20mph Wales, only vote for it in the village

[Dolmen]

Just had a midweek break in South Wales and I have to say I did not find the 20mph speed limit a problem. I appreciate from other forum articles that this is not the view of others who have visited, however, in the Merthyr, Cardiff, Barry Island area everywhere that dropped to 20mph seemed entirely sensible, much like you get outside schools in the UK and villages in France. They know they will get some wrong and some roads will be adjusted up or down. There was only one occasion, on the way into Barry, when we thought this is crazy, however, much busier on the way back and seemed entirely appropriate. Came away more impressed than distressed

 

[Chrisvh]

In our area there few dissenting voices. The village is safer and traffic noise has reduced. Compliance is almost universal. A few dimwits have been defacing road signs but I understand they have been arrested and are being prosecuted. The 20mph limit was in the Labour manifesto in the 2021 Senedd elections and they were elected with an increased vote. Democracy in action I suppose.

 

[RedFrame]

I totally agree with it in principal for residential streets, but not on arterial roads where it actually becomes more dangerous due to impatient drivers overtaking, and at T-Junctions where pulling out on a car doing 20 mph is safe, but if they are ignoring the speed limit it is scary.

On the road in the image I regularly get overtaken due to impatience and IMV it certainly doesn't need to be 20mph.

Cheers
Red

 

[Wee Bold Davy]

Don't get me started on that one, there are so many roads where the 20mph is totally inappropriate. I'm just wondering what is going to happen in my nearest town Welshpool on Bank Holidays and at weekends in the summer. It's been clogged up for years when half of the West Midlands passes through the town on the A458 on their way to and from the coast. They've changed the one way system 3 times in 5 years in an effort the alleviate the problem. Now with the 20mph limit, there's one particular junction where traffic approaches from opposing directions and the road splits, no traffic lights, and if you're travelling west you can sit for 5 minutes if there's as few as 4 vehicles in front of you and a constant stream of car crawling towards you without any gaps which just didn't happen before the 20mph limit was introduced. The traffic flowed reasonably well. How it's going to cope with mile or more of queuing traffic, I've no idea? It's eventually going to affect tourism in a big way and the damage it does to local businesses during these times can only be imagined, anyone living nearby will take their business elsewhere.
The whole idea has been badly thought out, if thought out at all

 

[RedFrame]

Don't get me started on that one, there are so many roads where the 20mph is totally inappropriate. I'm just wondering what is going to happen in my nearest town Welshpool on Bank Holidays and at weekends in the summer. It's been clogged up for years when half of the West Midlands passes through the town on the A458 on their way to and from the coast. They've changed the one way system 3 times in 5 years in an effort the alleviate the problem. Now with the 20mph limit, there's one particular junction where traffic approaches from opposing directions and the road splits, no traffic lights, and if you're travelling west you can sit for 5 minutes if there's as few as 4 vehicles in front of you and a constant stream of car crawling towards you without any gaps which just didn't happen before the 20mph limit was introduced. The traffic flowed reasonably well. How it's going to cope with mile or more of queuing traffic, I've no idea? It's eventually going to affect tourism in a big way and the damage it does to local businesses during these times can only be imagined, anyone living nearby will take their business elsewhere.
The whole idea has been badly thought out, if thought out at all

Totally agree, I didn't mention the "Car Trains" on arterial roads because they're not so much a safety issue, but they can be a major hindrance to traffic flow.

Cheers
Red.

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[ChrisSue]

Totally agree, I didn't mention the "Car Trains" on arterial roads because they're not so much a safety issue, but they can be a major hindrance to traffic flow.

Cheers
Red.

And of course all those cars waiting will push out exhaust gases which would dissipate if the vehicles were moving. This makes it a perfect location for an air quality monitor which will show high levels of pollution and, thus, open the door for an LEZ.

So a double win in speeding fines and emission tax

 

[Tea Bag]

Hi.
Some one well known to me, in the Met police wrote in a Thesis ? Pre '56 " It is only the difference in the speeds of cars/traffic ,that keeps the traffic flowing in London. " I had said i had been going down " Park Lane " 05.00 hrs in the lorry " quickly...? ",en route to a delivery south of the river ( 60's ) and cars were going past me like a oner and he told me this. Makes you think....................
Add on the stopping distances you have to leave by law,or be done for tailgating.......... Best not buy a house on a side road any time soon . Tea Bag.
.

 

[Guigsy]

I totally agree with it in principal for residential streets, but not on arterial roads where it actually becomes more dangerous due to impatient drivers overtaking, and at T-Junctions where pulling out on a car doing 20 mph is safe, but if they are ignoring the speed limit it is scary.

On the road in the image I regularly get overtaken due to impatience and IMV it certainly doesn't need to be 20mph.

View attachment 864132

Cheers
Red

Arterial road? It's a street of semi detached houses. If people overtake you when you're driving the speed limit, so what? You didn't choose the speed limit, but you are obliged to follow it. You don't have to be sheep'd into driving faster.

 

[RedFrame]

Arterial road? It's a street of semi detached houses. If people overtake you when you're driving the speed limit, so what? You didn't choose the speed limit, but you are obliged to follow it. You don't have to be sheep'd into driving faster.

View attachment 864307

I definitely didn't say I felt I was forced (Sheeped?) to drive faster, and don't.

If you define that image as a street rather than a road then we will have to agree to disagree.

The road does indeed have semi detached houses on one side, however in terms of road safety ....

The road is very wide.
There are only houses on one side of the road.
The boundaries, and pavement, are set back from the kerb by approx 8 metres, the houses by more like 15 metres.
The road is straight as a die.
The road has a number of T-Junctions joining from the left (in the image) from residential streets.
The authorities are not enforcing the speed limit since changing it to 20mph (which they did regularly, circa 3x or more a month when it was 30mph).

This is just a short list, I really could go on.

If we are considering safety all the above, and more, should be considered.

So, as a Motorcyclist ( Car driver, Delivery driver and Motorhome driver)...

I am now put in danger when impatient drivers overtake, or undertake... (yes undertake )
I am now put in danger when impatient drivers do not leave adequate braking distance.
I am now put in danger if I pull out of one of the T Junctions, and a vehicle is traveling at 50% (30mph) or more above the speed limit.

Again, a short list..

The road was built wide, and arterial because it is the ONLY way to cross the railway line, in a vehicle, before hitting Chester's true residential streets. The next option, to join up with Circular Drive, is to carry on and turn right into Cliveden Road, a residential road (in England) that should be, and is, 20mph.

I hope this helps.


Cheers
Red.

 

[Chris51]

And of course all those cars waiting will push out exhaust gases which would dissipate if the vehicles were moving. This makes it a perfect location for an air quality monitor which will show high levels of pollution and, thus, open the door for an LEZ.

So a double win in speeding fines and emission tax

Just come back from there as son lives there ...not many signs saying where they are and as for polution...mostly 3rd gear using more fuel...taxi drivers moaning about fines and added cost of fuel.

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[Wee Bold Davy]

Don't get me started on that one, there are so many roads where the 20mph is totally inappropriate. I'm just wondering what is going to happen in my nearest town Welshpool on Bank Holidays and at weekends in the summer. It's been clogged up for years when half of the West Midlands passes through the town on the A458 on their way to and from the coast. They've changed the one way system 3 times in 5 years in an effort the alleviate the problem. Now with the 20mph limit, there's one particular junction where traffic approaches from opposing directions and the road splits, no traffic lights, and if you're travelling west you can sit for 5 minutes if there's as few as 4 vehicles in front of you and a constant stream of car crawling towards you without any gaps which just didn't happen before the 20mph limit was introduced. The traffic flowed reasonably well. How it's going to cope with mile or more of queuing traffic, I've no idea? It's eventually going to affect tourism in a big way and the damage it does to local businesses during these times can only be imagined, anyone living nearby will take their business elsewhere.
The whole idea has been badly thought out, if thought out at all

Well it happened exactly as I forecast above and what makes it worse the local council were surprised by it.
Our small town was gridlocked today and it took an hour to pass through it. Yesterday my next door neighbour went into town to buy some mint sauce for the Sunday lunch. It took her an hour and 45 minutes.
Looks like the town will need to be avoided at weekends from now on if there's a Bank Holiday or even just some good weather.

 

[PaddyM]

The only proper answer is to have a man in front of every motor vehicle with a red flag walking at 4 mph max ……… o hang on we tried that one before .
20 mph in towns ? a ridiculous “ law “ foisted upon us by idiots .

 

[Richard n Ann]

The only proper answer is to have a man in front of every motor vehicle with a red flag walking at 4 mph max ……… o hang on we tried that one before .
20 mph in towns ? a ridiculous “ law “ foisted upon us by idiots .

I don't use the car at all now if possible, there are so many zombies driving, I pass them like they are stationary on my motorcycle

 

[Guigsy]

As a former traffic engineer, I can reassure you that there's almost no difference in throughput at 20mph compared to 30mph. So your journey time might be a bit longer, but you'll not sit in any more traffic. The congestion is purely too many cars.

 

[maison]

Just had a midweek break in South Wales and I have to say I did not find the 20mph speed limit a problem. I appreciate from other forum articles that this is not the view of others who have visited, however, in the Merthyr, Cardiff, Barry Island area everywhere that dropped to 20mph seemed entirely sensible, much like you get outside schools in the UK and villages in France. They know they will get some wrong and some roads will be adjusted up or down. There was only one occasion, on the way into Barry, when we thought this is crazy, however, much busier on the way back and seemed entirely appropriate. Came away more impressed than distressed

When the speed limit was introduced local Councils were given the power to amend it where necessary.

Cardiff and the Vale of Glamorgan took a fairly sensible approach to this and maintained 30mph on main travel routes, hence your not finding it a problem and they are to be applauded, but there are plenty of other roads at 20mph which simply do not warrant it in the area.

However, move away from these particular routes or into other council areas and the adoption of 20mph has been overdone.
Seldom mentioned is the adoption of 40mph limits on some country roads where there is little traffic and good visibility such as the coast road near us.

I can’t comment re Merthyr as I seldom visit there.

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[Rapido666F]

A recent survey showed that most people approve of traffic reduction strategies in their own neighbourhood but weren’t so keen on those elsewhere.

Gordon

 

[maison]

The latest survey in Wales shows that 73% of the population are against the 20mph, as it currently stands and, contrary to the belief of the Sennedd at its introduction, attitudes have hardened against it rather than support for it.

Many, if not most, are in favour of the limit in appropriate places, near schools, hospitals etc, but the near blanket approach is not supported.

 

[Dolmen]

When the speed limit was introduced local Councils were given the power to amend it where necessary.

Cardiff and the Vale of Glamorgan took a fairly sensible approach to this and maintained 30mph on main travel routes, hence your not finding it a problem and they are to be applauded, but there are plenty of other roads at 20mph which simply do not warrant it in the area.

However, move away from these particular routes or into other council areas and the adoption of 20mph has been overdone.
Seldom mentioned is the adoption of 40mph limits on some country roads where there is little traffic and good visibility such as the coast road near us.

I can’t comment re Merthyr as I seldom visit there.

Understood, I was only there for a few days and for that short time it all looked perfectly sensible, however, those that live with it day in day out, like yourself, are in a far better position to comment than me, hope the local councils sort it out for the benefit of those local.

 

[Wee Bold Davy]

Understood, I was only there for a few days and for that short time it all looked perfectly sensible, however, those that live with it day in day out, like yourself, are in a far better position to comment than me, hope the local councils sort it out for the benefit of those local.

Try this. Set off on a local journey which you've done regularly for years and whenever you see every 30mph sign, slow down to 20mph and you'll soon realise how ridiculous the whole thing is.
They gave us 6 months to get used to the change, no one was prosecuted for breaking the limit unless caught by a fixed speeding camera, so the majority were slowing down slightly but not to 20mph. Some were slowing down too much, terrified of breaking the speed limit effectively slowing the traffic behind to 16mph or so, which is just over half the previous limit. Most struggle to stick to 20mph without constantly checking their speedo, taking their eyes off the road which can create even more dangerous situations.
Now that they are enforcing the new limit (3 days after pulling the plug on the petition, but that's another story!!) I live close to the border and the A458 which brings all the traffic from the West Midlands heading for the coast, we have hoards of drivers from over the border who haven't had time to get used to the new speed limit and I'm sure a fair number who don't even know anything about it! It's a recipe for lots of frustration and additional dangerous situations which wouldn't exist otherwise.