A bit of information for self-builders and the DVLA

[Two on Tour]

Whether the DVLA will take note of this will remain to be seen.

https://www.ombudsman.org.uk/news-and-blog/news/dvlas-poor-communication-causes-confusion-campervan-owners

 

[EML]

Ok, loads of you are going to hate this, but...

This is just dumb. The ombudsman has been sucked into the general confusion. The DVLA is clear on its website, if you look hard enough, that the V5C is pretty much irrelevant. It has nothing to do with campervan/moho speed limits. Nothing to do with "costlier MOTs" (my own garage just checks inside to see if there's a bed). "Not being allowed on some camping sites" - maybe, but who's going to check a V5C before allowing you onto their site? D'oh.

Getting a re-classification as a motor caravan is utterly pointless. The V5C body type basically just helps the police to eyeball your vehicle after looking up your licence plate.

Is it really the DVLA's fault that they don't spell this out on their webite? Speed limits are nothing to do with them; that's completely separate legislation.

 

[Lenny HB]

Ok, loads of you are going to hate this, but...

This is just dumb. The ombudsman has been sucked into the general confusion. The DVLA is clear on its website, if you look hard enough, that the V5C is pretty much irrelevant. It has nothing to do with campervan/moho speed limits. Nothing to do with "costlier MOTs" (my own garage just checks inside to see if there's a bed). "Not being allowed on some camping sites" - maybe, but who's going to check a V5C before allowing you onto their site? D'oh.

Getting a re-classification as a motor caravan is utterly pointless. The V5C body type basically just helps the police to eyeball your vehicle after looking up your licence plate.

Is it really the DVLA's fault that they don't spell this out on their webite? Speed limits are nothing to do with them; that's completely separate legislation.

I think you have missed the point, loads of people have converted vans correctly to the DVLA guidelines and they have still refused to register them in the correct category.

It is certainly not ulterly pointless to the people that have done it and it can affect insurance some companies refusing to insure "van with windows" as a camper which then reduces the insurance cover.

 

[EML]

It is certainly not ulterly pointless to the people that have done it and it can affect insurance some companies refusing to insure "van with windows" as a camper which then reduces the insurance cover.

That's an interesting point. I'd like to hear from someone who can actually cite an insurance company who charge according to the V5C body classification. I've only gone through 2 companies, and neither has shown any interest in this. Adrian Flux insured me all the way through a conversion from a commercial vehicle, and I spoke to them several times, and they specifically stated that they didn't care.

 

[Lenny HB]

That's an interesting point. I'd like to hear from someone who can actually cite an insurance company who charge according to the V5C body classification. I've only gone through 2 companies, and neither has shown any interest in this. Adrian Flux insured me all the way through a conversion from a commercial vehicle, and I spoke to them several times, and they specifically stated that they didn't care.

It's come up on the forum a few times.

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[Two on Tour]

We had a self build PVC which was not converted by us and we were told by several of the well known MoHo insurers that they would not quote on a self build.
We got insurance for it with Adanced Insurance.

 

[Oldrat]

Ok, loads of you are going to hate this, but...

This is just dumb. The ombudsman has been sucked into the general confusion. The DVLA is clear on its website, if you look hard enough, that the V5C is pretty much irrelevant. It has nothing to do with campervan/moho speed limits. Nothing to do with "costlier MOTs" (my own garage just checks inside to see if there's a bed). "Not being allowed on some camping sites" - maybe, but who's going to check a V5C before allowing you onto their site? D'oh.

Getting a re-classification as a motor caravan is utterly pointless. The V5C body type basically just helps the police to eyeball your vehicle after looking up your licence plate.

Is it really the DVLA's fault that they don't spell this out on their webite? Speed limits are nothing to do with them; that's completely separate legislation.

Sorry
You’ve got the wrong end of the stick #2


Automatic speed cameras issue speeding tickets ….automatically.

They refer to the DVLA database to determine that speed limit for a particular vehicle type.

So, the DVLA REFUSING to classifying vehicle types according to their OWN rules often causes findings of guilt (where trusting folks just plead guilty) or it leaves the driver to challenge the ticket which shouldn’t have been issued in the first place.

1. It’s wrong for the DVLA to refuse to not follow their own rules.
2. Prosecuting authorities shouldn’t depend upon a database which the owners (DVLA) say shouldn’t be used for speed classification.

Of course, this only relates to motor caravans with an unladen weight n/e 3.05 tonnes.

So yes, it is relevant to a lot of folks.

 

[Jim]

Getting a re-classification as a motor caravan is utterly pointless.

Cheaper insurance is always a good reason. Also if the van registered as a motorcaravan and is under 3050kg unladen; being able travel 60mph on A roads and 70mph on dual carriageways might be of use to some.

 

[EML]

This comes up a lot, and exactly the same arguments are trotted out every time, with no backing. The speed limit legislation is clear, and has been quoted (by me, at least) on this forum. It comes down to what the vehicle is being used as, not what the body type is. The DVLA has responded to FOI requests (including my own) where they clarify that the body type is not relevant; you can google all this.

Automatic speed cameras may or may not do a V5C lookup; also covered previously on this forum. If they do, and they fine based on body type, then they've got it wrong.

Insurance companies may or may not charge according to the V5C. The two I've used don't, and I don't recall ever seeing a properly cited case where one does.

Sorry Jim; not right. Specifically, the word "and" is wrong:

Also if the van registered as a motorcaravan and is under 3050kg unladen

if by "registered" you mean has a V5C body type of "motor caravan". What matters is usage, which isn't registered, but may have to be argued with the police, or whoever.

Sorry, bored now, not doing any more speed limits... this just comes up again and again, with no resolution.

 

[activecampers]

Cheaper insurance is always a good reason. Also if the van registered as a motorcaravan and is under 3050kg unladen; being able travel 60mph on A roads and 70mph on dual carriageways might be of use to some.

Wrong info, often spouted. V5 classification has nothing to do with speed limits - but so many people spout it is that it gets repeated as true.

See video below, yes just an "opinion" - but source links to law are in description - not from Karen on Facebook

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[activecampers]

This comes up a lot, and exactly the same arguments are trotted out every time, with no backing. The speed limit legislation is clear, and has been quoted (by me, at least) on this forum. It comes down to what the vehicle is being used as, not what the body type is. The DVLA has responded to FOI requests (including my own) where they clarify that the body type is not relevant; you can google all this.

Automatic speed cameras may or may not do a V5C lookup; also covered previously on this forum. If they do, and they fine based on body type, then they've got it wrong.

Insurance companies may or may not charge according to the V5C. The two I've used don't, and I don't recall ever seeing a properly cited case where one does.

Sorry Jim; not right. Specifically, the word "and" is wrong:

if by "registered" you mean has a V5C body type of "motor caravan". What matters is usage, which isn't registered, but may have to be argued with the police, or whoever.

Sorry, bored now, not doing any more speed limits... this just comes up again and again, with no resolution.

Yes, speed cameras, toll charges (and no doubt congestion/air zones) use ANPR and yes get vehicle type from DVLA.
An easy check is to use the dartford crossing payment, and enter vehicle reg, and it comes back with the vehicle class.

VWW comes back as C. MC comes back as B.

Problem is, MC is defined in law and has no relation to V5. So you can pre-pay dartford crossing for your VWW (but is actually a MC) and then get fined for driving a commercial vehicle.

AFAIK you can argue each and every case, but why should you?

So is there a legal reason to change V5 to MC? No. But in the real word, yes there is.
Less insurance companies care now, but the "value" of the van is more with MC (if you sell one, first question is usually "is it a MC on V5") as its seen as less hassle and also a "quality sign of" which of course it isn't. It also helps in valuation if vehicle is written off by 3rd party here or abroad.

I won't bore everyone, but I think I spent more time on this topic than most.
My self build was rejected (to VWW) 4 times. Complaint was rejected. Complaint to CEO was rejected. Each time, standard answers and no questions answered.
Asked my MP to ask them why they are rejecting when I believed I complied with the (badly written and ambiguous) guidelines (not rules) and the spirit of. She kindly did, just saying "Mr AC believes he complies, you say he doesn't, please explain". DVLA issued a new V5 with MC and then a letter apologising for NOT CHANGING IT CORRECTLY first time.
No reasons given to why they didn't, but I stopped the fighting then as I got what I wanted. (vehicle as unchanged during the entire process)

As an aside, they say "you can tick every box, but if we don't think it looks like a MC we won't make it one" and also "we can change to MC even if all boxes aren't ticked".

In other words, we can do what we like and we self police it. lol..

I collected pictures of vans over a 2 year period, almost identical vans passed and failed; some naff ones passed and great pro standards failed. I'm even aware of a company doing the same conversions on the same vans and even they have pot luck getting changes! No consistency with colour, graphics, window type etc.

Anyway, I lost many battles but won the war

 

[Oldrat]

For those doubting Thomas’s. (Not my own letter)

From the DVLA themselves.

Their database should not be relied upon to issue tickets .. but sadly, it still is , and wrongly so.

Seperately the ombudsman has raised the issue of the DVLA being very arbitrary in allocating classification yet no change.

 

[activecampers]

For those doubting Thomas’s. (Not my own letter)

From the DVLA themselves.

Their database should not be relied upon to issue tickets .. but it still is

View attachment 716584

Yep. Exactly as you say "
Their database should not be relied upon to issue tickets .. but it still is
"

Its because thats the ONLY database with information in, and its just not being used as designed by the ANPR systems. DVLA are correct in that letter (also confirmed by DoT) .

As its not DVLAs "problem" no one actually owns the problem and works for a solution!


Oh - the other issue is in UK law (as I linked above) a MC is defined in the RTA 1979 act. However, aboard, as far as I know, the "vehicle registration" aka V5 is the thing they use - they don't care about UK RTA 1979 if your V5 says otherwise. Though I'm not aware of anyone ever having to argue, successfully or otherwise, this case. I do know we've never been fined or charged "commercial van" tolls. But its that unknown that is "stressful" for the pedants lol