1. Untitled Document

free elecy..

Discussion in 'TECH/MECH GENERAL' started by bungy, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. bungy

    bungy Funster

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  2. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

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    With the amount of liquid of various vintages that is consumed at any Fun meet there should be ample supplies to fuel a mini-village:Rofl1::Rofl1:

    Peter
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  3. jhorsf

    jhorsf Read Only Funster

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    They already tax you on sewerage now this will be a new tax on P
  4. bungy

    bungy Funster

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    literally taking the P**s then:Rofl1:
  5. ScotJimland

    ScotJimland Funster

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    and the cell is powered by what ????
  6. bungy

    bungy Funster

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    battery, solar power, another generator or the same gennie....

    to quote a CNET reporter

    "The four African teens likely are the youngest researchers yet to dabble in pee as power. Skepticism aside, can we all just agree that the foursome should be lauded for their efforts to find alternative power sources on a continent that could really use them? Sheesh. When I was 14, I'm pretty sure I was too busy watching TV to concern myself with hydrogen extraction."
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  7. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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  8. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster

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    I just don't believe it.

    Can you imagine how much hydrogen would be consumed in 6 hours.

    Just wait.......

    Dear Sir,

    You will have seen our incredible invention on the news, we need investors to market this generator worldwide. Just send £10000 to Bank of Nigeria, account 33886684 for a 10% stake in the world's fastest growing company.
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  9. Minx

    Minx Funster

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    I like the last sentence on the article:

    .... no change there then ... same when hubby's been to the loo and all the windows need opening to prevent a big bang!!!!!:Rofl1:
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  10. ScotJimland

    ScotJimland Funster

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    so... let me see ,

    * we use a battery to power a cell that produces hydrogen that runs a genny to charge a battery that runs a cell... so even if it were 100% efficient, which is impossible.. .. what's the point .. ?

    * solar panel or wind turbine.. to power a cell that produces hydrogen to run a genny that produces less energy than what was supplied by the source .. .. :Doh:

    we use the same genny to power a cell....etc ... perpetual motion ..

    Unity power can't achieved .. the laws of thermodynamics say so... or just ask Chris Green :Laughing:

    bottom line..
    The basic laws of physics.. energy can not be produced.. it can only be converted from one form to another.. and there are always losses.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2012
  11. Reallyretired

    Reallyretired Funster

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    You're assuming that the amount of electricity is equal to that required to electrolyse hydrogen from water.

    Not necessarily so;

    Urea—the major constituent of urine—has four hydrogen atoms per molecule ((NH2)2CO) which are less tightly bonded than the hydrogen atoms in water molecules. A voltage of 0.37V is required to split the molecule, compared to the 1.23V needed to split water.

    During the process, urea is adsorbed on to the nickel electrode surface, which passes the electrons needed to break up the molecule. Pure hydrogen is evolved at the cathode, while nitrogen plus a trace of oxygen and hydrogen are collected at the cathode*. Carbon dioxide generated during the reaction reacts with potassium hydroxide in the solution to form potassium carbonate. (From Green Car Congress - not an impartial source really)

    The Royal Society of Chemistry is reputable however but charge £34 for their article on the subject, however they do consider it a possibility, at least experimentally.

    The laws of thermodynamics are not relevant as there is an energy source in addition to electricity - the urea which is consumed in the process.

    * Although cut and pasted I suspect a typo - should be anode
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2012
  12. ScotJimland

    ScotJimland Funster

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    it's an interesting discussion .. but the laws of thermodynamics are always relevant and cannot be ignored..

    the urea is not a fuel source.. it is an energy carrier... just as water is.. and because of the laws of thermodynamics, it will always take more energy to extract hydrogen than it can produce.. it may be more efficient using urea than water but can never be 100% efficient ..

    Maybe one day, hydrogen will be produced at solar or wind plants located near the ocean that also operate as desalination plants.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2012
  13. Reallyretired

    Reallyretired Funster

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    Here you are Jim, hopefully you can get this without registering. In this setup the urea is broken down by bacteria rather than electricity. In effect a sort of biomass fuel using urea as the food source. The conversion is effectively urine to electricity, though currently the equipment to process even the urine of one person would be to large to be portable, no doubt something more portable may be possible in time.

    A reputable source:Smile:

    http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/pdf/article/2012/cp/c1cp23213d
  14. Reallyretired

    Reallyretired Funster

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    Sorry Jim, I've just checked and you will need to register to read it.
  15. ScotJimland

    ScotJimland Funster

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    thanks. .. but can't log in.. :Sad:

    but, is that not a different process/technology to hydrogen extraction using electrolysis ?

    Slightly off topic but along the same lines..

    I recall some while back a discussion on RVOC about improving MPG by injecting hydrogen into the diesel, generated from a cell using water and leccy from the vehicle .. some were convinced it worked.. but it can't, because Quote "the electrolytic cell drains current from the vehicles electrical system causing an increase in mechanical resistance in the alternator that will always result in a net power reduction" unquote

    from wiki
    Monetary prizes have been offered to sellers or promoters of these devices to demonstrate their claims of increased fuel economy are true (see US$1,000 Water Car Challenge), with very few sellers taking the challenges and no device passing the challenges.


    EDIT .. just read your post.. no problem, thanks for trying
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2012
  16. Reallyretired

    Reallyretired Funster

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    A different process, but the urea is still acting as a fuel, i.e. an energy source, so there is a possibility that the electrolysis of urea may produce more energy, in the form of Hydrogen, than it takes for the reaction. If the bacteria can use it as an energy source then the reaction must be exothermic to a degree.
    I beleive it is possible to generate electricity from urine, but I suspect the technology may be beyond the ability of those schoolgirls it is the :dm:after all
  17. ScotJimland

    ScotJimland Funster

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    I'll keep an open mind then.. :Laughing:

    good discussion.. a change from A frames and the like :Wink:
  18. darklord

    darklord

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    Ah, the Daily Mail. They did a hygene study into the amount of items we touch in a day that transfer sh*t to our hands. I was ready to question this, knowing how clean our home is,......when I realiased I had just been holding a Daily Mail.
  19. bungy

    bungy Funster

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  20. sedge

    sedge

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    Gosh - with what I produce overnight I could likely power Bed'th and some parts of Ash Green.

    Interesting, bacterial action. Wonder if the hydrogen production would be higher if you was diabetic when your blood glucose was so high (ie in excess of 10% which causes damage to organs etc) and therefore, the glucose spills over into your pee?

    I ask this because the NHS and the Daily Mail etc are always telling us how much diabetic complications are costing us all; this way maybe the hospitals treating the uncontrolled Diabetics could recoup the cost on what they saved on electrickery !

    :Laughing:

    Much cheaper than educating the poor sods, after all ......
    3 people like this.

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