180hp engine and 9 speed auto warnings (12 Viewers)

[Tony50]

I always drive my Auto in Normal Mode , never in Economic Mode as I suspect it puts more strain on gearbox thus increasing oil temperature, I may be wrong of course.

 

[slowdriver]

I have a 2020 Ducato with the same engine, same gearbox and had a, perhaps, similar problem twice, both times descending the same hill in the Alps when I used the manual override on the ZF box to decrease speed. After a while the dashboard lit up like a Christmas tree and went into limp mode including a "drive straight to dealer" warning. I pulled over switched off for 10 minutes, restarted and got orange warning lights on the gearbox and engine, but not red warnings, drove to the local garage in limp mode where checked and then cleared down the faults. The main relevant fault was something about an issue between 4th and 3rd, he checked it over and pronounced all-good. The next year rather foolishly tried the same engine braking technique on the same hill, with the same result and a trip to the same garage. This suggests to me it's an ECU issue rather than a fundamental engine/gearbox issue since I did 9k faultless miles between both occurrences. If you get the same problem around St Gervais Les Bains (between Megeve and Chamonix) I recommend Garage GrandJacques on the Avenue de Miage on the road from St Gervais Le Bain to Les Contamines.

I should have added that I have never had a power issue with the van. The 180hp engine has taken us around the Alps for four years running at between 3.65 and 3.85 tons and apart from those two incidents it has been trouble-free. I am running a small test this year with running without the usual Fiat plastic trims (for steel wheels) to improve airflow around the brakes. Last year coming down on a 38C day from one of the high passes I got a tyrePal alarm for air temperature at 95C in the right front tyre. We will see if they run cooler next week. There is a thread elsewhere here on replacing the trims with plastic centre hub covers.

 

[cmj01]

Not sure if anyone can help, or if you’ve suffered the same problem. I have a 2021 Adria Sonic Supreme 810 on a Fiat Ducato 180hp with 9 sp auto gearbox bought from new. It is one of the last of the series 7 Ducatos. As a 5 tonne van I have always felt that 180hp is not quite enough in difficult circumstance e.g. roads with hills, as it is always sluggish to change down and will let the speed bleed off very quickly first. Taking control, either by shifting to manual, or kicking down works for a while but then a red engine or gearbox temperature light comes on along with an alternating amber check engine message and an amber ‘auto stop/start inoperative’ icon. Shutting down resets the red warning but not the amber messages. In the first year, the van was with a Fiat Professional dealer for close to 4 months until finally FIAT agreed to replace the transmission control unit (TCU). The saved error codes indicated too much use of both brake and accelerator – at the same time, something I suspect is a generic code for something else as I drive with one foot. No problem for two years until last week when in Sweden, and it happened again. We found a Fiat Professional dealer (with an English technician) who read and cleared the fault codes. They were the same as I recall from 2 years ago. He assured us it was not mechanical and it was safe to continue our travels. Since then, it has happened three more times and within 36 hours the ‘electronics’ have reset themselves and extinguished all the warnings. However, something is clearly not right both in that the engine struggles to keep speed on even a moderate incline, and after the fault because the engine revs are very high, 2,500rpm at 60mph in 8th gear. More normally at that speed and in that gear the revs are a tad over 1,500. I will also post on the Ducato forums but any information or guidance would be very much appreciated.

Not sure if anyone can help, or if you’ve suffered the same problem. I have a 2021 Adria Sonic Supreme 810 on a Fiat Ducato 180hp with 9 sp auto gearbox bought from new. It is one of the last of the series 7 Ducatos. As a 5 tonne van I have always felt that 180hp is not quite enough in difficult circumstance e.g. roads with hills, as it is always sluggish to change down and will let the speed bleed off very quickly first. Taking control, either by shifting to manual, or kicking down works for a while but then a red engine or gearbox temperature light comes on along with an alternating amber check engine message and an amber ‘auto stop/start inoperative’ icon. Shutting down resets the red warning but not the amber messages. In the first year, the van was with a Fiat Professional dealer for close to 4 months until finally FIAT agreed to replace the transmission control unit (TCU). The saved error codes indicated too much use of both brake and accelerator – at the same time, something I suspect is a generic code for something else as I drive with one foot. No problem for two years until last week when in Sweden, and it happened again. We found a Fiat Professional dealer (with an English technician) who read and cleared the fault codes. They were the same as I recall from 2 years ago. He assured us it was not mechanical and it was safe to continue our travels. Since then, it has happened three more times and within 36 hours the ‘electronics’ have reset themselves and extinguished all the warnings. However, something is clearly not right both in that the engine struggles to keep speed on even a moderate incline, and after the fault because the engine revs are very high, 2,500rpm at 60mph in 8th gear. More normally at that speed and in that gear the revs are a tad over 1,500. I will also post on the Ducato forums but any information or guidance would be very much appreciated.

I've had problem this trip with overheating transmission fluid on Sprinter based auto van. Hot day, full Aircon, big climbs on A75 in France and lots of engine breaking. Suddenly lost all power whilst driving along. Engine / oil temperature was fine. Seemed to go into limp mode and just made it to our destination. Annoying Sprinters don't have warning lights for this but it was pretty scary. Wonder if that could be your problem too?

 

[Simon H.]

We have a similar set up and no issues up hills. The Alps are 30mins from our house so we pass over them regularly and so far the van has pulled us up really well and were‘ often running at 5.5t when full.

Apologies for off topic but what tyres do you have on a 5ton vehicle?

 

[Steve-N]

Thank you , very helpful. One of the FP dealers who looked at in the early stages suggested to me that the ZF box doesn't have its own oil, instead taking it from the engine. I am not a technician so I have no idea if he was telling me porky pies or not.

Completely different type of oil !!

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[simonwelham]

So everyone, thanks for your messages, which were incredibly helpful. Exactly 2 months on from the breakdown this is what has happened. We flew home and the motorhome was transported on a low loader, arriving with Adams Morey three weeks ago. As soon as they had a ramp and had done a road test they confirmed code P1DB7 and the need for a whole new transmission. Thank you for recommending them by the way, they have been fantastic. Transmission arrived in 6 days, not 6 weeks as stated, and is due to be fitted this week. I had raised a case with Fiat customer care, remember it happened before - same code - different outcome, and they have agreed as a goodwill gesture to settle 100% of the parts and 75% of the labour. In exchange for the 25% labour I am to pay they will provide a 2 year parts and labour warranty on the transmission. I have accepted this offer. My question to you all, though, is a straw poll. The repair and warranty will remove the financial worry of a further failure, but not the emotional one. I simply do not know If I can trust it again on a long (5k miles - 6 to 8 weeks) journey. Would you, or would you cut your losses, sell it and buy a Mercedes based motorhome? I would very much welcome all views, please.

 

[Steve and Denise]

So everyone, thanks for your messages, which were incredibly helpful. Exactly 2 months on from the breakdown this is what has happened. We flew home and the motorhome was transported on a low loader, arriving with Adams Morey three weeks ago. As soon as they had a ramp and had done a road test they confirmed code P1DB7 and the need for a whole new transmission. Thank you for recommending them by the way, they have been fantastic. Transmission arrived in 6 days, not 6 weeks as stated, and is due to be fitted this week. I had raised a case with Fiat customer care, remember it happened before - same code - different outcome, and they have agreed as a goodwill gesture to settle 100% of the parts and 75% of the labour. In exchange for the 25% labour I am to pay they will provide a 2 year parts and labour warranty on the transmission. I have accepted this offer. My question to you all, though, is a straw poll. The repair and warranty will remove the financial worry of a further failure, but not the emotional one. I simply do not know If I can trust it again on a long (5k miles - 6 to 8 weeks) journey. Would you, or would you cut your losses, sell it and buy a Mercedes based motorhome? I would very much welcome all views, please.

The new Mercedes are not without problems according to a friend of mine who works for a company who run quite a few newish 2.0ltr vans.

 

[dunnah01]

So everyone, thanks for your messages, which were incredibly helpful. Exactly 2 months on from the breakdown this is what has happened. We flew home and the motorhome was transported on a low loader, arriving with Adams Morey three weeks ago. As soon as they had a ramp and had done a road test they confirmed code P1DB7 and the need for a whole new transmission. Thank you for recommending them by the way, they have been fantastic. Transmission arrived in 6 days, not 6 weeks as stated, and is due to be fitted this week. I had raised a case with Fiat customer care, remember it happened before - same code - different outcome, and they have agreed as a goodwill gesture to settle 100% of the parts and 75% of the labour. In exchange for the 25% labour I am to pay they will provide a 2 year parts and labour warranty on the transmission. I have accepted this offer. My question to you all, though, is a straw poll. The repair and warranty will remove the financial worry of a further failure, but not the emotional one. I simply do not know If I can trust it again on a long (5k miles - 6 to 8 weeks) journey. Would you, or would you cut your losses, sell it and buy a Mercedes based motorhome? I would very much welcome all views, please.

Adams Morey should be able to tell you why the gearbox has failed and why a new one won't do it again.

 

[simonwelham]

Adams Morey should be able to tell you why the gearbox has failed and why a new one won't do it again.

Thanks, I will certainly ask them.

 

[Bleau’s]

We have the same engine gearbox combination and did 5000 mile Norway, Sweden trip in May with no problems with the gearbox . Glad you are sorted by the way who is your breakdown recovery with.

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[simonwelham]

We have the same engine gearbox combination and did 5000 mile Norway, Sweden trip in May with no problems with the gearbox . Glad you are sorted by the way who is your breakdown recovery with.

RAC unfortunately. Not impressed. You?

 

[gus-lopez]

I simply do not know If I can trust it again on a long (5k miles - 6 to 8 weeks) journey. Would you, or would you cut your losses, sell it and buy a Mercedes based motorhome? I would very much welcome all views, please.

With a 2 year gtee what Have you got to lose= Run it around, if problems reoccur Fiat know the vehicle ,what has been done & would warranty it anywhere in europe I would have thought? If after twelve months you are still unsure then offload it ,still with gtee.

 

[G7UXG]

It appears to be the same gearbox in the Sprinter 9 speed. I got my head under the bonnet on mine, which is 2022 Mercedes Carthago tag axle at 5.5 tonnes and found the ZF badge on the gearbox, appears the same as the Fiats. I’ve also had a Fiat 5.5 tonne with a 9 speed ZF and no problems with either so far.

I guess you’ve been unlucky. If you like the van I’d keep it and give the new ‘box a fair chance.

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

So everyone, thanks for your messages, which were incredibly helpful. Exactly 2 months on from the breakdown this is what has happened. We flew home and the motorhome was transported on a low loader, arriving with Adams Morey three weeks ago. As soon as they had a ramp and had done a road test they confirmed code P1DB7 and the need for a whole new transmission. Thank you for recommending them by the way, they have been fantastic. Transmission arrived in 6 days, not 6 weeks as stated, and is due to be fitted this week. I had raised a case with Fiat customer care, remember it happened before - same code - different outcome, and they have agreed as a goodwill gesture to settle 100% of the parts and 75% of the labour. In exchange for the 25% labour I am to pay they will provide a 2 year parts and labour warranty on the transmission. I have accepted this offer. My question to you all, though, is a straw poll. The repair and warranty will remove the financial worry of a further failure, but not the emotional one. I simply do not know If I can trust it again on a long (5k miles - 6 to 8 weeks) journey. Would you, or would you cut your losses, sell it and buy a Mercedes based motorhome? I would very much welcome all views, please.

I think that you have been unlucky with the original gearbox as they are supplied to many high end brands like Landrover, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar ect in massive quantities.
ZF failures like your experience are not common so you should have some confidence all backed up with your 2 year warranty to be sure that you are covered in the very unlikely event of a repeat failure.

 

[BusyBuilder]

It always amazes me, that after how many decades of building engines and gearboxes, we still have problems. Same with motorbikes.

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[CazPaul]

No wonder I’ve always preferred a manual box

 

[Steve and Denise]

No wonder I’ve always preferred a manual box

But your van is possibly out of warranty Paul

 

[Bleau’s]

We are with the RAC had to call them out in Flam and they were first class think it depends on who comes out to you.

 

[CazPaul]

But your van is possibly out of warranty Paul

Excuse me our van is only 20 weeks old.






Sorry I mean only 20 years.

 

[Guigsy]

It always amazes me, that after how many decades of building engines and gearboxes, we still have problems. Same with motorbikes.

In the past 20 years, we've added about 50% more power, roughly double the torque and service intervals are about 3 times longer. To maintain about the same failure rate. Not tea bag.

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[Peppadog]

So everyone, thanks for your messages, which were incredibly helpful. Exactly 2 months on from the breakdown this is what has happened. We flew home and the motorhome was transported on a low loader, arriving with Adams Morey three weeks ago. As soon as they had a ramp and had done a road test they confirmed code P1DB7 and the need for a whole new transmission. Thank you for recommending them by the way, they have been fantastic. Transmission arrived in 6 days, not 6 weeks as stated, and is due to be fitted this week. I had raised a case with Fiat customer care, remember it happened before - same code - different outcome, and they have agreed as a goodwill gesture to settle 100% of the parts and 75% of the labour. In exchange for the 25% labour I am to pay they will provide a 2 year parts and labour warranty on the transmission. I have accepted this offer. My question to you all, though, is a straw poll. The repair and warranty will remove the financial worry of a further failure, but not the emotional one. I simply do not know If I can trust it again on a long (5k miles - 6 to 8 weeks) journey. Would you, or would you cut your losses, sell it and buy a Mercedes based motorhome? I would very much welcome all views, please.

Very pleased to read your outcome. As said, you will have a two year warranty. Give the ‘van a chance.
ZF boxes are renowned. I’ve been running the 8 speed version of that box in my LR discovery for nearly eleven years without issue.
Good luck with it going forward.

 

[CazPaul]

Renowned for what

He’s had 2 major breakdowns in a couple of years, I can see why the trust in the vehicle has gone. If he had been paying himself all of the cost it would be a fortune.

Maybe they are reliable but there’s always a small number of exceptions. I would flog it now personally as it’s just had another major repair.

 

[Otter Spotter]

Just read this thread, as a slight aside, have you had your van weighed in road trim ? If you carry all your ‘toys’ with you, you could be overweight for the engine and gearbox.

 

[funflair]

Just read this thread, as a slight aside, have you had your van weighed in road trim ? If you carry all your ‘toys’ with you, you could be overweight for the engine and gearbox.

I doubt it really as on top of its MTPLM it will have a towing weight allowance taking it to a GTW (Gross Train Weight) I doubt any number of toys in the garage would take it to that figure.