Belgium trip cancelled

[denisejoe]

When people say the infection rate in Europe is better than here do they test the same as here do people have to pay to get tested until every country does the same you can’t compare

 

[pelican]

Im off to tenerife next week ive been double jabbed so i can go,i think the most worrying thing is a country going onto red so youhave to pay £5,000 per couple to quarantine in a hotel

I don't believe most people would consider that it was worth the financial risk

 

[slowdriver]

here When people say the infection rate in Europe is better than here do they test the same as here do people have to pay to get tested until every country does the same you can’t compare

It's a good point. The fact is that confirmed case counts depend heavily on the extent of countries’ very different testing regimes, so higher totals may simply reflect more testing. That's why death rates are a more reliable indicator of the impact of the epidemic at any time in any given country. Even this is problematic because "....countries have different rules for what deaths to include in their official numbers. The most notable difference between countries’ Covid mortality figures is whether or not they include deaths outside hospitals, particularly in care homes. Some countries like France and the UK have even changed which deaths they include during the course of the epidemic."
For that reason the Office for National Statistics in the UK also publish excess date rates - ie the average level of mortality over and above what we would normally occur pre-pandemic for any given time of the year.
The FT has a free to read COVID tracker here:

Coronavirus tracker: the latest figures as countries fight the Covid-19 resurgence | Free to read

The FT analyses the scale of outbreaks and tracks the vaccine rollouts around the world

www.ft.com

and a free tool that allows you to compare any country against up to five others here:

Free to read: Coronavirus tracked: has the epidemic peaked near you?

Find any country or US state in the live-updating and customisable version of the FT’s Covid-19 trajectory graphs

ig.ft.com

Here is the chart for Cumulative deaths attributed for COVID-19 in the UK, France, Germany, Italy, and Spain. You can choose any combination of countries to compare using the tool. In this example I have chosen to show the death rate per 100,000 of population. Ie adjusted for the size of the country. You can also use the tool to track vaccinations, lockdowns, and adjust for dates.In this case I have set it from the start of the pandemic (01/01/2020) It's quite neat.

 

[denisejoe]

It's a good point. The fact is that confirmed case counts depend heavily on the extent of countries’ very different testing regimes, so higher totals may simply reflect more testing. That's why death rates are a more reliable indicator of the impact of the epidemic at any time in any given country. Even this is problematic because "....countries have different rules for what deaths to include in their official numbers. The most notable difference between countries’ Covid mortality figures is whether or not they include deaths outside hospitals, particularly in care homes. Some countries like France and the UK have even changed which deaths they include during the course of the epidemic."
For that reason the Office for National Statistics in the UK also publish excess date rates - ie the average level of mortality over and above what we would normally occur pre-pandemic for any given time of the year.
The FT has a free to read COVID tracker here:

Coronavirus tracker: the latest figures as countries fight the Covid-19 resurgence | Free to read

The FT analyses the scale of outbreaks and tracks the vaccine rollouts around the world

www.ft.com

and a free tool that allows you to compare any country against up to five others here:

Free to read: Coronavirus tracked: has the epidemic peaked near you?

Find any country or US state in the live-updating and customisable version of the FT’s Covid-19 trajectory graphs

ig.ft.com

Here is the chart for Cumulative deaths attributed for COVID-19 in the UK, France, Germany, Italy, and Spain. You can choose any combination of countries to compare using the tool. In this example I have chosen to show the death rate per 100,000 of population. Ie adjusted for the size of the country. You can also use the tool to track vaccinations, lockdowns, and adjust for dates.In this case I have set it from the start of the pandemic (01/01/2020) It's quite neat.




View attachment 562339

And the same goes for deaths
if some dies from a car crash but tested positive they are still classed as died with covid we should have died of covid ?

 

[slowdriver]

And the same goes for deaths
if some dies from a car crash but tested positive they are still classed as died with covid we should have died of covid ?

The graph is of deaths "attributed" to Covid. I doubt very much that a car crash fatality would be "attributed" to COVID, even if the victim tested positive for COVID while simultaneously wearing a gear stick up their nose. AND even if it were so erroneously attributed, for it to have any impact on the overall picture that the graph conveys, i.e. to misrepresent the overall performance of the country charted, such errors would need to be
a) more prevalent in one country rather than another
b) be significant enough to change the overall deaths per 100,000

Neither seems probable does it?

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[denisejoe]

The graph is of deaths "attributed" to Covid. I doubt very much that a car crash fatality would be "attributed" to COVID, even if the victim tested positive for COVID while simultaneously wearing a gear stick up their nose. AND even if it were so erroneously attributed, for it to have any impact on the overall picture that the graph conveys, i.e. to misrepresent the overall performance of the country charted, such errors would need to be
a) more prevalent in one country rather than another
b) be significant enough to change the overall deaths per 100,000

Neither seems probable does it?

It’s deaths within 28 days of a positive test you could be 100 years old but would have died with covid if you tested positive although you could have died of old age at anytime

 

[slowdriver]

It’s deaths within 28 days of a positive test you could be 100 years old but would have died with covid if you tested positive although you could have died of old age at anytime

Yes that's true, and that's why the ONS excess deaths over the long term average are important, although they of course also include the elevated levels of deaths from cancer, heart attacks, strokes etc that may have arisen because of the restricted NHS capacity induced by Covid. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...mber2019to1may2020/28december2019to10july2020

we all have to die from something but the excess deaths figures are a useful way of measuring both covid related deaths and those arising from the collateral damage that COVID produces. Conversely mask wearing and social distancing has reduced the incidence of influenza significantly.

https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/375/bmj-2021-066768.full.pdf

 

[Dutch 68]

Im off to tenerife next week ive been double jabbed so i can go,i think the most worrying thing is a country going onto red so youhave to pay £5,000 per couple to quarantine in a hotel

If that happens you can spend the 5000 to stay longer in Tenerife lol

 

[The Wino]

I think anyone us included (trip booked to Austria in January) who travels in a pandemic and complains if things are altered is either a born optimist or a head in the sand fool. If things alter we'll just suck it up but we booked thinking if we left it until it was certain we could go it would be booked up.

 

[MotorhomersRus]

Should say felt completely safe

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