you use them this way you are deeply cycling (and very slowly degrading) your lithium batteries. Have you considered this?

You should get 1500-2000 deep cycles before 20% capacity loss from a half decent modern lithium, this is normally the point where degradation begins to accelerate thus it’s generally considered the ‘worn out’ point.

A ~ 800W condenser dryer will use 2kwhr on a typical 2.5hr cycle (they are slow, we have one). At 12V that’s 170ah with no invertor losses, or close on the full 200ah if the invertor efficiency losses are factored in (i guess this is where your solar may be helping out)

Thus to run your drier for a full 2.5hrs you will absolutely consume your full 200ah of capacity regularly going beyond the min 20% point particularly if the sun is behind cloud during the cycle. You will thus often be completely flattening the batteries on a full cycle.

Your bank is 200ah, and if we assume you paid, let’s say, £1000 for it and we assume that at this ultra heavy cycle use it will be worn out in 1700 cycles (if often discharged beyond the min 20% during cycling, they won’t even last this long, maybe 1250cycles).

Thus, each run is actually costing you between roughly 60p and 80p in terms of the degradation to your camper’s lithiums, which is broadly what you’d pay for 2kwhr of metered electric. Also remember you are also cycling your invertor.

 

[Googlebot]

I agree, but I probably use the dryer say 30 times a year while the sun shines off the solar. I will take that bit of degradation while the Mororhome sits doing nothing.

 

[Langtoftlad]

You should get 1500-2000 deep cycles before 20% capacity loss

3000

 

[dawsey]

I agree, but I probably use the dryer say 30 times a year while the sun shines off the solar. I will take that bit of degradation while the Mororhome sits doing nothing.

Cool. Was just in case you didn’t know. I too connected an invertor to the campers distribution board and it’s great. I used to use our camper as a standby generator when we had power cuts (often happens in middle of nowhere) to keep fridges and lights powered.

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[Langtoftlad]

In my list of why the Anker 757 is a good investment, I hadn't even considered the UPS or power cut at home scenario

 

[dawsey]

3000

Maybe at lower discharge. The plot below illustrates the huge impact that the depth of discharge has. The line has naturally moved up the chart as technology improves (ie ion to ferrous doubled and tripled life), and usefully the profile is flattening (less fall off the cliff). It’s never been good to fully discharge a battery, lithiums while much, much better than lead acid chemistry in this respect are still sensitive to ultra deep discharge.

 

[Langtoftlad]

This would be at lower discharge. The plot below illustrates the huge impact that the depth of discharge has. The line will (and has) naturally moved up the chart as technology improves, but the shape remains broadly the same. It’s never been good to fully discharge a battery, lithiums while much, much better than lead acid chemistry in this respect are still sensitive to ultra deep discharge.

View attachment 771717

All very technical mumbo-jumbo.
Means nothing to me.
All I know, 5 year guarantee and the chances of me doing even 1000 full cycles is minimal.

...but 3000 full cycles is specified.

 

[dawsey]

In my list of why the Anker 757 is a good investment, I hadn't even considered the UPS or power cut at home scenario

Be careful not to accidentally mislead people by repeating/quoting what might be deliberately misleading advertising.

When the seller of that Lithium Ferrous Polymer based ‘power station’ quotes 3000cycles “to 80%” it might mean discharging to 80% capacity, ie not much. 3000 even 10,000 cycles at minimal discharge is now bog standard LeFePo4 capability. The standard for good quality batteries using this same chemistry, as previously stated, is 2000 cycles at 80% discharge which means discharge right down to 20% battery capacity remaining. Maybe you should ask the vendor to clarify.

It might not matter much to you, but not being misled might matter to others. Fact is, anyone can buy a high quality lithium 12V battery and an invertor for roughly half the price of this solution.

 

[Langtoftlad]

Be careful not to accidentally mislead people by repeating/quoting deliberately misleading advertising.

When the seller of that Lithium Ferrous Polymer quotes 3000cycles “to 80%” it means discharging to 80% capacity, ie not much. This is standard LeFePo4. The highest quality batteries using this chemistry, as previously stated, can achieve 1500-2000 cycles at heavy discharge down to 20%.

Sorry don't understand. Mislead?
Are you saying that Anker's specification is factually incorrect?

3000 cycles 1 per day is about 10 years.

Real world 1 cycle a week, it'll outlive me...

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[dawsey]

Sorry don't understand. Mislead?
Are you saying that Anker's specification is factually incorrect?

3000 cycles 1 per day is about 10 years.

Real world 1 cycle a week, it'll outlive me...

I am saying it could be misleading. See earlier post for explanation.

 

[EuroTrotters]

I bought the Anker 757 for £995 on special offer + 5% cashback.

It was the simplest hassle free effective upgrade to my van's electrical system.

• Doubles the battery capacity.
• 1500 psw inverter
• Redundancy if my 6y old batteries fail at an inconvenient time
• More sockets than you can shake a stick at
• Luggable - so you could take mains power to where you want it.
• Pseudo EHU so you can use your van's sockets
• Fast mains rechargeable - lug it to any convenient 240 socket, have a drink & 50mins later it's 80% recharged

All in one 20kg box* (which can be transferred to your next van rather than a lost investment)

*The ecoflow delta 2 is a lot lighter for just a little less capacity, I've no idea why.

So @ 240v 650w how long would that last ,?

 

[Langtoftlad]

See earlier post for explanation.

It's not an "explanation" if it's unintelligible to me.

In the real world, I'm sure no-one is counting.

AFAIK, all these powerbanks* quote the same figure, so it must satisfy the advertising regulators

For example, Ecoflow Delta quote 500 cycles. Their newer Ecoflow Delta 2 lifepo4 quotes 3000...

So as far as the man in the street is concerned, 6x the recharge life.
One of the reasons why I bought the Anker at 999 rather than the Ecoflow at 899.

 

[dawsey]

Ok, as long as you are happy.

 

[Lenny HB]

So @ 240v 650w how long would that last ,?

Allowing for inverter inefficency and discharging from 100% down to 20% approx 1.3 hours.

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