Battery not charging on EHU

[Yrag]

Hi, I have 2yr old Autotrail F62 Tribute. I've noticed that my Leisure and Vehicle batteries are not charging when I'm on EHU at home. They have done so without problems during the last two years when I've needed to top them up during the winter months when there’s little sun for the solar panel
The EC176 PSU initially showed that the MCB had tripped and the Green Charger light was unlit. So switched everything off, reconnected the EHU, reset the MBC, ( RCD works). All the electrics in the van work but the Sargent Control Panel still doesnt show that the batteries are charging.

So I’ve changed the 15a Charger fuse on the PSU to no effect. There are also 2 x 20a fuses by the Leisure battery. One operates the electric bed which still works and the other seems to operate the Sargent control panel. If I take that fuse out, the Control Panel flashes and beeps, so its not that fuse thats blown.
I'm useless at electrics. Can any one make any other suggestions please, thanks

 

[68c]

Perhaps the charger has a fault and has tripped the MCB.

 

[Yrag]

Perhaps the charger has a fault and has tripped the MCB.

Would that not affect the rest of the Charger which seems to be operating ok. Everything else in the van is working

 

[68c]

Would that not affect the rest of the Charger which seems to be operating ok. Everything else in the van is working

Yes, you are right. Are you certain it is working? If it is not, the 12v side of things would still work from the leisure battery as when off-grid. Can you measure the leisure battery voltage with EHU on and then when unplugged. Turn on some lights to get a true reading. Either use a multimeter or one of those cheap testers from Halfords with the row of LEDs
.

 

[pappajohn]

Everything will work until the battery voltage drops below what appliances need to run.
Put a volt meter on the charger output terminals while hooked up.
If it's working it should be in excess of 14v.
If voltage is lower the chargers knackered .......the low voltage is back feeding from the battery

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[68c]

Deleted, wrong thread. Thanks @Yrag.

 

[Yrag]

Yes, you are right. Are you certain it is working? If it is not, the 12v side of things would still work from the leisure battery as when off-grid. Can you measure the leisure battery voltage with EHU on and then when unplugged. Turn on some lights to get a true reading. Either use a multimeter or one of those cheap testers from Halfords with the row of LEDs
.

The fridge shows that its working on electric. I don't think it works just on the Leisure battery and off grid would only use gas. Never used a multimeter before, something I'm going to have to google

 

[Yrag]

Everything will work until the battery voltage drops below what appliances need to run.
Put a volt meter on the charger output terminals while hooked up.
If it's working it should be in excess of 14v.
If voltage is lower the chargers knackered .......the low voltage is back feeding from the battery

The charger is only two years old and not extensively used. Am I missing a blow fuse located elsewhere in the van?

 

[Yrag]

A Quick google suggest a 100W panel is around 1000mm x 540mm. My two 120W panels looks huge on the roof.

Wrong thread?

 

[68c]

Yep.

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[Tombola]

I think the tribute on the ec176 also has another switch for the power doesn't it...down the back near the beds...have you made sure that's on..

 

[pappajohn]

Never used a multimeter before, something I'm going to have to google

First tool, and possibly the most used, you should buy when getting a motorhome....as cheap as 5 or 6 quid.
Easy to use for basic checks and Plenty of tutorials on Google/youtube

 

[autorouter]

A lead-acid battery such as the leisure or vehicle battery will have a voltage of about 12.7V, down to maybe 12.0V in normal use, with no charging and no loads. It may go below 12.0V if it is very discharged.

When something is charging the battery, its voltage will rise to 13.0V or more. It will get up to about 14.5V when actively charging, and will drop to about 13.5V when the smart charger thinks it's full.

If the charging then stops, the voltage will slowly drop to its 'full resting voltage' of about 12.7V.

Obviously during the day the solar will be contributing, so to get a proper 'resting voltage' you should measure in the dark, with EHU disconnected and the engine not running. Having got the resting voltage, you can try each of the charge sources (EHU, alternator, solar) to see if they raise the voltage to confirm they are working.

 

[68c]

9

The fridge shows that its working on electric.

I assume you mean the fridge works on electric when on EHU. It is running on 240volt AC then. When the engine is running, ie driving around it runs on 12volt DC. When off grid and parked up it runs off gas. The fridge working is not an indication the charger is working.

 

[autorouter]

Are you sure the 240V mains sockets in the MH are working, have you tried using one of them?

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[Hoovie]

Everything will work until the battery voltage drops below what appliances need to run.
Put a volt meter on the charger output terminals while hooked up.
If it's working it should be in excess of 14v.
If voltage is lower the chargers knackered .......the low voltage is back feeding from the battery

A lead-acid battery such as the leisure or vehicle battery will have a voltage of about 12.7V, down to maybe 12.0V in normal use, with no charging and no loads. It may go below 12.0V if it is very discharged.

When something is charging the battery, its voltage will rise to 13.0V or more. It will get up to about 14.5V when actively charging, and will drop to about 13.5V when the smart charger thinks it's full.

If the charging then stops, the voltage will slowly drop to its 'full resting voltage' of about 12.7V.
Obviously during the day the solar will be contributing, so to get a proper 'resting voltage' you should measure in the dark, with EHU disconnected and the engine not running. Having got the resting voltage, you can try each of the charge sources (EHU, alternator, solar) to see if they raise the voltage to confirm they are working.

Just a comment regarding the OPs van .....
The mains charger fitted in HIS Motorhome is a basic Power Supply type of Charger. It puts out a set voltage of 13.8V, so will not tend to go above that voltage. It also means that when the batteries are full and won't take more charge, the voltage will not drop below 13.8V.

Just want to make this point in case when he gets his charger active again he doesn't start to needlessly trouble-shoot for a Voltage under 14V

 

[autorouter]

Just a comment regarding the OPs van .....
The mains charger fitted in HIS Motorhome is a basic Power Supply type of Charger. It puts out a set voltage of 13.8V, so will not tend to go above that voltage. It also means that when the batteries are full and won't take more charge, the voltage will not drop below 13.8V.

Just want to make this point in case when he gets his charger active again he doesn't start to needlessly trouble-shoot for a Voltage under 14V

I'm sure you're right, he says it's a 2 year old van, so I was kind of assuming it would have some kind of smart charger, not something from the Late Bronze Age.

 

[rwg]

Worth knowing that the Ec176 doesn't actually properly measure whether the battery is charging or not... It shows 'Charging' on the display when the measured voltage is 13.3v.

However, if the charger light is on then you would expect the voltage to rise to that point pretty quickly as the charger puts out 13.8v.

I think there is a charger 12v fuse in the main unit that is worth checking if the measured voltage does not rise when you turn the charger on

Cheers, Robin

 

[Hoovie]

I'm sure you're right, he says it's a 2 year old van, so I was kind of assuming it would have some kind of smart charger, not something from the Late Bronze Age.

It is a bit disappointing that the units still being fitted by companies - and still being supplied to them - have not been updated to more modern technology.
The newer high-end Auto Trails have a more advanced Sargent system typically with a 3-stage smart(ish) charger, but the PVC Auto Trails tend to have the older design Sargent units still with a Fixed voltage charger and a relay for a Split-charge.

One of the first things I did with my Auto Trail was to remove all charging responsibility from the Sargent and fitted B2B, Multiplus and MPPTs chargers.

If the OPs charger IS defunct, it is a good opportunity and a great excuse to do what should be done anyway - fit a Smart Charger . But that was not the original question, of course.

 

[Lenny HB]

It is a bit disappointing that the units still being fitted by companies - and still being supplied to them - have not been updated to more modern technology.

That is quite unbelievable, still using the type of units that were in use 40/50 years ago. With that type of charger you thought you were doing well if the battery lasted more than 2 years.

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[jordy74]

when ihad this problem it was a broken earth wire.It was exactly the same problem.

 

[Tykeboy]

Hi, I have 2yr old Autotrail F62 Tribute. I've noticed that my Leisure and Vehicle batteries are not charging when I'm on EHU at home. They have done so without problems during the last two years when I've needed to top them up during the winter months when there’s little sun for the solar panel
The EC176 PSU initially showed that the MCB had tripped and the Green Charger light was unlit. So switched everything off, reconnected the EHU, reset the MBC, ( RCD works). All the electrics in the van work but the Sargent Control Panel still doesnt show that the batteries are charging.

So I’ve changed the 15a Charger fuse on the PSU to no effect. There are also 2 x 20a fuses by the Leisure battery. One operates the electric bed which still works and the other seems to operate the Sargent control panel. If I take that fuse out, the Control Panel flashes and beeps, so its not that fuse thats blown.
I'm useless at electrics. Can any one make any other suggestions please, thanks

Hi, we too have an Autotrail F62 which has been parked at the back of our house for 6 weeks while we were visiting relatives in Spain. When we got back the vehicle wouldn't unlock using the remote key and the dashboard was completely dead. I tried jumpstarting from the car which has a new battery (fitted this summer) but it wouldn't start. I have connected a charger and it appears to be charging. Before that I connected the EHU and whilst the control panel said the leisure battery was charging, it didn't say that the vehicle battery was. This sounds similar to your problem, I wondered if the problem had been resolved.

Our vehicle is a 23 plate.

 

[GeoffnDee]

Tykeboy I think you will find that If your PSU is a Sargent EC176 you need to select the starter battery through habitation control panel for the inbuilt charger to charge it , otherwise it only normally charges the leisure battery. www.sargentltd.co.uk has information regarding this in its Support / Knowledge base , section

 

[Tombola]

Tykeboy I think you will find that If your PSU is a Sargent EC176 you need to select the starter battery through habitation control panel for the inbuilt charger to charge it , otherwise it only charges the leisure battery. www.sargentltd.co.uk has information regarding this in its Support / Knowledge base , section

That's right, there is a manual black switch on some of them too that needs flicking.
Mine had been wired the wrong way round in the factory, so choosing leisure chose cab .

 

[Tykeboy]

Tykeboy I think you will find that If your PSU is a Sargent EC176 you need to select the starter battery through habitation control panel for the inbuilt charger to charge it , otherwise it only normally charges the leisure battery. www.sargentltd.co.uk has information regarding this in its Support / Knowledge base , section

Hi mate, thanks for that, I had assumed that on EHU, both batteries would be charged, I'll check it out tomorrow.

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[Tykeboy]

Tykeboy I think you will find that If your PSU is a Sargent EC176 you need to select the starter battery through habitation control panel for the inbuilt charger to charge it , otherwise it only normally charges the leisure battery. www.sargentltd.co.uk has information regarding this in its Support / Knowledge base , section

Yes you're right, I've switched to vehicle battery and it is now charging, However, the leisure battery is still saying charging. Is that normal?

 

[GeoffnDee]

When on starter battery charging the leisure side 12v loads are still being supplied through the charger and I expect this is the voltage being shown.
If you fit a Vanbitz battery master you can leave the leisure battery on charge and it will trickle charge your starter battery from the leisure battery helping to avoid a flat starter battery when parked up.
It is not an expensive item and is very easy to fit.

 

[CAB96]

Yes you're right, I've switched to vehicle battery and it is now charging, However, the leisure battery is still saying charging. Is that normal?

Maybe it is being charged through the normal vehicle charging?

i.e. how it charges when driving.

Some simpler systems will turn the charger on when the vehicle battery gets to a certain voltage, they assume the alternator is charging the vehicle battery so start charging the hab battery.

 

[Cush]

Some simpler systems will turn the charger on when the vehicle battery gets to a certain voltage, they assume the alternator is charging the vehicle battery so start charging the hab battery.

That makes sense.

Like a voltage sensing relay. I think the simplest voltage sensing relay needs a d+ signal

 

[Tykeboy]

Maybe it is being charged through the normal vehicle charging?

i.e. how it charges when driving.

Some simpler systems will turn the charger on when the vehicle battery gets to a certain voltage, they assume the alternator is charging the vehicle battery so start charging the hab battery.

The leisure battery definitely charges while driving as well as the vehicle battery of course. I might invest in a Battery Master as suggested earlier.

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