Auto-Trail Tracker RB, 2013 has an EC500 Issue.

[PeterV]

On battery only, if the water pump (high power) is used the voltage on the EC300 display panel drops to between 11.8V and 12.2V unless it’s daylight and the solar is working or the vehicle is connected to electric hook up. When the error occurs the battery voltage remains at 12.7V when measured across the two brand new leisure batteries.​

When on EHU or good Solar the voltage across the leisure batteries is 13.4V to 13.6V and this matches the EC300 display. On high power the EC300 display shows 13.2V on solar and EHU. There is a momentary peak on EHU of 14V when pump is shut off.​

The voltage measured across the Aux 12V power socket with a voltmeter at the rear of the motor home matches the EC300 display panel readings at all times. The low power drain reading is 12.6V and high power draw (water pump) reading is 11.8V +/- 0.4.​

So far, in attempts to resolve the issue I have fitted 2 new leisure batteries cabled in correctly using the main and auxiliary power connectors to the EC500.
I have also fitted new Victron Energy SmartSolar MPPT 75V 15 amp 12/24-Volt Solar Charge Controller (Bluetooth). Readings on the Victron App for this unit match the readings on the EC300 display panel for charge rate.

All clues and sugestions welcome...

 

[Cush]

Does your voltage reading bounce back up once the pump has stopped running. On my van any draw or load drops the 12v voltage reading. I think that’s fairly normal. Any idea how many amps your pump draws?

and welcome

 

[PeterV]

Thanks Cush. The voltage reading climbs back up slowly when pump switches off. Gets back to near the pre pump switch on volatge after 10 to 20 secs. Pump draws a little over 2.5 amps, which is nothing really. I can make the same thing happen if I turn on 2 TV's. One (simple TV) draws 1A the other (Smart networked with Chrome Cast) draws1.3A. If I try to run the pump as well the smart TV crashes and goes to stand by due to low volatge 11.6V - 11.8V. It seems the EC500 power supply colapses if more that 1.5A is drawn from the unit.

If it's got good solar or EHU volatge holds up well. Going to find some other devices to see if I can draw more amps and see if can get this Senario to to cuase the same issue.

I have rasised a support ticket at Sargent to see what they say, but that may take some time and I'm in the van this week.

 

[PhilandMena]

This is normal, ignore.

 

[PeterV]

Errrm difficult to ignore when the TV's crashes or switches off. Also difficult to ignore when the EC500 switches over to vehicle battery because the EC500 saw the leisure battery go down to unusable levels. This can’t be normal surely?

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[PhilandMena]

Errrm difficult to ignore when the TV's crashes or switches off. Also difficult to ignore when the EC500 switches over to vehicle battery because the EC500 saw the leisure battery go down to unusable levels. This can’t be normal surely?

Yes! I agree. I was not aware this too was happening and I would wait to see how Sargent respond.
On my system I often see a lower reading on the EC 500 once a load has been applied to the battery and I consider this to be a normal state.
I hope your issue is resolved soon.

 

[Cush]

How old are your batteries? What chemistry are they? Do you feel that it empties quickly and charges back to full quickly?

 

[PeterV]

Batteries are 1 week old charged, as a pair for 24 hours before installation. They were 3 years old and same issue, but are now brand spanky new. Deep cycle leisure lead. Exactly what Auto-Trail / Sargent states in the manual. Problem is the same with single battery or two even swapped the two over to make sure I've not got a duff new one.

 

[chippie]

Have you checked the settings within the ec300, battery capacity in amps and Volt settings for max and min etc..I have a ec480 which gave false readings when these had been set incorrectly.

 

[PeterV]

Batteries are 1 week old. Charged as a pair for 24 hours before installation. They were 3 years old and same issue, but are now brand spanky new. Deep cycle leisure lead. Exactly what Auto-Trail / Sargent states in the manual. Problem is the same, with single battery or two, even swapped over to make sure I've not got a duff new one.

Voltage measured across each or both batteries is good. Never see the 11.8V that the EC300 display shows or that the rear power socket measures. Even gone to the extent of using two multi-meters. One on the batteries and one on the remote power socket. Batteries good never below 12.7V. Remote power socket 11.8V on load. The EC300 display is not telling untruths, in fact it is very accurate. EC300 shows charge rate / discharge rate exactly the same as the Victron Solar App and the voltages exactly the same multi-meter on the 12V power socket.

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[Diabalo]

Sounds like a dodgy connection from the batteries to the EC500 if you are saying the battery voltage is ok at the terminals when it happens.

 

[Cush]

Batteries are 1 week old. Charged as a pair for 24 hours before installation. They were 3 years old and same issue, but are now brand spanky new. Deep cycle leisure lead. Exactly what Auto-Trail / Sargent states in the manual. Problem is the same, with single battery or two, even swapped over to make sure I've not got a duff new one.

Voltage measured across each or both batteries is good. Never see the 11.8V that the EC300 display shows or that the rear power socket measures. Even gone to the extent of using two multi-meters. One on the batteries and one on the remote power socket. Batteries good never below 12.7V. Remote power socket 11.8V on load. The EC300 display is not telling untruths, in fact it is very accurate. EC300 shows charge rate / discharge rate exactly the same as the Victron Solar App and the voltages exactly the same multi-meter on the 12V power socket.

I’d contact Sargent like you have. They are usually very helpful to respond but I’d also phone them if it’s urgent. can you check the settings chippie suggested?

 

[PeterV]

All settings on EC300 checked and set as per manual, there really aren't that many. As a I said before the readings on the EC300 display match exactly the multi-meter readings I measure from the 12V wiring of the van at the rear 12V power socket (within +/- 0.2V max). Battery drain current is good as well (+/-0.1A). Drain current was only checked using one battery as it's hard to break into both battery harnesses at the same time. Solar in current is the same as the Victron Solar App (within +/- 0.05A). Smart solar charge switch over of the batteries working perfectly.

These values and measurements have not changed after going through all the settings on the EC300.

It really seems to be the EC500 power supply is folding when ever asked to supply current. With EHU or Good Solar backing up the EC500 it all works, but left on its own the power unit fails under load. I'm going to wait for reply from Sargent before ripping the unit out just in case they know something I'm not aware of. As [B]Diabalo[/B] said, maybe I'll find something iffy on the EC500 wiring once I start pulling it to bits.

 

[PhilandMena]

I have had one occasion when watching TV at night (Solar working OK but not supplying power as no light) and noticed the picture on my tv was getting darker (Avtex) I then got a low voltage warning on the TV and upon checking the Sargent system the display was showing below 11.0 Volts. I switched the TV off and the voltage reading climed back up. This only happened the once and going forward I did not have this problem again. My batteries were L.A and 4 years old but well maintained with plenty of solar and never being discharged below 75% of their total capacity.
After reading your post, I suspect its a Sargent system issue rather than a battery issue and hopefully Sargent can advise you accordingly.
It would be helpful to members if you post the solution to your problem on here as far too many members seek help but then fail to post how there problem was solved. Best of Luck.

 

[PeterV]

Thanks PhilandMena I will certainly add to this thread as I discover more

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[TheCaller]

Voltage measured across each or both batteries is good. Never see the 11.8V that the EC300 display shows or that the rear power socket measures. Even gone to the extent of using two multi-meters. One on the batteries and one on the remote power socket. Batteries good never below 12.7V. Remote power socket 11.8V on load. The EC300 display is not telling untruths, in fact it is very accurate. EC300 shows charge rate / discharge rate exactly the same as the Victron Solar App and the voltages exactly the same multi-meter on the 12V power socket.

Sounds like a dodgy connection from the batteries to the EC500 if you are saying the battery voltage is ok at the terminals when it happens.

This seems to be the key to the issue. The voltage drop is between the batteries & the EC300.
The batteries have just been replaced, so the battery terminal connections are likely to be ok. Where does the battery negative cable go to? Have you got a poor connection to the vehicle chassis? Remove, clean up, replace.

If that doesn't work, then I would trace the cable from the battery positive to the EC300. If that is difficult, but you can get to the battery positive connection on the EC300, you could string a temporary wire direct from the battery to the EC300 & see if the problem goes away.

I assume that this is a new problem - that it all worked ok in the past?

 

[Diabalo]

This seems to be the key to the issue. The voltage drop is between the batteries & the EC300.
The batteries have just been replaced, so the battery terminal connections are likely to be ok. Where does the battery negative cable go to? Have you got a poor connection to the vehicle chassis? Remove, clean up, replace.

If that doesn't work, then I would trace the cable from the battery positive to the EC300. If that is difficult, but you can get to the battery positive connection on the EC300, you could string a temporary wire direct from the battery to the EC300 & see if the problem goes away.

I assume that this is a new problem - that it all worked ok in the past?

If it's the same as mine the pos&neg wiring from the hab batts go direct to the EC500 not the EC300 as that is just the control/display panel.

 

[TheCaller]

If it's the same as mine the pos&neg wiring from the hab batts go direct to the EC500 not the EC300 as that is just the control/display panel.

Ah - sorry. Not a Sargent user so hadn't realised the distinction. Just picked up the reference to the EC300 from the OP's post. If the EC500 is the main unit & the EC300 is just the display, then yes - I agree with you that it's the battery to EC500 wiring that needs checking.

 

[PeterV]

There are two cable harnesses that run from the batteries to the EC500. One 20A fused harness from each of the two leisure batteries. Doesn’t matter which one I use (or both) the fault is the same. If it is a bad connection I’m guessing it will be a common earth point, as two bad harnesses would be a little freaky (but freaky does happen). PS I'm getting really good at throwing this blanket over the solar panel Having said that I'm not entirely sure if the two harnesses go to different connectors on the EC500, maybe they go to the same input?

 

[Barti Ddu]

What is the cross section of the cable between the batteries and the Sargent unit, and how long is the run? British manufacturers have a bad reputation for fitting undersized cables resulting in voltage drop.

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[PeterV]

Haven't actually measured but I'd say 2.5mm cross section cores on each cable harness, two harnesses so not bad amount of copper IMHO. Much better than the wiring from solar controller to EC500, which looks to be 1mm and is on my list for replacement after fixing this issue.

 

[Barti Ddu]

Useful thread here (with links to external sources of info) regarding inadequate 12v cabling and voltage drop.

Thread 'battery cable size guage?' https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/battery-cable-size-guage.241435/

 

[PeterV]

thank you Barti Ddu

 

[Diabalo]

Just had a look at mine and the wires are about 2.5mm for pos/neg for each battery they connect to the EC500 on the PCB by a 4 pin plug so 2 pos and 2 neg. I would have the EC500 out unplug the hab battery harness plug and check the voltage there. The EC500 is easily pulled out once the 4 screws are removed. There is a schematic for the EC500 in resources I believe, that shows which of the plugs is from the hab battery.

 

[PeterV]

The battery to Auto-Trail loom cables are purchased from Sargent and plug into the Auto-Trail loom with the same size wiring, so I'm thinking they will do the job unless Auto-trail and Sargent have messed up? I've already replaced the original and fitted a new one for the 2nd battery. Again this didn't solve the issue.

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[PeterV]

Just had a look at mine and the wires are about 2.5mm for pos/neg for each battery they connect to the EC500 on the PCB by a 4 pin plug so 2 pos and 2 neg. I would have the EC500 out unplug the hab battery harness plug and check the voltage there. The EC500 is easily pulled out once the 4 screws are removed. There is a schematic for the EC500 in resources I believe, that shows which of the plugs is from the hab battery.

Thank you Diabalo. Will pull the unit once I'm safe at home again. Maybe it's that 4 pin on the EC500 that's not good/lose/burnt etc.

 

[Diabalo]

Thank you Diabalo. Will pull the unit once I'm safe at home again. Maybe it's that 4 pin on the EC500 that's not good/lose/burnt etc.

At least you have somewhere to start looking, I'm away at the moment so don't want to pull mine out to see which one you need to check. I normally have the wiring schematic with me but I had it at home for some reason and forgot to put it back on the van. If it's not on resources a quick Google for auto-trail wiring diagram brings it up for the EC500.

 

[PhilandMena]

This may help.

 

[PeterV]

This may help.

That's brill. Thank you

 

[PeterV]

Home for a brief stop over so took out the EC500. As previously stated its dead quick and simple 4 screws, took longer find the last one after gravity grabbed it, and Pull the unit out. All clean and tidy found no spiders or burnt bits of smells of burnt bits. Found the leisure battery terminal, removed and sprayed with contact cleaner. Replaced and tested. Right now it all seems to be working but I’m going to leave it powered up and cycle in though a few simulated nights uses. Water sensors are still as bizarre as ever even after a good scrub of connections. Freshwater guess-o-meter says empty or 50% full depending on when the EC500 is switched on. Waste water guess-o-meter says 0% or 100% again depending on EC500 reset. But I can live with those issues. Will report back in a day or two once fully tested.