90 day rule, schengen rules, visas. Jees

[our poppy llll]

So I’m having a ball, the sky is blue, it’s cold at night but I don’t want to come home yet.
Schengen is making me leave.

What is wrong with the people who make these silly rules. All that’s needed is work permits and residence permits, if you have enough money to pay your way, you should be able to go anywhere in the free world. Obviously illegal immigration living of another countries generosity and benefits should not be allowed. And permits would control that.

If businesses think they can get away with it, they will pay low pay and no taxes, but by having very severe penalties, things will change. The loss of a business and assets would make employers think hard about breaking the law, especially if it is easy to apply for a work permit and residence permit.

Such permits would help local government and central government plan for the countries social needs, schools, hospitals, transport etc..

The loss of income to countries from those who normally come for months at a time must be enourmous.

Countries have to now consider withdrawing social aid for all immigrants, who do not have a work permit and residence permit. Which should be applied for before arrival.

Countries need to Introduce a visitors holiday maker, retiree permit that lasts a lifetime, come and go at will as long as you pay your own way. Of course this must exclude emergency health care, which can be covered by the participating health agreements.

Does it matter who comes to your country as long as they pay their own way,? I think not.

 

[Jim]

I can't think of a country that will let you stay as long as you want. Even in the Schengen, if your passport allows you to stay over 90 days and you do, then you need to put yourself on the authorities radar and start jumping through hoops.

 

[Westbarn1]

Get a French visa? https://sites.google.com/view/180-d...nfo/mixing-the-vls-t-visa-with-schengen-90180

 

[our poppy llll]

Get a French visa? https://sites.google.com/view/180-d...nfo/mixing-the-vls-t-visa-with-schengen-90180

That sounds complicated how does this visa work and what is it for? Who can apply and what are the rules?

 

[bigtwin]

That sounds complicated how does this visa work and what is it for? Who can apply and what are the rules?

If it’s worth having isn’t it worth putting the effort in?

It’s better than not having the option available.

Ian

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[PaulW2]

I can't think of a country that will let you stay as long as you want. Even in the Schengen, if your passport allows you to stay over 90 days and you do, then you need to put yourself on the authorities radar and start jumping through hoops.

Correct. And widely misunderstood.

Generally they must then be able to demonstrate that they're employed or self-employed, or have sufficient funds to support themselves, or are studying at an accredited institution. Otherwise they have to leave after 90 days.

In Schengen the risk of detection is however lower where people spend time in each others' countries than it is if one has to go through passport control.

 

[The Wino]

So I’m having a ball, the sky is blue, it’s cold at night but I don’t want to come home yet.
Schengen is making me leave.

What is wrong with the people who make these silly rules. All that’s needed is work permits and residence permits, if you have enough money to pay your way, you should be able to go anywhere in the free world. Obviously illegal immigration living of another countries generosity and benefits should not be allowed. And permits would control that.

If businesses think they can get away with it, they will pay low pay and no taxes, but by having very severe penalties, things will change. The loss of a business and assets would make employers think hard about breaking the law, especially if it is easy to apply for a work permit and residence permit.

Such permits would help local government and central government plan for the countries social needs, schools, hospitals, transport etc..

The loss of income to countries from those who normally come for months at a time must be enourmous.

Countries have to now consider withdrawing social aid for all immigrants, who do not have a work permit and residence permit. Which should be applied for before arrival.

Countries need to Introduce a visitors holiday maker, retiree permit that lasts a lifetime, come and go at will as long as you pay your own way. Of course this must exclude emergency health care, which can be covered by the participating health agreements.

Does it matter who comes to your country as long as they pay their own way,? I think not.

Does your post sum up as rules are for other people and shouldn't apply to me? If so could I guess your real name and win a prize!

 

[our poppy llll]

Does your post sum up as rules are for other people and shouldn't apply to me? If so could I guess your real name and win a prize!

Not one bit, I'm saying the rules should be relaxed for everyone. So everyone can go abroad whenever they want, didn’t you read the post correctly? Guessing my real name won’t win you a prize, but if you are that desperate to create animosity go ahead, publish my name, I’ve nothing to lose. I’ve nothing to hide, I really can’t see your need to be so antagonistic towards my post, I was only doing what this site says to do, giving an opinion and having fun.
Maybe I should not renew my subscription if that’s how you feel?

 

[PaulW2]

So I’m having a ball, the sky is blue, it’s cold at night but I don’t want to come home yet.
Schengen is making me leave.

What is wrong with the people who make these silly rules. All that’s needed is work permits and residence permits, if you have enough money to pay your way, you should be able to go anywhere in the free world. Obviously illegal immigration living of another countries generosity and benefits should not be allowed. And permits would control that.

There are such permits though. It differs between countries, but provided that you can show you have sufficient funds to support yourself you can often be given permission to stay. You obviously won't have as many options as a citizen of another EU country - it is after all a club with rules that benefit their own - but the 'sufficient funds' demonstration should go some way towards gaining permission.

 

[meanders]

The reality is that we were in the 'club' meaning you could stay as long as you like, but as a nation we voted to leave in a democratic referendum. If you leave any organisation, you can't still expect to reap the benefits. Whether or not you voted, or whichever way you voted if you did vote, is of no consequence. The country voted by a small majority to come out so Schengen rules now apply to all our citizens.

The impact does seem to have hit Funsters particularly, but then our very being is to travel. However, pre the vote several Funsters were very vocal at rallies etc that the right thing to do was to leave. Some of those same Funsters are those now vocalising their dissent at the new rules.

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[The Wino]

Not one bit, I'm saying the rules should be relaxed for everyone. So everyone can go abroad whenever they want, didn’t you read the post correctly? Guessing my real name won’t win you a prize, but if you are that desperate to create animosity go ahead, publish my name, I’ve nothing to lose. I’ve nothing to hide, I really can’t see your need to be so antagonistic towards my post, I was only doing what this site says to do, giving an opinion and having fun.
Maybe I should not renew my subscription if that’s how you feel?

The saying your real name was a joke I was thinking of a well known person who seemed to think rules applied to everyone else but him!
I think we decided rightly or wrongly that we wanted more control over who came here the success or otherwise of that policy is a different debate.
In terms of being allowed to stay as long as we want in any country so many hurdles. Are all countries going to agree. Would there be income limits. What happens on healthcare if someone becomes ill especially if you're going to make it for retirees only. What happens if your GP removes you from their list. What happens on repeat prescriptions. Travel insurance limits.
The bottom line I think is that the number of people really wanting to go for that long will make little difference to any countries economy so it's unlikely to happen.
I wasn't getting at you personally.

 

[eddie]

I keep reading desperate posts that “They will have to do something“

No they won’t most people could only dream of having a three month holiday so “I’ll it affects tourism, I’d guess minimally

A hand full of expats and a few retired or unemployed motorhomes in a country of some sixty - seventy million potential people who look forward to their two or three weeks a year in the Sun

Can’t see it up on the top table for discussion alongside actual issues

 

[jumartoo]

All that’s needed is work permits and residence permits

They exist, but they're not for " holiday makers" which is what most motorhomers are.

 

[CAB96]

France 6 months visa info :

Long Stay French Visa - Our application and interview/appointment.

Warning this is a long one. But hopefully will help those seeking to do the same as us. After returning from our recent Spanish winter trip, we decided to apply for a long stay French Visa. As with most things motorhome related, we searched mhf first and found two helpful threads. The...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[Tombola]

I can't think of a country that will let you stay as long as you want. Even in the Schengen, if your passport allows you to stay over 90 days and you do, then you need to put yourself on the authorities radar and start jumping through hoops.

A solicitor is Spain last week who's wife is a tax lawyer told me a fella told the Spanish he was working there and thus would pay taxes..given the right to stay.

5 years later he was hauled up and I'm sketchy on the specifics but had to prove why most of the time his phone was geolocated in Poland and lumped with fines .
Seems the Spanish taxman go to such lengths.

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[PaulW2]

They exist, but they're not for " holiday makers" which is what most motorhomers are.

There are limits.

More than three shakes is playing. More than three months isn't a holiday.

 

[our poppy llll]

Just been to Alicante Airport, worked my way through Gran Alicante, Santa Pola, La Marina, Torrevieja, and several of the beaches before getting to the Mar Menor, there are a lot of British MoHos wild camping. I’ve worked my way back on the country roads to San Miguel de la Salinas. Even more MoHos. So there are a lot here in this small area. Yeah the majority are retirees, they seem to be here for a while, I bet the Camp sites are full in Benidorm and all around the Costa Blanca.

These MoHos are obviously wintering here, but are limited to 90 days, it would not harm the country or their rules to allow them to stay 365 days if they wished, or come and go at will they are helping the economy, I was chatting to a guy in the Supermarket, a Brit Moho owner, here for Christmas and can’t stay for the New Year, like me he would have liked to stay longer, but the rules stop him. We have to leave 14th December.. my 90 rolling is up.

All I was saying is it’s obvious that the MoHo’ers here are retirees, living the dream, I bet their family come out for a holiday to visit them. At 66+ the majority are not looking to work! They are just holidaying. Give them a break, they are spending their hard earned in the country they are visiting…

How short sighted the rule makers are, if I go back 14th December and I have to wait until 12 March, I might have fancied a 2 week break in Tenerife, or a Long weekend in Paris or even a Christmas bash in Prague. But I can’t come and spend my money. Madness…and it’s nothing to do with Brexit, it’s the EU rules imposed, Brexit does not affect the EU on this point, the rules makers are being pedantic.

Strange affair.

 

[jumartoo]

Just been to Alicante Airport, worked my way through Gran Alicante, Santa Pola, La Marina, Torrevieja, and several of the beaches before getting to the Mar Menor, there are a lot of British MoHos wild camping. I’ve worked my way back on the country roads to San Miguel de la Salinas. Even more MoHos. So there are a lot here in this small area. Yeah the majority are retirees, they seem to be here for a while, I bet the Camp sites are full in Benidorm and all around the Costa Blanca.

These MoHos are obviously wintering here, but are limited to 90 days, it would not harm the country or their rules to allow them to stay 365 days if they wished, or come and go at will they are helping the economy, I was chatting to a guy in the Supermarket, a Brit Moho owner, here for Christmas and can’t stay for the New Year, like me he would have liked to stay longer, but the rules stop him. We have to leave 14th December.. my 90 rolling is up.

All I was saying is it’s obvious that the MoHo’ers here are retirees, living the dream, I bet their family come out for a holiday to visit them. At 66+ the majority are not looking to work! They are just holidaying. Give them a break, they are spending their hard earned in the country they are visiting…

How short sighted the rule makers are, if I go back 14th December and I have to wait until 12 March, I might have fancied a 2 week break in Tenerife, or a Long weekend in Paris or even a Christmas bash in Prague. But I can’t come and spend my money. Madness…and it’s nothing to do with Brexit, it’s the EU rules imposed, Brexit does not affect the EU on this point, the rules makers are being pedantic.

Strange affair.

I'm sorry but the Brexit result put you, and all other Brits, firmly into the third country rules.

The rules were there long before you had to abide by them. Take it on the chin and stop making it sound that you're being picked on.

Even as a Spanish permanent resident, with no say in the referendum, we have to abide by the same rules. We're lucky (in our opinion) to have residency in Spain, but our summer trips away now have to, officially, be kept to 90 days.

If you want to be a retiree in Spain, apply for a NLV.

 

[PaulW2]

Just been to Alicante Airport, worked my way through Gran Alicante, Santa Pola, La Marina, Torrevieja, and several of the beaches before getting to the Mar Menor, there are a lot of British MoHos wild camping. I’ve worked my way back on the country roads to San Miguel de la Salinas. Even more MoHos. So there are a lot here in this small area. Yeah the majority are retirees, they seem to be here for a while, I bet the Camp sites are full in Benidorm and all around the Costa Blanca.

These MoHos are obviously wintering here, but are limited to 90 days, it would not harm the country or their rules to allow them to stay 365 days if they wished, or come and go at will they are helping the economy, I was chatting to a guy in the Supermarket, a Brit Moho owner, here for Christmas and can’t stay for the New Year, like me he would have liked to stay longer, but the rules stop him. We have to leave 14th December.. my 90 rolling is up.

All I was saying is it’s obvious that the MoHo’ers here are retirees, living the dream, I bet their family come out for a holiday to visit them. At 66+ the majority are not looking to work! They are just holidaying. Give them a break, they are spending their hard earned in the country they are visiting…

How short sighted the rule makers are, if I go back 14th December and I have to wait until 12 March, I might have fancied a 2 week break in Tenerife, or a Long weekend in Paris or even a Christmas bash in Prague. But I can’t come and spend my money. Madness…and it’s nothing to do with Brexit, it’s the EU rules imposed, Brexit does not affect the EU on this point, the rules makers are being pedantic.

Strange affair.

This was all entirely a UK choice though. The EU rules pre-existed the set of changes that the UK made and it was therefore entirely a UK choice to be in its current position. It's all Brexit and nothing else.

 

[meanders]

Madness…and it’s nothing to do with Brexit, it’s the EU rules imposed, Brexit does not affect the EU on this point, the rules makers are being pedantic.

No it's not madness and it is 100% as a result of Brexit. I don't know how you can say otherwise. These were the same rules as visitors from outside the EU as were in place before Brexit. They haven't changed. We decided to leave.

The only "madness" may have been that some of these consequences were not spelt out in letters of one syllable to the masses who could not think things through for themselves. Personally I think the whole thing was a mistake, but I accept the will of the majority even if I voted to remain.

Several Funsters have thrown you a partial lifeline in the French visa, but you imply it's too complex or too much of a faff for you.

I can't see how anyone can help you.

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[jumartoo]

I think it's maybe another 585 586, or whatever, windup !!

 

[eddie]

Just been to Alicante Airport, worked my way through Gran Alicante, Santa Pola, La Marina, Torrevieja, and several of the beaches before getting to the Mar Menor, there are a lot of British MoHos wild camping. I’ve worked my way back on the country roads to San Miguel de la Salinas. Even more MoHos. So there are a lot here in this small area. Yeah the majority are retirees, they seem to be here for a while, I bet the Camp sites are full in Benidorm and all around the Costa Blanca.

These MoHos are obviously wintering here, but are limited to 90 days, it would not harm the country or their rules to allow them to stay 365 days if they wished, or come and go at will they are helping the economy, I was chatting to a guy in the Supermarket, a Brit Moho owner, here for Christmas and can’t stay for the New Year, like me he would have liked to stay longer, but the rules stop him. We have to leave 14th December.. my 90 rolling is up.

All I was saying is it’s obvious that the MoHo’ers here are retirees, living the dream, I bet their family come out for a holiday to visit them. At 66+ the majority are not looking to work! They are just holidaying. Give them a break, they are spending their hard earned in the country they are visiting…

How short sighted the rule makers are, if I go back 14th December and I have to wait until 12 March, I might have fancied a 2 week break in Tenerife, or a Long weekend in Paris or even a Christmas bash in Prague. But I can’t come and spend my money. Madness…and it’s nothing to do with Brexit, it’s the EU rules imposed, Brexit does not affect the EU on this point, the rules makers are being pedantic.

Strange affair.

Ah but now your spending you money at home instead, so the rule makers win!

 

[Nirvanauk]

JUst as a matter of interest, does anyone one know the penalty for overstaying your 90 days?

 

[VXman]

I can't think of a country that will let you stay as long as you want. Even in the Schengen, if your passport allows you to stay over 90 days and you do, then you need to put yourself on the authorities radar and start jumping through hoops.

I think in principle the OP has a point. Yes we all understand 'rules are rules' and 'we chose to leave' but I agree all these restrictions are a bit pointless. If you can prove that you have income, you are not going to expect anything from the state (maybe insist on private health insurance) then surely it's to the benefit of the country as you will be contributing to their economy. I suppose the difficulty, as always, will be the people who take advantage and come and work illegally etc.

 

[our poppy llll]

Ah but now your spending you money at home instead, so the rule makers win!

Do you mean that it benefits Britain if I don’t spend money in the EU, well no all I’ll do is try to go somewhere that is warm and is not in the EU. Simples, but worse many people I know are selling up in Spain and buying in other countries not in the Schengen. There is a shortage of housing in Europe so house prices have soared, my €146k house is now worth. €360k… I bought it when the Euro was €1.43 to the £1.00. Today I can buy a £1.00 for €1.20 a big loss for Spain.

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[bigtwin]

JUst as a matter of interest, does anyone one know the penalty for overstaying your 90 days?

If it’s a first time offence and it’s the French that collar you it’s about €198 fine.

Ian

 

[Bessy765]

There is a strong undertaking from so French MP’s to get the rules relaxed, it is being debated in December. But Macron is against it

 

[meanders]

If you complete the logical circle. Overstay your welcome in any country, and you become an illegal immigrant in that country. In your original post you said that should not be allowed. Or can you only be an illegal immigrant by your definition if you have a different colour skin, barely speak the host country language, and arrive in a rubber dinghy?

I believe Schengen is the same as the United States and Australia. Overstay your welcome without good reason and they stop you going back in for many years after.

 

[our poppy llll]

No it's not madness and it is 100% as a result of Brexit. I don't know how you can say otherwise. These were the same rules as visitors from outside the EU as were in place before Brexit. They haven't changed. We decided to leave.

The only "madness" may have been that some of these consequences were not spelt out in letters of one syllable to the masses who could not think things through for themselves. Personally I think the whole thing was a mistake, but I accept the will of the majority even if I voted to remain.

Several Funsters have thrown you a partial lifeline in the French visa, but you imply it's too complex or too much of a faff for you.

I can't see how anyone can help you.

I weren’t asking for help and I don’t want a French visa. I was just making a point that there’s no ‘real’ reason why ‘any’ country should stop holiday makers from visiting and spending their money. I was pointing out that it’s bad for any countries economy to limit people spending their cash there.

 

[meanders]

I weren’t asking for help and I don’t want a French visa. I was just making a point that there’s no ‘real’ reason why ‘any’ country should stop holiday makers from visiting and spending their money. I was pointing out that it’s bad for any countries economy to limit people spending their cash there.

But the first reply was from Jim, our illustrious leader, saying he is not aware of any country that lets you stay as long as you want! (Jim has motorhomed extensively for many years)

You might think it's a nonsense, but many countries are much more restrictive than those in the Schengen zone.

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