Electrical problems, any ideas.

[Surfer 81]

We have a Fiat Ducato Van conversion which has served us well for 7 years. Recently the eclectics failed, repair did a good job it seemed but still blew rcd and electric point, especially in France. To try to resolve this had an inverter removed and new socket and consumer unit installed and also bought a new black cable in France, all tested. No problems connecting at home, but this trip to France has not been totally successful. First site, rcd blown and power point also, site maintenance came , plugged in, all OK. Next two sites fine. This site again both rcd tripped and power off. Tried a different power point, all OK. Any ideas please.

 

[Bandos]

In France, could it be that the phases at the electric hook up points had been reversed?

 

[BaileySteve]

Good point by Bandos. In France we had something similar on certain sites blowing the trips. Electrician was called and the caravan was earthing making the door frame live which we didn’t know at the time. He made some checks and ended putting the plug in upside down. Never did get to the bottom of it, but this was the solution for my parents at the time.

 

[pappajohn]

Bandos. . He made some checks and ended putting the plug in upside down.

So he reversed the polarity then

 

[BaileySteve]

So he reversed the polarity then

Yes, wasn’t funny at the time but we did laugh about him jumping around for many years later.

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[Surfer 81]

Good point by Bandos. In France we had something similar on certain sites blowing the trips. Electrician was called and the caravan was earthing making the door frame live which we didn’t know at the time. He made some checks and ended putting the plug in upside down. Never did get to the bottom of it, but this was the solution for my parents at the time.

Thanks, makes sense but how do you put an ECC plug in upside down..

 

[BaileySteve]

We had the French two pin plug to ECC adaptor at the time at it was 40 years ago. Could you get an ECC to French plug adapter and another the other way round which would allow it to be reversed?

 

[meanders]

I carry a short section (about half a metre) of ceeform male to ceeform female reverse wired that I pop in circuit if the detector shows reverse polarity. I made my own as I have also have had to use it for stage lighting in one UK venue (now corrected but the sparky wiring it needed a good dressing down), but at the price from https://toughleads.co.uk/ makes it virtually uneconomic to buy the parts unless you already have them.

Get one of these or similar to keep in the van. You can leave it plugged into a spare socket if you have one so you always have a visual check that all is OK on EHU.

 

[Rapido666F]

I had problems with an intermittent fault on my electrical water heater: sometimes the water would get hot and sometimes the ECB would trip. Someone suggested wear in the insulation which might or might not touch a metal frame, depending on how the van had shaken things around when I was driving.

 

[Surfer 81]

I carry a short section (about half a metre) of ceeform male to ceeform female reverse wired that I pop in circuit if the detector shows reverse polarity. I made my own as I have also have had to use it for stage lighting in one UK venue (now corrected but the sparky wiring it needed a good dressing down), but at the price from https://toughleads.co.uk/ makes it virtually uneconomic to buy the parts unless you already have them.

Get one of these or similar to keep in the van. You can leave it plugged into a spare socket if you have one so you always have a visual check that all is OK on EHU.

Thanks, this sounds like it may be the answer. I will see if there are any problems during an upcoming uk trip and if not it would suggest this is the case in France and I have a remedy.

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[Surfer 81]

In France, could it be that the phases at the electric hook up points had been reversed?

Thanks, this could be the problem.

 

[autorouter]

Thanks, this could be the problem.

I don't think it's the cause of the problem, it's just showing up a fault that's already there.

If the RCD trips, that means there is leakage to earth from the mains wires, either live or neutral. Maybe the insulation has degraded, worn/chaffed through etc. Or it could be a corroded element, with water getting into the element insulation and causing electrical leakage.

If the insulation degradation is between the neutral and earth, the voltage between neutral and earth is normally zero or very low, so not many milliamps will leak to earth. If less than 30 milliamps the RCD may not trip.

If the polarity (live/neutral) is reversed, then the insulation degradation is now between the live and earth, so more milliamps will leak to earth. If it's over 30 milliamps the RCD will trip.

So if the RCD trips when the polarity is reversed, there is a leakage fault that needs fixing.

Also, plugs in French sockets can't be inverted to reverse them. However the plugs in Spanish/German sockets (Schuko sockets) are reversible.

 

[Surfer 81]

I don't think it's the cause of the problem, it's just showing up a fault that's already there.

If the RCD trips, that means there is leakage to earth from the mains wires, either live or neutral. Maybe the insulation has degraded, worn/chaffed through etc. Or it could be a corroded element, with water getting into the element insulation and causing electrical leakage.

If the insulation degradation is between the neutral and earth, the voltage between neutral and earth is normally zero or very low, so not many milliamps will leak to earth. If less than 30 milliamps the RCD may not trip.

If the polarity (live/neutral) is reversed, then the insulation degradation is now between the live and earth, so more milliamps will leak to earth. If it's over 30 milliamps the RCD will trip.

So if the RCD trips when the polarity is reversed, there is a leakage fault that needs fixing.

Also, plugs in French sockets can't be inverted to reverse them. However the plugs in Spanish/German sockets (Schuko sockets) are reversible.

Autorouter. Thanks very much for that detailed explanation, appreciated. I now have something which I can take to the service company I use and hopefully fix the problem once and for all.

 

[Surfer 81]

Autorouter. Thanks very much for that detailed explanation, appreciated. I now have something which I can take to the service company I use and hopefully fix the problem once and for all.

Hi, if I could ask your opinion on one other thing, is the leakage more likely to be between socket and RCD or between RCD and plugs etc, Excuse my lack of knowledge with anything electrical.