A possible answer to the Diesel problem?

[StephDeLux]

How many petrol or diesel vehicles and meat eating humans around then ??

About 3 million years ago, the Earth was just a couple of degrees warmer than it is today — and global sea levels were 53 feet higher

About 3 million years ago, Earth was just a few degrees warmer than it is now. Mediterranean cave deposits reveal that sea levels were 53 feet higher.

www.businessinsider.com

I had no idea the SUV was already invented back then

 

[buttons]

Water vapor (H20) is a greenhouse gas 100 times stronger than CO2. It was never about saving anything.

I'm no scientist SB, How does that work. Condensation generally occurs in the atmosphere when warm air rises and cools forming cloud droplets returning to earth.

 

[autorouter]

About 3 million years ago, the Earth was just a couple of degrees warmer than it is today — and global sea levels were 53 feet higher

About 3 million years ago, Earth was just a few degrees warmer than it is now. Mediterranean cave deposits reveal that sea levels were 53 feet higher.

www.businessinsider.com

I think this is just a piece of well-intended but misguided journalism. The actual words of the scientist who did the research were:
"Sea level changes at Artà Cave can be caused by the melting and growing of ice sheets or by uplift or subsidence of the island itself," lead author of the new study Jacky Austermann said in a press release.

The Arta caves are on Mallorca, which as you know is an island in the Mediterranean. The background to this is, the African tectonic plate is pushing northwards against the European plate, and there are lines of folding which are basically east-west. The upfolds are the mountains of Spain (Pyrenees, Sierra Nevada etc) and the Atlas Mountains in Morocco. The downfold has filled with water and is the Mediterranean Sea. There's a bit of a ripple going east-west from Spain, and the top of it is sticking out above the water, making the Balearic Islands, including Mallorca.

Over a timescale of millions of years the land rises and falls, in areas where the tectonic plates are pushing against each other. That's how mountains form, and why there are earthquakes and volcanoes.

So the idea that Mallorca has risen by 20 to 30 metres over three million years is entirely unsurprising in this context.

 

[Larrynwin]

I think this is just a piece of well-intended but misguided journalism. The actual words of the scientist who did the research were:
"Sea level changes at Artà Cave can be caused by the melting and growing of ice sheets or by uplift or subsidence of the island itself," lead author of the new study Jacky Austermann said in a press release.

The Arta caves are on Mallorca, which as you know is an island in the Mediterranean. The background to this is, the African tectonic plate is pushing northwards against the European plate, and there are lines of folding which are basically east-west. The upfolds are the mountains of Spain (Pyrenees, Sierra Nevada etc) and the Atlas Mountains in Morocco. The downfold has filled with water and is the Mediterranean Sea. There's a bit of a ripple going east-west from Spain, and the top of it is sticking out above the water, making the Balearic Islands, including Mallorca.

Over a timescale of millions of years the land rises and falls, in areas where the tectonic plates are pushing against each other. That's how mountains form, and why there are earthquakes and volcanoes.

So the idea that Mallorca has risen by 20 to 30 metres over three million years is entirely unsurprising in this context.

So iyo sea levels were not higher 3million years ago ?

 

[StephDeLux]

I'm no scientist SB, How does that work. Condensation generally occurs in the atmosphere when warm air rises and cools forming cloud droplets returning to earth.

OK, I cannot find the source where I read the 100 times thing.

But there is this (among others): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

In the article there is this table:

Saying a car is green if it emits H20 instead of CO2 is a lie, pure and simple. That kills all the argument for hydrogen, by the way.

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[denisejoe]

That at least a ton sitting on top of the cab

 

[thebriars]

So iyo sea levels were not higher 3million years ago ?

You've obviously not understood the most basic fact about Global Warming, and that is the temperature change is unprecedented given the time scale. Over 3 million years, the planet has plenty of time to adapt to slowly changing conditions. Now the time scale is measured in decades rather than millions of years. That is the scary fact, and the planet cannot evolve to cope with those changes fast enough.

Just consider something else. No doubt at home your boiler is chuffing away keeping your house warm (or your motorhome if you are away). Where does all that heat go? Every single bit goes back into warming the environment, mostly the atmosphere. In the UK alone there are 25 million houses never mind the acres of factories, shops and other workplaces all effectively heating the atmosphere, and that's before we start with the greenhouse gases.

 

[Larrynwin]

You've obviously not understood the most basic fact about Global Warming, and that is the temperature change is unprecedented given the time scale. Over 3 million years, the planet has plenty of time to adapt to slowly changing conditions. Now the time scale is measured in decades rather than millions of years. That is the scary fact, and the planet cannot evolve to cope with those changes fast enough.

Just consider something else. No doubt at home your boiler is chuffing away keeping your house warm (or your motorhome if you are away). Where does all that heat go? Every single bit goes back into warming the environment, mostly the atmosphere. In the UK alone there are 25 million houses never mind the acres of factories, shops and other workplaces all effectively heating the atmosphere, and that's before we start with the greenhouse gases.

I was not trained to understand the basic facts of Global Warming which I believe to be a complex subject, I merely posted a link stating what sea levels were 3million years ago.

 

[autorouter]

Saying a car is green if it emits H20 instead of CO2 is a lie, pure and simple. That kills all the argument for hydrogen, by the way.

It is not a lie. The amount of water vapour in the atmosphere is huge, and comes from evaporation from the sea and from wet land surfaces. Two-thirds of the entire planet is covered by sea.

The water vapour concentration depends on the average temperature. So increasing CO2 causes a temperature rise, which causes more water vapour to evaporate from the sea. This in turn causes more water vapour, and is the start of a 'positive feedback' mechanism. The optimists say that other processes kick in to limit this positive feedback. I hope they are right. Otherwise we end up like Venus (average temperature 462 deg C).

Water vapour from hydrogen-powered vehicles would be miniscule in comparison to the huge amount of water vapour already in the air. In addition, water vapour stays in the air on average about nine days, not decades or centuries like CO2. The additional contribution of hydrogen vehicles would be minute compared to the same vehicles using fossil fuels.

 

[thebriars]

I was not trained to understand the basic facts of Global Warming which I believe to be a complex subject, I merely posted a link stating what sea levels were 3million years ago.

You don't need to be trained in anything to understand there is a huge difference between 200 years and 3 million years, and as such pointing out sea levels were different 3 million years ago is irrelevant to the discussion of Global Warming.

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[autorouter]

You've obviously not understood the most basic fact about Global Warming, and that is the temperature change is unprecedented given the time scale. Over 3 million years, the planet has plenty of time to adapt to slowly changing conditions. Now the time scale is measured in decades rather than millions of years. That is the scary fact, and the planet cannot evolve to cope with those changes fast enough.

The planet will be fine. It will adapt. So will humans. But from what I can see, all the coastal cities, many of which are capital, will be under tens of metres of water. If you're OK with that, then carry on as normal.

The sea level changes can not be deduced from a single coastal spot that may or may not have risen or sunk over 3 million years. But if you look at stable coastlines on the trailing edges of tectonic plates, you find that on average the sea level has indeed fallen by 30 metres over 3 million years. It has risen and fallen by hundreds of metres depending on the extent of polar icecaps and mountain glaciers.

With global climate warming, we are inducing changes over a century that usually take millions of years.

So carry on. After all, as they say, what have the future generations ever done for us?

 

[thebriars]

The planet will be fine. It will adapt. So will humans. But from what I can see, all the coastal cities, many of which are capital, will be under tens of metres of water. If you're OK with that, then carry on as normal.

The sea level changes can not be deduced from a single coastal spot that may or may not have risen or sunk over 3 million years. But if you look at stable coastlines on the trailing edges of tectonic plates, you find that on average the sea level has indeed fallen by 30 metres over 3 million years. It has risen and fallen by hundreds of metres depending on the extent of polar icecaps and mountain glaciers.

With global climate warming, we are inducing changes over a century that usually take millions of years.

So carry on. After all, as they say, what have the future generations ever done for us?

er... not sure of the point of this, this is exactly what I said above.

 

[PeteH]

If they ground all the aeroplanes, that would help ?

Then what would "Grumbling Greta" Do?

The planet has been, warmer, colder, and I am informed moved on it`s axis at least once, possibly twice. ALL without "Man`s Input"?.

 

[autorouter]

er... not sure of the point of this, this is exactly what I said above.

Sorry, I was basically agreeing with thebriars. It was a reply to Larrynwin's post which I omitted to quote first.

So iyo sea levels were not higher 3million years ago ?

I meant that the planet will do what planets do, and we humans just have to suck it up. The planet doesn't need us. Plenty of other lifeforms have briefly flourished and gone extinct.

 

[Robin McHood]

How long will it take to develop the kit to go in the vehicles and the infrastructure to receive and handle the Co2 containers being deposited at refuelling the diesel ........

I would imagine longer than a long term replacement for diesel!

Problem is that no one has yet come up with a power source that has the energy density of hydrocarbon fuels nor the ability to transfer large quantities of an energy dense material or energy itself quickly and safely. Hydrogen is a possible but has its own inherent problems.

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[Robin McHood]

I suppose the loaf-fairy brought it in a sleigh running on compressed unicorn farts

Is this a feasible alternative and what is the time scale for developing this engine? (asking for a friend)

 

[Onemanandhisdog]

I read something about glass battery technology the other day, dreamt up by the old boy who came up with lithium, now in his 90's. Seems the likes of Tesla are promising things in the next few years that aren't currently possible so they must have something up their sleeve.

 

[nicholsong]

I read something about glass battery technology the other day, dreamt up by the old boy who came up with lithium, now in his 90's. Seems the likes of Tesla are promising things in the next few years that aren't currently possible so they must have something up their sleeve.

I can see through that idea.

 

[Larrynwin]

Sorry, I was basically agreeing with thebriars. It was a reply to Larrynwin's post which I omitted to quote first.

I meant that the planet will do what planets do, and we humans just have to suck it up. The planet doesn't need us. Plenty of other lifeforms have briefly flourished and gone extinct.

I agree but I don’t think we help the situation.

 

[autorouter]

Problem is that no one has yet come up with a power source that has the energy density of hydrocarbon fuels nor the ability to transfer large quantities of an energy dense material or energy itself quickly and safely.

If we can generate electricity without fossil fuel, there is an existing technology that could reduce CO2 production by existing diesel and petrol engines to very much lower level. How much fuel do you use going through the Channel Tunnel? Imagine if the same train went all the way to Marseilles, or Malaga. OK, it's huge engineering infrastructure project, but the technology exists right now.

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[thebriars]

I read something about glass battery technology the other day, dreamt up by the old boy who came up with lithium, now in his 90's. Seems the likes of Tesla are promising things in the next few years that aren't currently possible so they must have something up their sleeve.

Still doesn't solve the problem of the generation and distribution of electricity needed to charge said batteries.