Another "which battery" question!

Pablo19

Pablo19

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I'll start with my typical usage. I'm normally happy to stay at CLs and pay for EHU (mainly for charging ebikes and to use an airfryer. I have done a continental trip and intend doing more so odd nights here and there off grid and also stop at pubs off grid but I definitely wouldn't say I'm a heavy power user.

I'm not great on electrics but I currently have what I believe to be 100W solar, a Dometic MCA1250 charger, a Solar Technologies controller (not MPPT), no B2B that I can see and I don't know whether my Ducato on a 20 plate has a smart alternator or not. My failing battery is a Banner AGM.

My online research tells me that AGM is generally a better solution compared to wet or gel although this forum doesn't appear to agree with those findings with AGM generally slated. My Banner is only 3 years old so I am nervous about repeating that so looking now considering gel. I was also looking at lead carbon but my battery space is limiting that option, only 190mm of height to play with. I don't think I can justify the cost of lithium, new charger, b2b, inverter etc for my light use so my choices are fairly limited. Which of these would be best for my usage, one is a gel, the other an AGM? Or any other suggestions? Thanks

Exide

Yuasa
 
We all know what Lenny thinks about AGM😉 however for the way you are using yours I would think they are alright we have two Varta 95ah AGMs on our van from new now just over Five years old and 160w solar and they are still performing well Using EHU when on longer stays at a site However we are committing to lithium soon as we would like to be more independent of EHU 😊
 
Thanks Speve. These would fit mine as well so that's worth bearing in mind. Until someone puts me off!
 
I think a lot depends on how you use them for example Lennyhb very rarely uses EHU so his use is hard on batteries and he found AGMs were no good for him, we have the same van a year younger and have been using AGMs as stated without problem but we use EHU more but still do a fair bit of wilding but not anything like Lenny.😊

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Hi Pablo. I have a Knaus Sun Ti and have done quite a lot of upgrading on the batteries, chargers and solar. Currently have 200Ah of LifePO4 and Votronic 50A B2B. Possibly went a bit over the top in retrospect but it all works beautifully together for us. We tend to do long European trips, often off grid, and charge two Bosch Ebike batteries. We are on a 20 plate and have a smart alternator.
I suspect Lenny HB will be along to give his opinion on Banner batteries. I would recommend changing your solar controller to MPPT. We use Votronic. I have very limited technical knowledge but received a lot of excellent advice on here.
 
I generally fit GEL, especially if they are in the hab area.. ie under the van seats.

Advantages of Gel batteries
  • Best suited for Deep cycle applications and their life is generally in the 500 to 5000 cycles range.
  • Maintenance free.
  • Spill proof.
  • Minimal corrosion therefore compatible with sensitive electronic equipment.
  • Rugged and vibration-resistant.
  • Very safe as less risk of sulphuric acid burns.

In addition, gel batteries resist sulfation, can last up to 20 years, as opposed to flooded batteries, which have a 5-year lifespan.
 
I would fit gel, two if possible, if only one I would try and get another solar panel on the roof and possibly a decent mppt controller.. which ever you decide isn’t going to break the bank and if you can diy would be cheep but it will double your capacity…😎
 
Speve said:
I think a lot depends on how you use them for example Lennyhb very rarely uses EHU so his use is hard on batteries and he found AGMs were no good for him, we have the same van a year younger and have been using AGMs as stated without problem but we use EHU more but still do a fair bit of wilding but not anything like Lenny.😊
Click to expand...
Thanks. I also posted a similar question on a Knaus Facebook forum and the advice I received there was that AGM batteries are not good with the Dometic charger that is fitted and many others. Explained much better than I could in the link below. It would explain why mine has only lasted 3 years as well.

AGM Link

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cyberyacht said:
Having swapped to Lithium, I have an 82AH Exide Gel sitting in my Garage that you can have for £50. PM me if interested
Click to expand...
Thanks for the offer cyberyacht. How old is it and how long has it been sitting in your garage?! Also the transport could be an issue, you aren't a million miles away but far enough!
 
Chrisvh said:
Hi Pablo. I have a Knaus Sun Ti and have done quite a lot of upgrading on the batteries, chargers and solar. Currently have 200Ah of LifePO4 and Votronic 50A B2B. Possibly went a bit over the top in retrospect but it all works beautifully together for us. We tend to do long European trips, often off grid, and charge two Bosch Ebike batteries. We are on a 20 plate and have a smart alternator.
I suspect Lenny HB will be along to give his opinion on Banner batteries. I would recommend changing your solar controller to MPPT. We use Votronic. I have very limited technical knowledge but received a lot of excellent advice on here.
Click to expand...
That sounds fantastic. Maybe I should splash out, I'm hoping to retire within the next couple of years and want to do some longer trips when I get more time. How do you know you have a smart alternator? Do you still have the Dometic charger that came with the van? Do you also have an inverter presumably? Where do you come from in SA btw, I have a load of family out there!
 
Hi Pablo. We replaced the Dometic charger as it did not have lithium settings. We went all Votronic. Being electronically challenged I just wanted it all to work together. I am sure that someone who knows what they are talking about will tell us there was no need. We also fitted a Sunshine Solar 2000W pure sine wave inverter which happened to be on offer at the time. Runs coffee machine and every thing else without trouble. We can charge bike batteries if necessary off the inverter. A few hours solar in summer will fully replenish the batteries or the B2B will do the same with 2-3 hours driving system works well for me.
We have stop-start on our MH which I believe means a smart alternator. But to be honest I am not 100% sure.
 
Speve said:
I think a lot depends on how you use them for example Lennyhb very rarely uses EHU so his use is hard on batteries and he found AGMs were no good for him, we have the same van a year younger and have been using AGMs as stated without problem but we use EHU more but still do a fair bit of wilding but not anything like Lenny.😊
Click to expand...
The Vata AGM appear to perform better than most but I would still never use AGM for a leisure battery IMO the worst possible choice.

As for Banner AGM's probably the worst battery on the planet, had two in my last van they lasted 18 months, others have had Banner fail in under a year and even worse Banner don't honour their warranty.

I have 3 Gels in my van 2 are 7 years old, one is 6 years old they are still performing like new.

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scotjimland said:
I generally fit GEL, especially if they are in the hab area.. ie under the van seats.

Advantages of Gel batteries
  • Best suited for Deep cycle applications and their life is generally in the 500 to 5000 cycles range.
  • Maintenance free.
  • Spill proof.
  • Minimal corrosion therefore compatible with sensitive electronic equipment.
  • Rugged and vibration-resistant.
  • Very safe as less risk of sulphuric acid burns.

In addition, gel batteries resist sulfation, can last up to 20 years, as opposed to flooded batteries, which have a 5-year lifespan.
Click to expand...
Our two 7 Year old Trojan Gel Batteries are still going strong

As is our 14 year old Trojan Wet Cell battery. That has been used on a two motorhomes, sat in the shed on the shelf, now used in our caravan.

Unlike mountains of the Generic Leisure wet cell/sealed VRLA and Varta Car/Van Batteries we have gone through.

Including the Massive Victron AGM Battery that wasn't worth its weight in Scrap thanks to someone setting the charger wrongly I suspect
 
Last edited:
If I recall, I paid £360 for two, not one !

www.tayna.co.uk

27-GEL Trojan Deep Cycle Battery

Trojan Deep Cycle Gel Batteries Trojan's Deep cycle Gel Batteries have a longer cycle life than other Gel technologies, particularly for heavy duty applications where they are best in class. They have a long lasting runtime and battery life for the most demanding of applications. They are built...
www.tayna.co.uk www.tayna.co.uk
 
Just found the Receipt (I am nerd)

£360 for two in 2016 delivered from these people. But gone up a bit but great price compared to others

Trojan 27-GEL 12V Deep-Cycle Gel

Trojan 27-Gel 12V Deep-Cycle Gel Battery - Trojan Battery Company is the world’s leading manufacturer of deep-cycle batteries.Trojan 27-GEL 12V Deep-Cycle Gel Battery - Trojan Battery Company is the world’s leading manufacturer of deep-cycle batteries.Tro
www.plymouthbattery.co.uk www.plymouthbattery.co.uk
 
EuroTrotters said:
Our two 7 Year old Trojan Gel Batteries are still going strong

As is our 14 year old Trojan Wet Cell battery. That has been used on a two motorhomes, sat in the shed on the shelf, now used in our caravan.

Unlike mountains of the Generic Leisure wet cell/sealed VRLA and Varta Car/Van Batteries we have gone through.

Including the Massive Victron AGM Battery that wasn't worth its weight in Scrap thanks to someone setting the charger wrongly I suspect
Click to expand...
Thanks. I suspect my charger isn't set correctly as well. The Trojans are unfortunately too high for my battery compartment but there is an Exide that fits. I'm still considering changing to Lithium though, can't make up my mind. I now know my charger would be ok with the DIP switches configured correctly but I would still need a B2B, MPPT solar controller and maybe more solar as well. Then it would be daft not to get an inverter so it quickly ramps the cost up!
 
We changed from 2 x lead acid 110a to 2 x Sonnenchein gel batteries bought used off a funster last year and have been pleased with them, lower amps but perform better.
www.tayna.co.uk

GF12065Y Sonnenschein Battery (GF1265Y / GF 12 65 Y)

GF 12 65 Y Sonnenschein GEL/VRLA Battery Sonnenschein is owned by the battery manufacturing giant Exide. With over 130 years in the battery business, Exide are known for their quality in the industry. Sonnenschein were one of the first companies to develop VRLA GEL batteries and to this day they...
www.tayna.co.uk www.tayna.co.uk

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Manic said:
We changed from 2 x lead acid 110a to 2 x Sonnenchein gel batteries bought used off a funster last year and have been pleased with them, lower amps but perform better.
www.tayna.co.uk

GF12065Y Sonnenschein Battery (GF1265Y / GF 12 65 Y)

GF 12 65 Y Sonnenschein GEL/VRLA Battery Sonnenschein is owned by the battery manufacturing giant Exide. With over 130 years in the battery business, Exide are known for their quality in the industry. Sonnenschein were one of the first companies to develop VRLA GEL batteries and to this day they...
www.tayna.co.uk www.tayna.co.uk
Click to expand...
A good battery that's what my three are. Sonnenschine make the Exide Gel, either battery is a great battery just buy whichever one is cheaper at the time.
 
Lenny HB said:
A good battery that's what my three are. Sonnenschine make the Exide Gel, either battery is a great battery just buy whichever one is cheaper at the time.
Click to expand...
Does the 75mah compared to the Exide 85ah make any difference to performance?
 
Pablo19 said:
Does the 75mah compared to the Exide 85ah make any difference to performance?
Click to expand...
The Exide G80/ES900 is actually 80 ah and the Sonnenschine is miss quoted on Tanya's site as 75ah when it's actually 78ah so naff all difference.
Recently the Exide has been cheaper.
 
Pablo19 said:
Thanks. I suspect my charger isn't set correctly as well. The Trojans are unfortunately too high for my battery compartment but there is an Exide that fits. I'm still considering changing to Lithium though, can't make up my mind. I now know my charger would be ok with the DIP switches configured correctly but I would still need a B2B, MPPT solar controller and maybe more solar as well. Then it would be daft not to get an inverter so it quickly ramps the cost up!
Click to expand...
Oh it does. Especially when you want quality, reliable kit.
 
Alpha Batteries do a special guide to AGM batteries, probably because they are easily damaged if not charged properly. They are pretty scathing about charger manufacturers who use phrases such as “may be suitable” for charging AGM.
www.alpha-batteries.co.uk

A Detailed Guide to AGM Batteries - Alpha Batteries

With AGM products becoming more widespread in their use, knowing when you can or should use one and how to look after it properly is all the more important - our guide is here to help.
www.alpha-batteries.co.uk www.alpha-batteries.co.uk

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Ok, I think I have decided (eventually) to buy 2 of the Exide/Sonnenshein gel batteries and install them myself. I understand how to connect them in paralell but can you advise if I should be looking to put a fuse in between batteries? Should I charge each battery as a single battery first before connecting them together or is that not necessary with modern battery technology?

Thanks
 
No need for a fuse between batteries…😎

1693396724709.jpeg
 
Pablo19 said:
I'll start with my typical usage. I'm normally happy to stay at CLs and pay for EHU (mainly for charging ebikes and to use an airfryer. I have done a continental trip and intend doing more so odd nights here and there off grid and also stop at pubs off grid but I definitely wouldn't say I'm a heavy power user.

I'm not great on electrics but I currently have what I believe to be 100W solar, a Dometic MCA1250 charger, a Solar Technologies controller (not MPPT), no B2B that I can see and I don't know whether my Ducato on a 20 plate has a smart alternator or not. My failing battery is a Banner AGM.

My online research tells me that AGM is generally a better solution compared to wet or gel although this forum doesn't appear to agree with those findings with AGM generally slated. My Banner is only 3 years old so I am nervous about repeating that so looking now considering gel. I was also looking at lead carbon but my battery space is limiting that option, only 190mm of height to play with. I don't think I can justify the cost of lithium, new charger, b2b, inverter etc for my light use so my choices are fairly limited. Which of these would be best for my usage, one is a gel, the other an AGM? Or any other suggestions? Thanks

Exide

Yuasa
Click to expand...
We have a 2020 SunTi here in Germany with the stock MCA1225 charger, Schaudt WA121525 B2B charger, 200W Solar with a Büttner (PP) charger. We are heavy electricity consumers with our Espressomaker using a 2000W Limopower inverter. Until recently, we had two 95Ah banner AGM. Unfortunately, despite never been discharged below 50% they did not hold their capacity after 3years of use. I have now installed two 150Ah Ultimatron LiFePo batteries (which is probably way over the top for your used case). Those batteries are less than 190mm high, which means they fit nicely into the very tight battery compartment of the SunTi.

There is no need to change the charger, as you can set the voltage using dip-switches (mouse-piano).
 
Fattiger said:
We have a 2020 SunTi here in Germany with the stock MCA1225 charger, Schaudt WA121525 B2B charger, 200W Solar with a Büttner (PP) charger. We are heavy electricity consumers with our Espressomaker using a 2000W Limopower inverter. Until recently, we had two 95Ah banner AGM. Unfortunately, despite never been discharged below 50% they did not hold their capacity after 3years of use. I have now installed two 150Ah Ultimatron LiFePo batteries (which is probably way over the top for your used case). Those batteries are less than 190mm high, which means they fit nicely into the very tight battery compartment of the SunTi.

There is no need to change the charger, as you can set the voltage using dip-switches (mouse-piano).
Click to expand...
Hi Fattiger. Thank you for the explanation but I don't believe that I have a Shaudt B2B charger. I certainly haven't been able to find it if I have! My Banner also doesn't hold capacity so although I'm not a heavy user I need more than that can give for sure! I have actually just bid for 2 Exide ES900 (same as Sonnenshein) batteries on ebay that have come out of a brand new Carthago that is immediately being upgraded with Lithium batteries. Someone else suggested the Ultimatron batteries as some that would fit but I was put off by the additional cost of a new MPPT Solar controller, B2B charger and probably more solar as well and I don't do enough off grid to justify it. I will be annoyed with m,yself if I do already have a B2B hiding somewhere but I believe it may be just German spec.
 
So, if I change my flooded battery for an AGM do I need to change the standard Elddis (2016) onboard charger as well?
I have a ctec bench charger which has the different settings.
We have 100w solar which via a MTTP controller which charges hab and trickles the starter battery (flooded)

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