The French Language

[DBK]

I'm trying to improve my French using the Duolingo app. Things are progressing although I'm far from fluent!

Then I come across something which I simply don't understand. Today's problem was this sentence:

Elle a été coupée et elle a beaucoup saigné

Which means "she was cut and she bled a lot".

In my answer I wrote saignée as the last word because the person cut is feminine but it says this is wrong and Google Translate agrees with Duolingo, it should be saigné and not saignée.

I'm confused! I know yodeli is very busy at the moment so I'm hoping someone else can explain why the feminine "e" is added to coupé but not saigné.

 

[Sue and Rick]

It's probably just like english, there are just some exceptions.
Im sure there will be a super french lady along soon to explain.

 

[Jane NotRog]

It’s because saigner takes avoir in the past tense, whereas couper, when reflexive, takes être. Avoir participles agree with a previous direct object, just to confuse you.

 

[Jane NotRog]

Also, apart from any reflexive verb, there is a short list of intransitive verbs that take être to form the past perfect - aller, arriver, descendre, etc

 

[Jane NotRog]

So it would be…

Elle est allée …

But

Elle a vu (not vue)

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[jongood]

I'm trying to improve my French using the Duolingo app. Things are progressing although I'm far from fluent!

Then I come across something which I simply don't understand. Today's problem was this sentence:

Elle a été coupée et elle a beaucoup saigné

Which means "she was cut and she bled a lot".

In my answer I wrote saignée as the last word because the person cut is feminine but it says this is wrong and Google Translate agrees with Duolingo, it should be saigné and not saignée.

I'm confused! I know yodeli is very busy at the moment so I'm hoping someone else can explain why the feminine "e" is added to coupé but not saigné.

Could you be overthinking this

 

[cliffanger]

Crikey I was just going to ask if ‘blood’ was masculine and that’s why it translated that way - after reading the explanations above it reinforces my thought as to why people want to speak English!

 

[Ridgeway]

There‘s so many “exceptions and rules“ in the French language that it‘s hard to learn beyond a certain point. Can check with the team here who have French as their first language but i guess it‘s a exception.

 

[Lenny HB]

As long as I can get a beer I'm happy, I think I'll leave it at that.

 

[BikerGraham]

As long as I can get a beer I'm happy, I think I'll leave it at that.

What else does one need to know

Multi lingual as can ask for a beer in a number of languages including Geordie

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[Jane NotRog]

If anyone’s interested… I get the feeling not

*Le participe passé* – the past participle in French

Le participe passé (the past participle) is an impersonal verb form that is mostly used to form compound tenses, such as the passé composé. We can also use past participles as adjectives. We form the participe passé of regular verbs by adding an ending to the verb stem, although there are many...

francais.lingolia.com

 

[Nyvern]

should really be "elle s'est coupée" not "elle a été coupé"...

 

[Ridgeway]

From No3 daughter, explained in her terrible English

Because with l'auxiliair avoir the partcipe passé doesn't conjugate with the subjet, It's only with the auxilaire
être.

For example:
Elle a mangé
Elle est occupée

Hope that helps

 

[MisterB]

i am sure that if you ever said that in a sentence to a french person, they would understand what you said, but perhaps not why you would want to say it LOL

 

[Montezuma]

Crikey I was just going to ask if ‘blood’ was masculine and that’s why it translated that way - after reading the explanations above it reinforces my thought as to why people want to speak English!

I am inclined to agree.

In French, 'Blood' is masculine, and the fact that it was a female that was cut, does not have any effect upon the gender of the blood - Le sang.

Could it not be that simple ?

Meanwhile: La plume de ma tante est dans le bureau de mon oncle - or maybe 'Le stylo' would be more up to date ?

Big fail in French GCE back in '59 - Speaking French with a Scouse accent was not easy.

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[cliffanger]

When handsome Julio was trying to teach us, his keep fit posse, Spanish during lockdown, he told us about Juan, a one armed, one legged blind man who had been unhappy (can you blame him).

Julio had been teaching us past and present verbs, and had then moved on to temporary and permanent! so I confidently translated the sentence with the permanent version of poor Juan’s situation.

I got a big ‘No’ from Julio who said the situation was ‘temporary’! I questioned this, as I was sure that medical science had not progressed so far as to regrow limbs - but Julio said that Juan could have lost his limbs in an accident (temporary) as opposed to being born like that (permanent) - at least I think that was his explanation for the cross and not the tick which I was expecting!

I said to him ‘Julio - this is why people love to speak English ….’ El Profesor was not happy!’

 

[bellabee]

Perfect explanations Jane And Rog .

 

[yodeli]

So it would be…

Elle est allée …

But

Elle a vu (not vue)

Hi!

Up to here this is correct BUT
Yes there's a but, it's not that easy

Let's take a simple sentence
J'ai acheté des fleurs I bought flowers

As you can see, using the verb (which in fact is called auxiliaire here) AVOIR , doesn't allow you to put "ées" at the end of acheter when past participle.
BUT if you say speaking of the very same flowers
Je LES ( them=flowers) ai achetéES here, ( I bought them)"LES" representing the flowers, and being before the verb AVOIR in the sentence, acheter takes ées at the end for flowers being feminine and plural

Is it clear ? or shall I say it differently

 

[yodeli]

coupé"...

COUPéE

 

[yodeli]

J'ai bu une bière
Je l'ai bue

J'ai mangé un poulet entier
Je l'ai mangé

J'ai cuisiné une paella
Je l'ai cuisinée

J'ai compris les leçons de français
Je les ai comprises

J'ai fait les courses
Je les ai faites

J'ai regardé les matchs de foot
Je les ai regardés

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[cliffanger]

Hi!

Up to here this is correct BUT
Yes there's a but, it's not that easy

Let's take a simple sentence
J'ai acheté des fleurs I bought flowers

As you can see, using the verb (which in fact is called auxiliaire here) AVOIR , doesn't allow you to put "ées" at the end of acheter when past participle.
BUT if you say speaking of the very same flowers
Je LES ( them=flowers) ai achetéES here, ( I bought them)"LES" representing the flowers, and being before the verb AVOIR in the sentence, acheter takes ées at the end for flowers being feminine and plural

Is it clear ? or shall I say it differently

Hi Frankie. Hope you’re ok and that your plans are all coming good.

I’m still as rubbish at French as ever, but I’m sure you’ve been able to help John DBK

 

[yodeli]

should really be "elle s'est coupée" not "elle a été coupé"...

Let's say that the second one would mean something like ... Jack the Ripper got her, and when we found her, we never found the head. I guess, "elle a été coupée" LOL !

 

[Phill D]

Gee’s I can’t even understand the English explanations, I have no chance!

 

[Jane NotRog]

Hi!

Up to here this is correct BUT
Yes there's a but, it's not that easy

Let's take a simple sentence
J'ai acheté des fleurs I bought flowers

As you can see, using the verb (which in fact is called auxiliaire here) AVOIR , doesn't allow you to put "ées" at the end of acheter when past participle.
BUT if you say speaking of the very same flowers
Je LES ( them=flowers) ai achetéES here, ( I bought them)"LES" representing the flowers, and being before the verb AVOIR in the sentence, acheter takes ées at the end for flowers being feminine and plural

Is it clear ? or shall I say it differently

Yeah, that was what I was trying to say when I said “Avoir participles agree with a previous direct object” - but I didn’t say it as clearly as you!

 

[sciac2001]

I’m sure Chris would know….

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[DBK]

Many thanks yodeli and everyone else. I'm not sure I understand it fully but as I am probably never going to need written French I suspect I will manage. This applies to a lot of French, the correct endings are spelt differently but many of them sound the same so you can get away with it in the spoken language.

 

[offagen]

The standout French phrase I learned from Duolingo was "There's a cow in my living room", which I've found very useful on many occasions. Sadly, the responses have been mixed.

 

[Jane NotRog]

When I briefly studied French with the OU they recommended using one of the conversation / language exchange apps to find a partner. You’d help a French person who wants to improve their English and vice versa. Might be more beneficial than Duolingo?

 

[jongood]

When handsome Julio was trying to teach us, his keep fit posse, Spanish during lockdown, he told us about Juan, a one armed, one legged blind man who had been unhappy (can you blame him).

Julio had been teaching us past and present verbs, and had then moved on to temporary and permanent! so I confidently translated the sentence with the permanent version of poor Juan’s situation.

I got a big ‘No’ from Julio who said the situation was ‘temporary’! I questioned this, as I was sure that medical science had not progressed so far as to regrow limbs - but Julio said that Juan could have lost his limbs in an accident (temporary) as opposed to being born like that (permanent) - at least I think that was his explanation for the cross and not the tick which I was expecting!

I said to him ‘Julio - this is why people love to speak English ….’ El Profesor was not happy!’

I had a conversation with a Spanish teacher who was criticising the English language where words like tough and trough can have totally different sounds with the same spelling. My reply was that at least we dont have to worry about the gender of a table!

 

[Jane NotRog]

I had a conversation with a Spanish teacher who was criticising the English language where words like tough and trough can have totally different sounds with the same spelling. My reply was that at least we dont have to worry about the gender of a table!

Yeah, it’s like that thing where “ghoti” is pronounced “fish.”

• gh = f as in rouGH
• o = i as in wOmen
• ti = sh as in naTIon

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