Battery to Battery charger

[Lenny HB]

Al n Val Just edited above post.

 

[Al n Val]

Sorry don't have a link anymore. I used a 30 amp double pole changeover relay. I used a 240v coil relay so it changes over when on EHU as we very seldom use EHU and it saves battery power. If you use mains a lot you may want to use a relay with a 12v coil.

thanks Lenny

bloody hell if I was still working all this would be in the stores

 

[Lenny HB]

This is what I did.

Lenny's Modding the new Gin Palace

What temperature do you set the controller to switch on the fans Lenny? On the last van I found set to 35 deg worked well fans came on when ambient was 25deg, so I will start there and see how in goes. I think I set the hysteresis to 2 deg the standard setting of 5 is a bit wide. Sorry @Lenny...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[Al n Val]

This is what I did.

Lenny's Modding the new Gin Palace

What temperature do you set the controller to switch on the fans Lenny? On the last van I found set to 35 deg worked well fans came on when ambient was 25deg, so I will start there and see how in goes. I think I set the hysteresis to 2 deg the standard setting of 5 is a bit wide. Sorry @Lenny...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

ah! I started reading your thread on saturday Lenny, it’s very good info so I will carry on today and try to soak it in, but my brain is quickly discharging info on a rapid basis these days and Gin may have something to do with it

 

[IanRJ]

I have a Forte and fitted a Sterling B2B charger recently. To stop the alternator competting witht the B2B I fitted a relay to turn off the power coming into my EC400 when the van is running. This relay is activated by +12V coming from the engine. I used the Sargent circuit diagram to identify this and got the diagram below fro another forum.

I know this is not exactly what you're looking for as you are a much later version of the Sargent kit and using Victron rather than Sterling but the principle should be the same


If I have waded in and added more confusion - apologies




View attachment 468939

Hi Diabalo - thanks for that diagram - its been puzzling me too. Where you interrupt the power to the Sargent box via the relay, does that have an effect on the running of the fridge on 12v when mobile or is that feed (the fridge) direct from the alternator via a fuse?

Also is there not a 20amp fuse in the Sargent that controls the alternator charging of the leisure batteries when the engine is running? If so would pulling this fuse have the same effect as the relay (not suggesting that is the best way - just clarifying the process for myself)?
TIA

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[Al n Val]

hi everyone

so the Victron Orion dc to dc charger is in and appears to be working fine but as always questions questions questions

as some of you may know i have fitted a pair of Leoch Pure Lead Carbon 100ah batteries , am I correct in setting the Victron Charger battery preset to AGM Spiral Cell?

Also on the Victron app opening page it shows the battery state of charge, ie; bulk, absorbtion or float, which is fine. input & output shows voltages but can this be shown as current, i'm pretty sure i've seen this setting on a video showing current charge rather than voltage charge.

i've attached a couple of images to show you what i'm asking

thanks

Al

 

[Raul]

What does the Leoch carbon spec says? Absorb 14,7?
Also why have you limited bulk to 10hrs?

 

[Al n Val]

What does the Leoch carbon spec says? Absorb 14,7?
Also why have you limited bulk to 10hrs?

I suppose what I should have asked is a full breakdown of recommended settings Raul

i've not changed any at all, they are all default apart from the AGM spiral cell one

Al

 

[Raul]

I can not help with the settings of the charger, as long as I don’t know the charging specifications of the leoch carbon. I was asking what is the spec for leoch carbon?

 

[AgeingAndrew]

I think that the float voltage is printed on the battery label, something like 13.65V.
David from 'Cruising the Cut' produced a video in which he says Leoch told him to use 14.1-14.4 for absorption. He discusses charging voltages from about minute 12 onwards.

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[Al n Val]

So i've dug up the spec of the Leoch Lead Carbon batteries for anyone to peruse over, i'm going to set the charging voltage of the Victron DC to DC charger to 14.25v as suggested in the video link posted by Andrew. I'm not fully understanding all the tech stuff but everyday's a school day so they say

and i'll keep you all posted

Al

 

[Raul]

Since you don’t have a temperature compensation setting, and, looking at the battery spec, I would recommend to set absorb to 14,4v and float at 13,65v. Bear in mind that you will be cycling this batteries intermittent. Not every day cycling but not float standby service either. Somewhere middle ground, but ready to be used. This is a B2B and you want to push as much charge as you can in a hr or two driving. The difference from 14,25 to 14,4 means you will be able to squeeze few extra amps in the same amount of time.
Forgot to say, leave the other settings as they are, specially the adaptive charging enabled. That will reduce or eliminate excessive bulk charge when not needed.

 

[Al n Val]

hi Raul
after speaking to the battery suppler i’ve set the charging voltages to 14.7 and 13.65v respectively, as you say it will allow me to squeeze a little more into the batteries.

We are due to “go away” next monday hopefully for 3 nights so i’ll be testing the operation of the system then and let you know how it’s performed.

I wouldn’t say we are heavy users but we’ve not been concerned being on EHU most of the time in the past, time will tell if this investment has been warranted or not.

If anything it looks impressive

Al

 

[Cockers]

lockdown Has been an expensive time I do agree. I have fitted the Victron B2B charger. Directly from the vehicle battery, I fitted a 150A Mega fuse to the vehicle battery 16mm cable to a 30amp circuit breaker then to the B2B then 16mm cable out of the B2B into another 30amp circuit breaker then to the Victron shunt for the negative connection to the leisure battery’s and the positive to the positive battery terminal I haven’t disconnected anything and it works a treat. No issues with the step or fridge. My control unit is the sargent EC500.

 

[Diabalo]

So you are saying that you are running both systems in parallel with out any problems.

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[Pausim]

So you are saying that you are running both systems in parallel with out any problems.

That might be without any “apparent” problems. I have heard that the effects of the unwanted loop can be diminished by poor sized original wiring, where the resistance in the old wires reduces the amount of current leaking back to the engine battery. However, if the leisure battery voltage is higher than the engine battery voltage it is inevitable that some of the B2B’s output will be going round in circles.

 

[Cockers]

Yes, I have read through the threads and look at the one about removing the fuse behind the drivers seat that connects the sargent unit to the vehicle battery, I have tried the B2B with the fuse in and out the only difference is when you look at the Autotrail internal display there is no reading for the vehicle battery with the fuse out. I presume it’s to keep the vehicle battery charged when plugged into the mains but it made no difference at all I think the problem with removing the fuse means when your on site or at home plugged in, the vehicle battery will not be getting any charge and only charging when the vehicle is running.
but to answer you question it works fine on my 2015 Autotrail my control unit is the EC500. I know people like to slag off Gadget John, I have watched his video and my system works exactly the same as his no issues, they run in paralle.
hope this helps

 

[Pausim]

I know people like to slag off Gadget John,

There are good reasons for this.

 

[autorouter]

I fitted a 150A Mega fuse to the vehicle battery 16mm cable to a 30amp circuit breaker then to the B2B then 16mm cable out of the B2B into another 30amp circuit breaker then to the Victron shunt for the negative connection to the leisure battery’s

So have I understood this right - 150A fuse from the starter battery Negative, through 30A breaker to B2B input, then to 30A breaker, then to the Victron shunt and then to the leisure battery Negative terminal.

and the positive to the positive battery terminal

I'm not sure about this bit. The positive of what, to the positive terminal of which battery?

 

[Cockers]

Pausim I totally agree with you about the appalling wiring that Autotrail use but surely If the leisure batteries are fully charged the B2B will switch to float and it would be a minimal amount Of return

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[Cockers]

Yes he does tend to contradict himself and say things are good one month then upgrades them the next

 

[Lenny HB]

There are good reasons for this.

Yep, he hasn't got a clue with electrics, only watch him if you want to know how NOT to do something.

 

[Cockers]

No a 150amp mega fuse is connected directly to the positive terminal on the starter battery which is purely there in case there is any short between the 30amp trip which is connected before the B2B.

 

[Cockers]

Sorry autoroute, that did read like that, I need to check my post before publishing them

 

[AgeingAndrew]

lockdown Has been an expensive time I do agree. I have fitted the Victron B2B charger. Directly from the vehicle battery, I fitted a 150A Mega fuse to the vehicle battery 16mm cable to a 30amp circuit breaker then to the B2B then 16mm cable out of the B2B into another 30amp circuit breaker then to the Victron shunt for the negative connection to the leisure battery’s and the positive to the positive battery terminal I haven’t disconnected anything and it works a treat. No issues with the step or fridge. My control unit is the sargent EC500.

But did you isolate your existing split charge circuit using something like the diagram Diabalo provided?
To see if it's all working properly why not disable the B2B charging by its circuit breaker and then run the engine. If the leisure battery gets any charge from the alternator then it can only be via the existing split charge mechanism. If so, then you have connected the B2B in parallel with the split charge relay and any leisure battery charge current from the alternator will bypass the B2B when the B2B attempts to control the charging current. If this is the case then the B2B is as useful as a £200+ paperweight.

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[Pausim]

Pausim I totally agree with you about the appalling wiring that Autotrail use but surely If the leisure batteries are fully charged the B2B will switch to float and it would be a minimal amount Of return

Unfortunately it may not know the leisure battery is full because the charge will also be being fed back to the engine battery. A good B2B will not only be monitoring the voltage, which is a fickle indicator but also the tail current. Both the voltage and tail currents will be affected by the reverse connection to the engine battery.

 

[Raul]

No a 150amp mega fuse is connected directly to the positive terminal on the starter battery which is purely there in case there is any short between the 30amp trip which is connected before the B2B.

Why? You need to protect the cable NOT the b2b. The 30a fuse starts at the starter, then cable to b2b, then 30a fuse after B2B, then cable to leisure. The fuse is always near the source to protect that route of cable. Forget about the 150a to protect the 16mm. And why breakers? If is stuck will do nada. Best is fusible fuse for 100% protection.

 

[Cockers]

lockdown Has been an expensive time I do agree. I have fitted the Victron B2B charger. Directly from the vehicle battery, I fitted a 150A Mega fuse to the vehicle battery 16mm cable to a 30amp circuit breaker then to the B2B then 16mm cable out of the B2B into another 30amp circuit breaker then to the Victron shunt for the negative connection to the leisure battery’s and the positive to the positive battery terminal I haven’t disconnected anything and it works a treat. No issues with the step or fridge. My control unit is the sargent EC500.

Why? You need to protect the cable NOT the b2b. The 30a fuse starts at the starter, then cable to b2b, then 30a fuse after B2B, then cable to leisure. The fuse is always near the source to protect that route of cable. Forget about the 150a to protect the 16mm. And why breakers? If is stuck will do nada. Best is fusible fuse for 100% protection.

If the cable between the vehicle battery and the B2B gets damaged and shorts out it will damage the vehicle battery, so you need the mega fuse to protect the vehicle battery.

 

[Raul]

If the cable between the vehicle battery and the B2B gets damaged and shorts out it will damage the vehicle battery, so you need the mega fuse to protect the vehicle battery.

You did not read, or misunderstood me. Good luck with 150a mega to protect a 16mm cable. I was pointing out that 150a should be a 30a.

 

[Pausim]

You did not read, or misunderstood me. Good luck with 150a mega to protect a 16mm cable. I was pointing out that 150a should be a 30a.

I think you might be suggesting that the 16mm cable could overheat and set fire to it’s insulation before the 150A fuse blows to save the battery from damage.

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