“BUY GERMAN” they said !

[Scotsblood]

Having seen very obvious issues at supposedly new vans at the Norfolk show I think the dealers concerned have a common problem, a lack of pride in the product they are attempting to sell!
Its the lack of attention to details that gets me.
Cupboard doors not screwed tight, non working lights, a very obviously broken shower screen, a light switch hanging on its cable, a broken locker door lock.
If I was trying to sell a £60k plus product I would certainly try and present it in the best light, Oh I did didn't I, I sold Jaguars for a few months! We did everything possible to ensure our shop window, the new cars themselves, were as perfect as we could make them.
The lack of pride leads to a lack of product quality, its manifestly visible in the problems that leave the factory and in reinforced by the dealer network.
It's just plain sloppy and dealers need to pick that up at PDI and sort if they want to generate and more importantly keep a good reputation.
Eddie is absolutely right we need to buy on reviews and reputation not just price, its too big an outlay to penny pinch and then suffer.

 

[Cliffdale]

The problem is one persons good review is another persons nightmare. In some cases!

 

[Jamwitt]

Looks like Lenny keeping his head down

 

[gus-lopez]

I know it must hurt when things go wrong , I get rattled if something I spend a fiver on goes tits up but this maybe puts a perspective on things

Couple find '700 faults' in new Persimmon house

A couple say they've been left "at breaking point" after spending their life savings on a new home, only to find a staggering "700 faults" after moving in. Nicola Bentley, 46, and husband Phil, 48, paid £280,000 for their new four-bedroom dream property in Kippax, near Leeds in West Yorkshire.

inews.co.uk

I had 3 x 4" ring folders of correspondence with problems/faults on our last place we bought off plan. I was fortunate though in that I would be inspecting it at least 4 times a week while it was being built.

"We let customers inspect their property prior to exchange if it is safe to do so. Mr and Mrs Bentley’s property was still under construction at this stage, therefore an inspection was not possible."
If he had already paid for it he should have just walked on.He owned it .same as me I just drove on to the site , overalls & bump hat & wandered around .
Even multiple complaints whilst be ing built didn't stop them taking the 12 months after we moved in to finish it to my satisfaction . + it is still ,to my knowledge , the only house on the site with complete paperwork.
In all with stuff I was proposing to change, install after taking possession ,which they eventually ended up supplying & installing foc, paying for my family holidays & various other stuff we probably ended up getting 15% of the price paid back of them.
Most new houses these days afe utter shite. Unless you harass & annoy those building them from thesite manager Up to the area MD & dig out the main companies MD & personal assistant , & make their lives a misery you'll end up with a pile of tat.

 

[The Wino]

The law has changed on this regarding private sales.

If you knowingly sell a vehicle with faults you are deemed to be in the wrong legally now.

Even more reasons not to pay the premium for a dealer unless they have a very good reputation and are long standing not fly by nights

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[Podney]

Well,my input at #4 seems to have done the trick! And I didn’t even need a fishing rod!
Let me explain my thoughts:
Firstly I think this forum is excellent, Jim has done a good job and I hope he is now reaping the rewards that are due to him for the hard work,commitment and risks involved.
I said MHF “could do more”. I didn’t say “should do more”. Maybe a separate section on the forum just for complainers about their new motorhomes? It would make it easier to follow and collate the information gathered,which could then be used to put pressure on manufacturers.

One thing is for sure........ TO DO NOTHING IS MERELY TO PERPETUATE THE CURRENT SITUATION.
Sorry to shout! But the current situation,where people are being sold INFERIOR product on a regular basis,is unacceptable........isn’t it?

Build quality seems to have been lost,and a lot of dealers,and manufacturers don’t seem to care..........not a good situation.

In my opinion,this situation will only be solved if there is an industry-wide commitment to improve things and set minimum standards,so it needs users,suppliers and manufacturers to WORK TOGETHER. If MHF can be made big enough,influential enough,and respected enough to bring the various parties together that would surely help?

At the moment,it’s all about caveat emptor,buyer beware. I researched for two years before buying my first van,most of which was done via MHF,and I am very happy with my 13 year old van. I spent a tiny % of my net worth on it,and if it fell apart tomorrow it wouldn’t affect my standard of living. I’m very fortunate. But if I had spent a big chunk of my savings on a van that turned out to be rubbish, I would be mortified...................and I would hope that there would be good advice to be available from a qualified and independent source to assist me. At the moment,folk come on here with their tales of woe,and get all sorts of differing advice from well- meaning members who may not have any legal knowledge or experience of motorhome legal redress...........................Wouldn’t it be good if we had a qualified,experienced and efficient solicitor,who members could go to if they have these problems. Someone who knows a bit about motorhomes and is prepared to specialise in this area....or one who already does so.

And so,you will see that all Im trying to do is find that catalyst that will help improve the motorhome industry for the benefit of us all. Whether that catalyst is MHF is not my decision,but I’d like to think we can have a positive effect as the status quo is getting us nowhere.

Sorry it’s a bit long winded,thanks for reading.

 

[BobtheBass]

Maybe there could be a new forum, "legal matters" where people could discuss their problems and hopefully attract assistance from my learned friends?

 

[MichaelT]

Having seen very obvious issues at supposedly new vans at the Norfolk show I think the dealers concerned have a common problem, a lack of pride in the product they are attempting to sell!
Its the lack of attention to details that gets me.
Cupboard doors not screwed tight, non working lights, a very obviously broken shower screen, a light switch hanging on its cable, a broken locker door lock.
If I was trying to sell a £60k plus product I would certainly try and present it in the best light, Oh I did didn't I, I sold Jaguars for a few months! We did everything possible to ensure our shop window, the new cars themselves, were as perfect as we could make them.
The lack of pride leads to a lack of product quality, its manifestly visible in the problems that leave the factory and in reinforced by the dealer network.
It's just plain sloppy and dealers need to pick that up at PDI and sort if they want to generate and more importantly keep a good reputation.
Eddie is absolutely right we need to buy on reviews and reputation not just price, its too big an outlay to penny pinch and then suffer.

Problem with shows is lots of people pulling things about "testing", trying to steal the know cos theirs is broken etc. so what you actually see at the show is maybe not indicative of the normal finished product.

 

[Barclaybasher]

Problem with shows is lots of people pulling things about "testing", trying to steal the know cos theirs is broken etc. so what you actually see at the show is maybe not indicative of the normal finished product.

I wonder how many vans leave the shows in the condition they arrived in - not many...

Maybe there should be a warning in new vans - "If you haven't bought a motorhome before don't buy a brand new one"..........won't happen of course

 

[romany]

Its all very well saying let solicitors take care of it but having taken legal action against two dealers one a caravan and one a motor home the one clear point from both of them was we don't care you can't afford to take us to court and you will give up.

Funny how quickly they both refunded when they discovered I didn't have to pay my solicitors they were part of my unions legal cover so I was lucky

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[pelican]

Having seen very obvious issues at supposedly new vans at the Norfolk show I think the dealers concerned have a common problem, a lack of pride in the product they are attempting to sell!
Its the lack of attention to details that gets me.
Cupboard doors not screwed tight, non working lights, a very obviously broken shower screen, a light switch hanging on its cable, a broken locker door lock.
If I was trying to sell a £60k plus product I would certainly try and present it in the best light, Oh I did didn't I, I sold Jaguars for a few months! We did everything possible to ensure our shop window, the new cars themselves, were as perfect as we could make them.
The lack of pride leads to a lack of product quality, its manifestly visible in the problems that leave the factory and in reinforced by the dealer network.
It's just plain sloppy and dealers need to pick that up at PDI and sort if they want to generate and more importantly keep a good reputation.
Eddie is absolutely right we need to buy on reviews and reputation not just price, its too big an outlay to penny pinch and then suffer.

Very well said absolutely true.

 

[Cliffdale]

It's a gamble buying a motorhome. We bought new as we felt protected albeit, reading the small print, not so good now but better than 2nd hand. 10 year warranty for water ingress is not exactly 10 years! It turns out to be a declining scale, not that the sale people tell you this!

My point being, its a gamble and if you cant afford to loose it, don't buy it! I'm not impressed with the people that put their life savings in a van and say they loose everything.

It shouldn't happen but you read about it a lot.

 

[Cliffdale]

Its all very well saying let solicitors take care of it but having taken legal action against two dealers one a caravan and one a motor home the one clear point from both of them was we don't care you can't afford to take us to court and you will give up.

Funny how quickly they both refunded when they discovered I didn't have to pay my solicitors they were part of my unions legal cover so I was lucky

I always tick the legal assistance when taking up house insurance. Just in case!

 

[Barclaybasher]

Its all very well saying let solicitors take care of it but having taken legal action against two dealers one a caravan and one a motor home the one clear point from both of them was we don't care you can't afford to take us to court and you will give up.

Funny how quickly they both refunded when they discovered I didn't have to pay my solicitors they were part of my unions legal cover so I was lucky

You were lucky I had a customer who thought I was at fault (not) and instructed his home insurance solicitors - a phone call from me to 'put them right' stopped that dead... if you start legal action make sure you have a case!

 

[pelican]

Problem with shows is lots of people pulling things about "testing", trying to steal the know cos theirs is broken etc. so what you actually see at the show is maybe not indicative of the normal finished product.

Same with boatshows but manufacturers /dealers had the pride to fix there and then. After all its a well known problem

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[Silver-Fox]

I always tick the legal assistance when taking up house insurance. Just in case!

Same as that.
A small price to pay I think.

 

[Barclaybasher]

Same as that.
A small price to pay I think.

I literally took out home insurance today and left out the 'legal cover' after reading its limitations - read the T&Cs.........

 

[Cliffdale]

I literally took out home insurance today and left out the 'legal cover' after reading its limitations - read the T&Cs.........

Was it Barclays home insurance by any chance?

 

[Barclaybasher]

Was it Barclays home insurance by any chance?

It was Halifax actually

......Barclays ?........please wash your mouth out

 

[Revolvor]

Friend of mine has a dinghy moored alongside a huge number of expensive yachts. He tells me hardly any ever leave the marina.

There is a Shetland moored next to my boat on the Thames. It's been there for over 35 years, but has not moved in the 9 years I have been moored there. That's £1,000 a year for mooring fees, + insurance & annual registration. The outboard was stolen about 5 years ago, and it was immediately replaced with a brand new Mercury that has never been run.

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[Barclaybasher]

There is a Shetland moored next to my boat on the Thames. It's been there for over 35 years, but has not moved in the 9 years I have been moored there. That's £1,000 a year for mooring fees, + insurance & annual registration. The outboard was stolen about 5 years ago, and it was immediately replaced with a brand new Mercury that has never been run.

The last boat I had stood on my drive for 10 years - 26' sloop worth maybe £5-7k I gave away

As they say 'A boat is a hole in the water in which you pour money'

 

[cornish boy]

Maybe there should be a warning in new vans - "If you haven't bought a motorhome before don't buy a brand new one"..........won't happen of course

We bought our 8.5m motorhome new, high ticket price, paid for out of savings, never owned one before, three years later and wouldn't change it for anything else.

Why you think we should have been told not to buy brand new?

 

[Barclaybasher]

We bought our 8.5m motorhome new, high ticket price, paid for out of savings, never owned one before, three years later and wouldn't change it for anything else.
Why you think we should have been told not to buy brand new?

Posts on here often say it takes 2 or 3 vans before you find the one with the layout, payload etc that best suits you. I was lucky, like you, the first van I bought was spot on for the time, the difference - price paid.

The key to getting the right van first time is research or luck.

If it's luck then the more spent the bigger the gamble - and the vans I have bought were better built and haven't lost a penny in depreciation.

 

[Southdowners]

Maybe a separate section on the forum just for complainers about their new motorhomes? It would make it easier to follow and collate the information gathered,which could then be used to put pressure on manufacturers.

If MHF can be made big enough,influential enough,and respected enough to bring the various parties together that would surely help?

At the moment,folk come on here with their tales of woe,and get all sorts of differing advice from well- meaning members who may not have any legal knowledge or experience of motorhome legal redress...........................Wouldn’t it be good if we had a qualified,experienced and efficient solicitor,who members could go to if they have these problems. Someone who knows a bit about motorhomes and is prepared to specialise in this area....or one who already does so.

There is a section on the forum where folk can add a review on their experience at dealerships. There will always be problems with motorhomes as they are so complex - it's how the dealership deals with those problems which makes the difference.

MHF is a forum. It's never going to be influential and respected in the way you suggest. It's made up of individual members so who would 'bring the various parties together'?

As for MHF having a solicitor... again... MHF is a forum with each member paying a small subscription so who would pay to have such a person?

There's lots of consumer advice online showing the process to follow should things go wrong. It's up to the individual to sort out their problems and, if necessary, get legal advice.

 

[BobtheBass]

The last sea fishing boat I owned went out to sea once in 1998, 7 trips arranged were cancelled because of bad weather on the day that wasn't forecast, I caught one flounder and working out the annual costs later that one flounder cost me £5,000! I sold the boat and haven't missed the hassle and cost of boat ownership since.

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[busby]

I think when I buy privately I expect a cheaper price to make up for the lack of any warranty or comeback with a dealer I would expect problems to be sorted out. If the dealer was selling it clearly stated "sold as seen" that would be fairer if they are going to walk as soon as theres a problem.

Dealer is still responsible for faults even if advertised as Sold as Seen i think..Not a legal get out for business.BUSBY.

 

[Lenny HB]

Looks like Lenny keeping his head down

Nope, just been busy fitting new windows in the house.

 

[Lenny HB]

Basildog you certainly appear to have a bum Friday afternoon one, not helped the dealer is not doing their job.
I think your best course of action would be to get it booked into the Badwaldsee Service Centre at least then you know it will get sorted properly.

We have had 3 Hymers they have all had some faults but never had any problems getting them sorted by the dealer. Our first one had corrosion on the habitation door (not helped by living 200 yds from the sea) even though the van was out of warranty our dealer spoke to Hymer and arranged for a new door.

I don't complain too much as problems in our case always get sorted and I take the view it's just a mid range van what do you expect.
Probably wouldn't be so complacent if I'd paid UK prices but I don't all my Hymers I've bought in Belgium at substantial price savings.

 

[tonyidle]

There will always be problems with motorhomes as they are so complex

.... badly assembled. Workmanship (that, visually important or not, is an indication of the skills/attitude of the person doing the work) isn't evident on any motorhome I've seen. Tasks that are as cheap and easy to perform neatly and correctly are more often the opposite. Simple example: wiring and pipework clips equally spaced, in a straight line, and with the fixings all on the same side. I could come up with a long and boring list. Complexity is a myth started and perpetuated by the Trade.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Well,my input at #4 seems to have done the trick! And I didn’t even need a fishing rod!
Let me explain my thoughts:
Firstly I think this forum is excellent, Jim has done a good job and I hope he is now reaping the rewards that are due to him for the hard work,commitment and risks involved.
I said MHF “could do more”. I didn’t say “should do more”. Maybe a separate section on the forum just for complainers about their new motorhomes? It would make it easier to follow and collate the information gathered,which could then be used to put pressure on manufacturers.

One thing is for sure........ TO DO NOTHING IS MERELY TO PERPETUATE THE CURRENT SITUATION.
Sorry to shout! But the current situation,where people are being sold INFERIOR product on a regular basis,is unacceptable........isn’t it?

Build quality seems to have been lost,and a lot of dealers,and manufacturers don’t seem to care..........not a good situation.

In my opinion,this situation will only be solved if there is an industry-wide commitment to improve things and set minimum standards,so it needs users,suppliers and manufacturers to WORK TOGETHER. If MHF can be made big enough,influential enough,and respected enough to bring the various parties together that would surely help?

At the moment,it’s all about caveat emptor,buyer beware. I researched for two years before buying my first van,most of which was done via MHF,and I am very happy with my 13 year old van. I spent a tiny % of my net worth on it,and if it fell apart tomorrow it wouldn’t affect my standard of living. I’m very fortunate. But if I had spent a big chunk of my savings on a van that turned out to be rubbish, I would be mortified...................and I would hope that there would be good advice to be available from a qualified and independent source to assist me. At the moment,folk come on here with their tales of woe,and get all sorts of differing advice from well- meaning members who may not have any legal knowledge or experience of motorhome legal redress...........................Wouldn’t it be good if we had a qualified,experienced and efficient solicitor,who members could go to if they have these problems. Someone who knows a bit about motorhomes and is prepared to specialise in this area....or one who already does so.

And so,you will see that all Im trying to do is find that catalyst that will help improve the motorhome industry for the benefit of us all. Whether that catalyst is MHF is not my decision,but I’d like to think we can have a positive effect as the status quo is getting us nowhere.

Sorry it’s a bit long winded,thanks for reading.

I doubt if any practising solicitor would specialise in the field of motorhome (and caravan) defect claims. By its nature the workflow will be too seasonal. Dispute resolution for private clients is hard work, and not very profitable. If you wanted to make money out of this kind of dispute work you would prefer to have the dealers and manufacturers as your clients.

In order to pursue a complicated defects claim you would need a Report from an independent Engineer, which can be expensive. The legal process is front end loaded in terms of preparatory work. That means the client needs to put a lot of money at risk from the outset. The majority of ordinary people are understandably unwilling to do this. As has been pointed out, your typical Legal Expenses Cover extension to your insurance is not intended to apply and even if it did the limit of cover will probably be too low to take the claim to court.

The other fundamental problem is that the Rules concerning recovery of costs (if you are successful) have changed, partly thanks to lobbying by the insurance industry. In the old days, as a rule of thumb, you expected to recover about two thirds of your costs from the losing party. Today you typically recover about a third, if that. It may not be cost-effective to enforce your legal rights via court action especially for claims that are less than £50k.

Maybe there could be a new forum, "legal matters" where people could discuss their problems and hopefully attract assistance from my learned friends?

Tricky - even if you give free legal advice, you are sticking your neck out because you can be sued for professional negligence. The ex-lawyer Funsters who are no longer in private practice may be prevented from advising "pro bono" by rules that insist they must have PI insurance cover. This is best left to the Citizens Advice Bureau, pro bono schemes operated by a few law firms (though you are likely to be helped by a Trainee), or possibly the Bar Free Representation Unit.

Except when you are requesting the basic legal advice service offered by the main Clubs you will probably be faced with a lawyer who knows nothing about motorhomes. Another hurdle.

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